Hondaelise conversions
Discussion
I have been thinking about this conversion for an S1 elise for a while now...really like the idea of the SC version.
Can anyone give their experience in terms of reliability/running costs/performance improvements.
There is a testimonial on the Hondaelise website, but I would trust the feedback from this forum more.
Thanks
Mark
Can anyone give their experience in terms of reliability/running costs/performance improvements.
There is a testimonial on the Hondaelise website, but I would trust the feedback from this forum more.
Thanks
Mark
The better conversions are fairly mature these days, I think the main issue that most talk about is drive shafts.
If you're looking at supercharging and the likes then the scope for issues probably goes up.
I believe Scuffers is the resident expert on here, and plenty others with first hand knowledge of the conversion.
If you're looking at supercharging and the likes then the scope for issues probably goes up.
I believe Scuffers is the resident expert on here, and plenty others with first hand knowledge of the conversion.
My experiance was on a S2 Honda conversion by Maidstone sportscars. Car was originally a '53' reg S2 111S. I bought it off the original owner who paid for the conversion. It was totally reliable. It wasn't supercharged but was very fast with a cam change at 4,250rpm and off the rev counter limiter of 8,500rpm. Fuel consumption was 36mpg, brillant for the supercar performance. Tyres seem to last ok but I had two sets so difficult to quantify. My car had 189bhp at the wheels so around 210 at the flywheel. My car weighed 805kg with half a tank of fuel and all the creature comforts of a 111S. I can imagine in a S1 this conversion would be outstanding.
Thorburn said:
The better conversions are fairly mature these days, I think the main issue that most talk about is drive shafts.
A friend describes the drive shafts on his S1 Honda Exige as a service item and if you plan on having the conversion done you need to know how to put them back in at the side of the track as you will be often.did 55K post conversion miles in my old SC Honda Elise, many trackdays, sprints, touring Europe, Lemans etc etc
it was fantastic and I will have another one day...when I can get in/out easy enough again
It was a Linkup conversion done by Maidstonesportscars back in 2005
no real issues, no driveshaft probs...in fact zero probs with the conversion itself....I had a MFRU (relay) go down once, but thats an old Rover part left over from the K series install...cost me £25 for a new one
it was fantastic and I will have another one day...when I can get in/out easy enough again
It was a Linkup conversion done by Maidstonesportscars back in 2005
no real issues, no driveshaft probs...in fact zero probs with the conversion itself....I had a MFRU (relay) go down once, but thats an old Rover part left over from the K series install...cost me £25 for a new one
S1 Honda owner here. I've had the o/s inner drive shaft boot letting go. What you need is to ensure that there's plenty of numbus heat shielding round this area, as its very close to the manifold.
I've had 2 Honda cars, my first being an S2 which caused me no bother. My second and current car was an early conversion, with many early/prototype parts on it. Many of these have failed and required updating by the converter, Sinclaires, although they've done alot of this at cost or FOC. The cars now 100% 2009/2010 spec.
I've never been interested in supercharging any of my cars, choosing to enjoy the N/A set up for fast road use, European trips and trackdays.
The reliability aspect relies upon how hard people drive them and under what conditions. A 5k pa car thats wheeled out at the weekends will not be subjected to the riggers of TD's etc. Assuming you buy a pre-converted car, which is far cheaper than doing via a converter, my advice would be to ensure the car has been very well maintained (critical in my opionion) and if an early conversion, that it's had the conversion parts updated to the latest spec.
If you plan to convert you current car, then make sure it has plenty of Nimbus heat sheilding!
Other than that, they're absolutely fatastic cars which for the level of performance are cheap to run & maintain. Porsche GT3 performance (S1 N/A) for pocket money running costs.
There's nothing quite like surprising some real exotica in a plastic bath tub
I've had 2 Honda cars, my first being an S2 which caused me no bother. My second and current car was an early conversion, with many early/prototype parts on it. Many of these have failed and required updating by the converter, Sinclaires, although they've done alot of this at cost or FOC. The cars now 100% 2009/2010 spec.
