Discussion
Dear oh dear you lot! Some of these stories are just that - stories.
Let's start with Nigel's D-type shall we? XKD 504 was taken to Lynx for a rebuild and in so doing lynx found a small piece stamped XKD 505. The latter was the 1955 Le Mans-winning D-type, known to have been dismantled for parts afterwards. Lynx built a complete new car around the one surviving piece of XKD 505. Then in 2001 at Rockingham the car came up for sale, and it took several firms of solicitors to word the catalogue, ending up with a word that has entered into the salesman's patter. "A wonderful evocation of the 1955 Le Mans winning Jaguar D-type" Nigel, a good friend of mine, always absolutely mad about Hawthorn, bought it and to his credit has campaigned it ever since, with Wyn Percy, Johnny Herbert and others at the wheel. His plate is 774 RW, which at the time was a trade plate and had been on a C-type beforehand. However - and this may be apocryphal but I don't think so - I heard that Nigel was driving along one day and spotted a Midget with the plate 774RW. Nigel's car could only use it on the track since it wasn't the current correct plate. Anyway, the story goes that Nigel stopped the youngster at the wheel of the Midget and "made him an offer he couldn't refuse". Hence, the care now actually owns its original plate. Oh, and XKD 603 also wore 774 RW and was owned by Sir Anthony Bamford but is now I believe sold on.
032 RW is another trade plate (the red is the giveaway) and it is correct, whereas no ordinary plate would have the 0 in front of the 32. It was and is the last D-type made, XKD 606 and was to have raced at Le Mans in 1956 (the first "6" in the D-type's chassis number indicates the year of build as 1956) but was crashed in practice by desmond Titterington, who also wrecked 604 at Silverstone before it. The car was repaired, sold on to ecurie ecosse and is now the most valuable |D-type on the planet, wearing the number plate RSF 301, the 1957 Flockhart/Bueb.
But back to 032 RW. I believe, but am not sure, that it was also worn by XKD 604 which Titterington wrecked at Silverstone, which "exists" in California. I met the owner at Le Mans having corresponded with him. He insists it is the "gen-u-wine thang" but sadly I disagree. It can never have a heritage certificate as proof from the archives that it is the genuine article, and I don't want to create controversy by printing what I know about the history between 1956 and 1990. Anyway, here it is:-
Now the car above could be the 1955 XKD 506, since it wore the plate 032 RW - but it isn't since that car was scrapped. To end the story I know which one the above is, but for the moment the memory fails me!
More anon.
ETA. And Lord Brett, I'd love to know how that photo ended up on Thumbsnap, since the only way it could have done is if someone has copied it from my Photobucket account and put it on their site. I took that during the Classic.
Let's start with Nigel's D-type shall we? XKD 504 was taken to Lynx for a rebuild and in so doing lynx found a small piece stamped XKD 505. The latter was the 1955 Le Mans-winning D-type, known to have been dismantled for parts afterwards. Lynx built a complete new car around the one surviving piece of XKD 505. Then in 2001 at Rockingham the car came up for sale, and it took several firms of solicitors to word the catalogue, ending up with a word that has entered into the salesman's patter. "A wonderful evocation of the 1955 Le Mans winning Jaguar D-type" Nigel, a good friend of mine, always absolutely mad about Hawthorn, bought it and to his credit has campaigned it ever since, with Wyn Percy, Johnny Herbert and others at the wheel. His plate is 774 RW, which at the time was a trade plate and had been on a C-type beforehand. However - and this may be apocryphal but I don't think so - I heard that Nigel was driving along one day and spotted a Midget with the plate 774RW. Nigel's car could only use it on the track since it wasn't the current correct plate. Anyway, the story goes that Nigel stopped the youngster at the wheel of the Midget and "made him an offer he couldn't refuse". Hence, the care now actually owns its original plate. Oh, and XKD 603 also wore 774 RW and was owned by Sir Anthony Bamford but is now I believe sold on.
032 RW is another trade plate (the red is the giveaway) and it is correct, whereas no ordinary plate would have the 0 in front of the 32. It was and is the last D-type made, XKD 606 and was to have raced at Le Mans in 1956 (the first "6" in the D-type's chassis number indicates the year of build as 1956) but was crashed in practice by desmond Titterington, who also wrecked 604 at Silverstone before it. The car was repaired, sold on to ecurie ecosse and is now the most valuable |D-type on the planet, wearing the number plate RSF 301, the 1957 Flockhart/Bueb.
But back to 032 RW. I believe, but am not sure, that it was also worn by XKD 604 which Titterington wrecked at Silverstone, which "exists" in California. I met the owner at Le Mans having corresponded with him. He insists it is the "gen-u-wine thang" but sadly I disagree. It can never have a heritage certificate as proof from the archives that it is the genuine article, and I don't want to create controversy by printing what I know about the history between 1956 and 1990. Anyway, here it is:-
Now the car above could be the 1955 XKD 506, since it wore the plate 032 RW - but it isn't since that car was scrapped. To end the story I know which one the above is, but for the moment the memory fails me!
