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6fire

362 posts

20 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
About 20 years I reckon.

The 10 year point is where cars go from viable proposition to 'run it as a shed and only replace what's nescessary for the MOT'. Between 10 and 20 years old is when the value dips the most I reckon.

From 20 years on, the values start rising, and cars are worth working on again, so larger items failing (gearboxes, engines, PAS pumps etc) are suddenly worth reconditioning. At this point, the value attached to mileage drops off.

Also at about 20 years old, stuff is wearing out no matter whether it has been used or not. Rubber seals will be deteriorating, hydraulic components will be failing, bearings will need regreasing etc etc.

g3org3y

6,848 posts

60 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
My 1986 325i is on 179k miles. Still used as a dily driver. Bought it at around 135k 3 years ago.

Condition and what has/has not been replaced is more important than outright miles imo.

I'd rather a higher miled example with replaced suspension components etc rather than one on lower miles which will need all that in the near future.

Output Flange

12,295 posts

80 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
Part of what makes mileage less significant to value is the amount of cars available. If it's easy to find a 50k mile example of a car versus a 250k example then I think a lot of people will do that.

But as everyone has said, condition, condition, condition.

NotNormal

1,518 posts

83 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
- If the car is to be used for investment purposes then yes mileage is very key as low mileage/original models will always be worth more to these sorts of people.

- If the "average joe" (described in the loosest sense) wants a decent car to own and use then condition I think is more important.

If there's only a handfull of said cars left in existance then all of the above is pretty irrelevant I guess.

falkster

4,151 posts

72 months

[news] 
Friday 22nd June 2012 quote quote all
I don't see mileage being an issue so long as it has a comprehensive file of jobs that were completed telling you that the car has been maintained correctly.
I think you could possible have a classic that was 40 years old with 200k on the clock. I know of E30 M3s that are almost 30 years old and have 200k on the clock but you wouldn't be able to tell by the condition of the car because they've been looked after.
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james280779

1,434 posts

98 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
my 911 has done 125k and looks like it rolled out of the factory yesterday.

I have receipts for well over 100k worth of work and it is pretty much concorse as a result.

Mileage wasnt an issue and the day after I bought it I did a 1000(ish)mile round trip (Kent - Glasgow) without it missing a beat. It did however require a clean after

CampDavid

7,706 posts

67 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
It depend on the car.

On something newer, say an E30 M3, it makes a massive difference to values.

On older kit, such as E-Types, it matters less as most will be totally rebuilt.

The GTA series are not going up in value any time soon though

405dogvan

3,353 posts

134 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
A 156GTA has a LONG way to go before it becomes a classic - values will be dropping for a few years yet and I don't think they'll actually start to climb until most of the cars currently on the road are dead and gone...

So the answer to your question is - it's not a matter of miles, it's a matter of whether your car outlasts most of the others out there (with or without new engines/gearboxes or whatever).

Where you're at now, it's much more likely your car will be scrapped (either beyond repair or accident damaged) than it is to become a classic...

Jimbo.

2,017 posts

58 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
The GTA series are not going up in value any time soon though

They're not going down to anywhere near what people thought they would. The earliest cars are 10 years old now: if it were a normal 156, it'd be £1500, tops. But they're hovering at around what, £4K and haven't seemed to drop any lower. Seems that being amongst the last "shove a big engine in it and hope foe the best" cars, and one of the more entertaining Alfas before the world went all MPG and emissions mad, has put in on the fast track to classic.

crosseyedlion

497 posts

67 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
Reading this with great interest. My current (and only) car is a 1997 328i sport, manual. With the potential to be absolutely as it drove out of the showroom perfect, with very little work. Its on 117k right now (so not exactly low). Currently debating getting another one and putting one of them in the garage. I know they'll appreciate over the years, but with this in mind, putting even more miles on mine is starting to make me wince - could hit 140k in no time. frown


CampDavid

7,706 posts

67 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
crosseyedlion said:
Reading this with great interest. My current (and only) car is a 1997 328i sport, manual. With the potential to be absolutely as it drove out of the showroom perfect, with very little work. Its on 117k right now (so not exactly low). Currently debating getting another one and putting one of them in the garage. I know they'll appreciate over the years, but with this in mind, putting even more miles on mine is starting to make me wince - could hit 140k in no time. frown
I wouldn't bother, good car but future landfill.