I've never been interested in supercharging any of my cars, choosing to enjoy the N/A set up for fast road use, European trips and trackdays.
The reliability aspect relies upon how hard people drive them and under what conditions. A 5k pa car thats wheeled out at the weekends will not be subjected to the riggers of TD's etc. Assuming you buy a pre-converted car, which is far cheaper than doing via a converter, my advice would be to ensure the car has been very well maintained (critical in my opionion) and if an early conversion, that it's had the conversion parts updated to the latest spec.
If you plan to convert you current car, then make sure it has plenty of Nimbus heat sheilding!
Other than that, they're absolutely fatastic cars which for the level of performance are cheap to run & maintain. Porsche GT3 performance (S1 N/A) for pocket money running costs.
There's nothing quite like surprising some real exotica in a plastic bath tub
Edited by 4pot on Friday 15th October 11:28
Another S1 Link-up conversion here. Done 18 months ago by Hofmanns.
Doing 20k miles pa, used as the everyday whatever the weather.
No issues at all with the conversation and reliability of the car. 230bhp and absolutely fantastic performance and sound.
80miles round trip to work with a lot of m/w and open A road, if driven sensibly will return over 40mpg - typically getting over 39.
You can drive normally to/from work without hitting 4000rpm and it got more go that the K series in that range, go over the 4000 mark and it's just amazing, such a different league.
I had the heat shielding fitted, essential ready as 4pot says. Also had the 4-1 exhaust manifold and oil cooler, as the plan was to SC.
If it's for road use and the occasional track day you don't need the SC. Test drove the 380bhp S2 Exige at MSC the other week and even in 4th, it didn't feel as though it ran through the rev range any quicker. I do need to get round to speaking to Andrew/Simon about that. Also the sound of the NA engine is fabulous if SC’ed it’s replaced with a excellent whistle but I’m not sure it’s better
All the above said I’m thinking of getting different - longer - gear ratios fitted and the SC so I don't feel I lost any performance!
Only grumble is between 2500-3000rpm it does find things to vibrate, ie wire mesh in the boot lid, door cards and now something else behind me?!?! Sorting this isn't an issue once you know what it is!
Try and get a ride/drive in NA and SC and see what you think, also don’t forget the suspension, if you forget the SC that money would pay for the refurb and if this hasn’t been done already on an S1, it’s going to want it.
Finally, do it! I always had a grin on my face in the Elise now it’s a lot bigger!
Doing 20k miles pa, used as the everyday whatever the weather.
No issues at all with the conversation and reliability of the car. 230bhp and absolutely fantastic performance and sound.
80miles round trip to work with a lot of m/w and open A road, if driven sensibly will return over 40mpg - typically getting over 39.
You can drive normally to/from work without hitting 4000rpm and it got more go that the K series in that range, go over the 4000 mark and it's just amazing, such a different league.
I had the heat shielding fitted, essential ready as 4pot says. Also had the 4-1 exhaust manifold and oil cooler, as the plan was to SC.
If it's for road use and the occasional track day you don't need the SC. Test drove the 380bhp S2 Exige at MSC the other week and even in 4th, it didn't feel as though it ran through the rev range any quicker. I do need to get round to speaking to Andrew/Simon about that. Also the sound of the NA engine is fabulous if SC’ed it’s replaced with a excellent whistle but I’m not sure it’s better
All the above said I’m thinking of getting different - longer - gear ratios fitted and the SC so I don't feel I lost any performance!
Only grumble is between 2500-3000rpm it does find things to vibrate, ie wire mesh in the boot lid, door cards and now something else behind me?!?! Sorting this isn't an issue once you know what it is!
Try and get a ride/drive in NA and SC and see what you think, also don’t forget the suspension, if you forget the SC that money would pay for the refurb and if this hasn’t been done already on an S1, it’s going to want it.