More anon.
ETA. And Lord Brett, I'd love to know how that photo ended up on Thumbsnap, since the only way it could have done is if someone has copied it from my Photobucket account and put it on their site. I took that during the Classic.
Edited by lowdrag on Thursday 26th January 18:13
Thanks for that Tony, I knew you would have the info. Its still as clear as mud to my old grey cells though 
I'm interested in your comment though "Let's start with Nigel's D-type shall we? XKD 504 was taken to Lynx for a rebuild and in so doing lynx found a small piece stamped XKD 505. The latter was the 1955 Le Mans-winning D-type, known to have been dismantled for parts afterwards. Lynx built a complete new car around the one surviving piece of XKD 505."
I am right in saying then that the only piece of the car which is currently registered as 774 RW and touted as the 1955 Le Mans Winner that has ever been near Le Mans in the 50s is a small piece stamped XKD 505?
The engine, gearbox, chassis, front and rear suspension on 774 RW aren't from the actual car that won Le Mans in 1955??
Re: your photo (and apologies for the non credit) was found by Google Images for 774 RW.
regards LBS
I'm interested in your comment though "Let's start with Nigel's D-type shall we? XKD 504 was taken to Lynx for a rebuild and in so doing lynx found a small piece stamped XKD 505. The latter was the 1955 Le Mans-winning D-type, known to have been dismantled for parts afterwards. Lynx built a complete new car around the one surviving piece of XKD 505."
I am right in saying then that the only piece of the car which is currently registered as 774 RW and touted as the 1955 Le Mans Winner that has ever been near Le Mans in the 50s is a small piece stamped XKD 505?
The engine, gearbox, chassis, front and rear suspension on 774 RW aren't from the actual car that won Le Mans in 1955??
Re: your photo (and apologies for the non credit) was found by Google Images for 774 RW.
regards LBS
LordBretSinclair said:
I am right in saying then that the only piece of the car which is currently registered as 774 RW and touted as the 1955 Le Mans Winner that has ever been near Le Mans in the 50s is a small piece stamped XKD 505?
The engine, gearbox, chassis, front and rear suspension on 774 RW aren't from the actual car that won Le Mans in 1955??
regards LBS
Correct. I quote from the Philip Porter book "Jaguar Sports Racing Cars":-The engine, gearbox, chassis, front and rear suspension on 774 RW aren't from the actual car that won Le Mans in 1955??
regards LBS
XKD 504.............1981, sold to Paul Vestey (Dewhirsts Butchers fame) rebuilt with new frame. XKD 505 frame removed and sold to Bill Lake; used for Mille Miglia twice with Adrian Hamilton as co-driver; 1991 Spa, Nigel Corner; Magny Cours, Gary Pearson, crashed; 1994 original frame purchased from Peter Sutcliffe and refitted.
XKD 505.............until June 1958; history then vague; it has been stated that parts of this car were reused in the rebuild of XKD 601 and that there is no record of XKD 505 having been sold; however, the list of experimental cars states "XKD 505, BRG, sold"; early 1980s frame stamped XKD 505 removed from XKD 504 during rebuild by Lynx and sold to the late Bill Lake, who had an authentic car built up around this frame with a real monocoque; sold to David Lomas (UK)
It can therefore be clearly demonstrated that all that exists of the original XKD 505 is this part of the chassis. The price paid by Nigel in 2001 reflected this, being around (I forget accurately) £420,000. A "real" D-type would have even then been around £1 million.
The contentious part is what and what is not a real D-type. I go with the JDHT and accept "a car with continuous history", and 505 and 604 don't have this, having in one case popped out of the woodwork with a 34 year gap and in the case of 505 a documented history of a rebuild around one original piece, with an original monocoque and original parts, but parts that didn't come from the original car.
Let us not forget either that there isn't a "real" D-type out there anywhere in the world. They've all had accidents, been rebuilt, cannabalised, parts swapped, and during the 60s and 70s no one gave a hoot - they were just passé racing cars that were no longer competetive.
Edited by lowdrag on Thursday 26th January 21:22
lowdrag said:
Let us not forget either that there isn't a "real" D-type out there anywhere in the world. They've all had accidents, been rebuilt, cannabalised, parts swapped, and during the 60s and 70s no one gave a hoot - they were just passé racing cars that were no longer competetive.