Finally, do it! I always had a grin on my face in the Elise now it’s a lot bigger!
4pot said:
The reliability aspect relies upon how hard people drive them and under what conditions. A 5k pa car thats wheeled out at the weekends will not be subjected to the riggers of TD's etc.
What he said...at the end of the day, whist they can be as reliable a road car as any other, you cannot expect a car that spends it's like going hard trackdays to be maintenance-free.
Some comments to cover what's already been picked up on:
1) Drive-shafts, well, it's actually not the shafts that are the issue (can only speak for Link-up ones here), the issues relate to the joints.
back in the early days, we used to use the Lotus/Rover CV joints, however, with over double the power put though them, they could be problematic with track-run cars + Superchargers, what was happening is that with 1+ hours constant use, they would over-heat, boil the grease out, then basically lunch the joint.
we then went on to use a bigger CV joint that still fitted the std Lotus hubs/uprights, these were stronger, however, with the track-cars, again at ~2+ hours continues use, would do the same, just takling somewhat longer to reach this point (it's fair to say here that almost nobody actually managed this as 2+ hours solid running really does take some doing).
we then were put on to some high-spec grease/paste for the CV's, at which point the problem went away, only to come back and haunt in ~2007 when GKN (in their infinite wisdom) started supplying a batch of CV's that were massive tight from new, and whist on a road car these were fine and would wear in over time, on a track car they just cooked first time out (without the opportunity to run-in). This took a while to work out and resolve (not helped by GKN it has to be said).
Nower days this is not a problem as we source these via another route that had much stricter QA, so we don't get into these issues again.
inner joints are Honda OEM, and once again, these have proven fine when used with the right grease.
only real issues now are with the fit of them, they needs to be built-up and installed right, if the boot's are not correct, then you will have issues, however, once done right, and they have settled down, they will last for years.
2) heat shielding.
This is once again as much down to use and car as anything else, a road car is never going to get that hot, so realistically, the std Lotus heat shields are fine, the problems come when (A) the OEM ones have fallen apart though age etc, and (B) track cars where the cars still have a CAT fitted. The answer is really down to specific cars, if the OEM stuff is still in good condition, then for a road car it's fine, but if you have a SC car and plan on tracking it hard, then the heat shielding needs to be looked at as a maintenance item.
If the cars are looked after and maintained properly (even if that just means doing proper regular inspections), they will run and run without issues, but as with most stuff, abuse it and don't maintain them, they will have issues sooner or later.
I've been looking at swapping my S1 Elise for an Exige 350 Sport or even an Ariel Atom. My other option is to have my Elise converted to Honda power, probably super charged.
Does anyone know the cost for such conversion, not just engine but all the other bits that go with it. I want pretty much the perfect spec Elise for track and occasional road use. Possibly the annual Le Mans trip.
I'm think it'll be around £20k.
Has anyone got a similar speced car? What are the must haves for me that I'll need outside the basic package?
Does anyone know the cost for such conversion, not just engine but all the other bits that go with it. I want pretty much the perfect spec Elise for track and occasional road use. Possibly the annual Le Mans trip.
I'm think it'll be around £20k.
Has anyone got a similar speced car? What are the must haves for me that I'll need outside the basic package?
Nick J said:
I've been looking at swapping my S1 Elise for an Exige 350 Sport or even an Ariel Atom. My other option is to have my Elise converted to Honda power, probably super charged.
Does anyone know the cost for such conversion, not just engine but all the other bits that go with it. I want pretty much the perfect spec Elise for track and occasional road use. Possibly the annual Le Mans trip.
I'm think it'll be around £20k.
Has anyone got a similar speced car? What are the must haves for me that I'll need outside the basic package?
A basic n/a conversion costs just over £11k at MSC and £13.5k at HPE.Does anyone know the cost for such conversion, not just engine but all the other bits that go with it. I want pretty much the perfect spec Elise for track and occasional road use. Possibly the annual Le Mans trip.
I'm think it'll be around £20k.