I thought XKD509 was supposed to be very original or am I being naive?Edited by lowdrag on Thursday 26th January 21:22
No you're not - that is the "Willie Eckerslike" car that didn't see a road for many a long year. I forget who it was sold to, but it did have quite a racing history and must have had bits changed, but there seems no record of accident damage, so I yield. My comment was generic though, not specific. Andrew Whyte, going back to 505, states that "...hence the probability of parts turning up in other cars, notably 601 and 504. New long-nose style car built by RS Panels and Lynx using sub-frame numbered 505 (owned by Bill Lake) in early 80s."
verminator said:
However many 'real' parts are left, lets face it Nigel has had the last laugh cause it's now worth a s**t load of dosh.
Yes he has, mainly because commentators at Goodwood and such like continue to put out on the Tannoy "and here we have the actual car that won Le Mans in 1955". No one seems to have the balls to correct this myth. 
AndrewIC said:
I think it would be hard to find any racing car of the period that is 100% original no matter what marque.
Indeed. And technically, what is the difference between Nigel's car and a 'works' car that has been progressively repaired/restored to the point that there are now very few original parts left? They are essentially the same, but the 'works' car will always be more valuable because its continuous known history demonstrates that (since manufacture) it has always existed and therefore has title and provenance. The illusion is that what you see in front of you today, is the exact car that crossed the line in 56, 57 or whatever. And that frankly, is (usually) good enough for me. I watched E-type lightweight 5 WPD suffer (what looked to be)extensive damage at the Revival last year but I will find it no less mesmerising next time I see it. New parts and all. 
lowdrag said:
you mean that "woman driver" who demolished the chicane? She didn't do badly with the car either
Ha Ha! Yes, I didn't want to say that! took her a couple of tries as well as I recall... I see what you mean about her being lucky, that would have been very nasty.LotusOmega375D, not too sure about 2 GXO (by which I mean I don't know!) but the ex-salvadori lightweight 86 PJ is purported to be very original, and quite stunning. pic I took of it at the revival last year
Edited by stuarte on Friday 27th January 16:54
stuarte said:
AndrewIC said:
I think it would be hard to find any racing car of the period that is 100% original no matter what marque.
Indeed. And technically, what is the difference between Nigel's car and a 'works' car that has been progressively repaired/restored to the point that there are now very few original parts left? They are essentially the same, but the 'works' car will always be more valuable because its continuous known history demonstrates that (since manufacture) it has always existed and therefore has title and provenance. The illusion is that what you see in front of you today, is the exact car that crossed the line in 56, 57 or whatever. And that frankly, is (usually) good enough for me. I watched E-type lightweight 5 WPD suffer (what looked to be)extensive damage at the Revival last year but I will find it no less mesmerising next time I see it. New parts and all. Great thread and perhaps a little off topic. A little while back having just got home from work. My better half greets me and says you've got to buy me one of these. Please I really want one. I'm sick to death of Smart Cars. It was either JDC mag or Octane but on the front cover was a picture of steve mcqueen and his xkss. I said there manual gearbox only. Oh bugger she says (she only has an automatic license). She also fell in love with an xk140 coupe in white with monte carlo plates at a motor museum in yorkshire. She's got great taste. But a little on the expensive side.
graemel said:
Great thread and perhaps a little off topic. A little while back having just got home from work. My better half greets me and says you've got to buy me one of these. Please I really want one. I'm sick to death of Smart Cars. It was either JDC mag or Octane but on the front cover was a picture of steve mcqueen and his xkss. I said there manual gearbox only. Oh bugger she says (she only has an automatic license). She also fell in love with an xk140 coupe in white with monte carlo plates at a motor museum in yorkshire. She's got great taste. But a little on the expensive side.
You can get the XK140 with an autobox, so that might be easier. I image an auto XK140 FHC would be about the cheapest of the XKs... then again the Steve McQueen XKSS is proably at the other end of the price spectrum. SWMBO presented me with a copy of C&SC a few years back with a MB 300 Roadster on the cover wanting to know why we hadn't bought one of those.
verminator said:
However many 'real' parts are left, lets face it Nigel has had the last laugh cause it's now worth a s**t load of dosh.
Funnily enough we discussed that very subject when I was last in England, a few serious people and I. Whe pressed to give a value I quoted about 50% of an accredited car, ( when he bought it it was 40%) but since I doubt it will come up for sale in my lifetime I have no idea if I'm right or wrong. But the car has now such a history of racing that it's highly possible that it may fetch much nearer the value of one of the originals. I'm one of those dusty historians who delve into archives, but does it matter? Since Nigel bought 774 RW he has given pleasure to millions by putting it out there, and how many engines that car has blown and at what cost I have no idea, but a lot, and then there is transport, accomodation, insurance and so on. I am in total admiration of the man.
I think his recreation of VDU 881 is even more worthy of note
http://www.mike-hawthorn.org.uk/881vdu.php
http://www.mike-hawthorn.org.uk/881vdu.php
Edited by LordBretSinclair on Saturday 28th January 11:03
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