Has anyone got a similar speced car? What are the must haves for me that I'll need outside the basic package?
It all depends if you also need to do the suspension upgrade/refresh, ally rad, brakes, arb, oil cooler,harnesses etc etc
Having just been through the costs at length myself I'd say £20k conversion cost will cover you well for an excellent n/a
To supercharge it then add ~ £4k for a JRSC then another ~ £3k for the chargecooler.
Personally I'm an n/a fan all day long so that's what I'm about to buy
The Bandit said:
To supercharge it then add ~ £4k for a JRSC then another ~ £3k for the chargecooler.
http://www.tts-performance.co.uk/lotus-eliseSpeak to TTS about their Rotrex supercharger conversions.
For a £4k you can get the smaller C30 charger kit or a bit more gets you the "race" spec supercharger kit with the C38 charger capable of 400+hp.
The Bandit said:
Nick J said:
I've been looking at swapping my S1 Elise for an Exige 350 Sport or even an Ariel Atom. My other option is to have my Elise converted to Honda power, probably super charged.
Does anyone know the cost for such conversion, not just engine but all the other bits that go with it. I want pretty much the perfect spec Elise for track and occasional road use. Possibly the annual Le Mans trip.
I'm think it'll be around £20k.
Has anyone got a similar speced car? What are the must haves for me that I'll need outside the basic package?
A basic n/a conversion costs just over £11k at MSC and £13.5k at HPE.Does anyone know the cost for such conversion, not just engine but all the other bits that go with it. I want pretty much the perfect spec Elise for track and occasional road use. Possibly the annual Le Mans trip.
I'm think it'll be around £20k.
Has anyone got a similar speced car? What are the must haves for me that I'll need outside the basic package?
It all depends if you also need to do the suspension upgrade/refresh, ally rad, brakes, arb, oil cooler,harnesses etc etc
Having just been through the costs at length myself I'd say £20k conversion cost will cover you well for an excellent n/a
To supercharge it then add ~ £4k for a JRSC then another ~ £3k for the chargecooler.
Personally I'm an n/a fan all day long so that's what I'm about to buy
Brakes are braided lines, with vented discs and some uprated pads, but I suspect they may need to be upgraded.
It's also just been for a full body off respray, which started off as getting the stone chips sorted and is now a £6k paint job.
I'm keen for the supercharged one. If it's just over £20k I can live with that.
Nick J said:
The Bandit said:
Nick J said:
I've been looking at swapping my S1 Elise for an Exige 350 Sport or even an Ariel Atom. My other option is to have my Elise converted to Honda power, probably super charged.
Does anyone know the cost for such conversion, not just engine but all the other bits that go with it. I want pretty much the perfect spec Elise for track and occasional road use. Possibly the annual Le Mans trip.
I'm think it'll be around £20k.
Has anyone got a similar speced car? What are the must haves for me that I'll need outside the basic package?
A basic n/a conversion costs just over £11k at MSC and £13.5k at HPE.Does anyone know the cost for such conversion, not just engine but all the other bits that go with it. I want pretty much the perfect spec Elise for track and occasional road use. Possibly the annual Le Mans trip.
I'm think it'll be around £20k.
Has anyone got a similar speced car? What are the must haves for me that I'll need outside the basic package?
It all depends if you also need to do the suspension upgrade/refresh, ally rad, brakes, arb, oil cooler,harnesses etc etc
Having just been through the costs at length myself I'd say £20k conversion cost will cover you well for an excellent n/a
To supercharge it then add ~ £4k for a JRSC then another ~ £3k for the chargecooler.
Personally I'm an n/a fan all day long so that's what I'm about to buy
Brakes are braided lines, with vented discs and some uprated pads, but I suspect they may need to be upgraded.
It's also just been for a full body off respray, which started off as getting the stone chips sorted and is now a £6k paint job.
I'm keen for the supercharged one. If it's just over £20k I can live with that.
More you spend, the faster you can go
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