Classic cars gain value by being unusual and delivering something that nothing else manages. The 328i is a good car but the M3 is the one people will want, even then, the E36 is overshadowed by the E30

crosseyedlion

497 posts

67 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
CampDavid said:
I wouldn't bother, good car but future landfill.

Classic cars gain value by being unusual and delivering something that nothing else manages. The 328i is a good car but the M3 is the one people will want, even then, the E36 is overshadowed by the E30
You do realise that decent ones can sell for 3-5k? They're already creeping up. And you could use that argument (328i sport vs. m3) about any tidy e30 and the 325i or m3...and Its pretty clear it doesn't hold true (over time).

And not everyone likes the e30...personally, I think they're horrendous. I'd never buy one, and the e46 is too soft and sanitised for me. I could see myself in many years wanting an e36 again, as will others (it only takes 1 willing to pay the price). Decent, none shagged out m3's will be worth a decent amount more than now and so will the next step down. The rest (uncared for) will be sheds.

Besides, I never asked you for your personal opinions on my particular car.

so called

3,506 posts

78 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
james280779 said:
my 911 has done 125k and looks like it rolled out of the factory yesterday.

I have receipts for well over 100k worth of work and it is pretty much concorse as a result.

Mileage wasnt an issue and the day after I bought it I did a 1000(ish)mile round trip (Kent - Glasgow) without it missing a beat. It did however require a clean after
As with James, I bought my car to drive and at the same time have spared no expense on maintenance.
I love TVR's and was lucky enough to get my hands on a 2006 Mk2 Tuscan convertible, with only about 83 made.
I expect to change shocks etc. having already upgraded them. A rebuild for the engine will come along and other things like interior refurb and deepest.
If I look at the Tuscan market, higher mileage Tuscans with rebuilds are more valuable than lower lineage cars with no rebuilds. Yes, this is because of the fragile early engines but I think it relates to the value of any higher mileage older car s well.

It's played on my mind as I look at Tuscan prices rise but continue to put miles on mine but I want to enjoy.

Fox-

9,958 posts

115 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
CampDavid said:
Classic cars gain value by being unusual and delivering something that nothing else manages.
What, like a Mk2 Escort? Once the most common and ordinary car anyone could imagine...

edward1

689 posts

135 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
Whilst many people say buy on condition and not mileage, mileage is still there psychologically. I also think the point when mileage becomes almost irrelevant will l depend very much on what are the potential issues with the specific car. If you consider a TVR then the cost of an engine or gearbox swap or rebuild is probably less than a body off chassis rebuild certainly for rv8 or v6 versions. Therefore if I was looking at a high mileage S, chim or griff I would be more interested with the chassis. If the mechanicals had 200k on but were performing well, either due to exceptionally good maintenance or having been refreshed and the chassis solid or replaced then I'd be happy. Given the supply of lower mileage cars though, you would still expect to pay less but probably not a huge differential.

When it comes to other vehicles then knowing the pitfalls I would think is key. I would imaging that a modern classic Ferrari an engine/gear box transplant would be very costly and hence mileage become more significant. How this relates to the GTA I have no idea. I can certainly see the 156 and 156s/w becoming moderately desirable and values becoming stable and as attrition takes place creeping up. Not everyone ants a BMW.

Liquid Knight

10,521 posts

52 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
S10GTA said:
My reason for asking is I saw an Intergrale with 250k a while back, still commanding a hefty price. It was lower than the 50k examples, but it didn't seem to have that much of a detrimental effect. You often see classic Ferraris with no mention of mileage, does this mean at a point it no longer matters if a car has done 100k plus?
100,000+ miles on a well looked after car is noting compared to 30,000 miles in a thrashed car that's had a good valet before sale.

Under 50,000 on an Intergralle? It's either been clocked, not used often enough or off the road for a period of time. How can you own a Delta and not want to drive it? silly

Face for Radio

1,665 posts

36 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
Some cars, mileage is ALWAYS going to be massively important.

To the Ferrari and Porsche crowds (GT3 RS and Scuderia) types, the fanatics get the arse ache and call a car leggy when it's over 15,000miles. Can't see that ever changing.

Some of the people I've met who are well heeled enough to be in the exotic classics circles are so particular and picky it's unreal.

Richie Howard

193 posts

37 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
buy a car with only 5 digits on the odometer! easy.

my uncle has a morgan +8 with 200k+, and recently had a respray and an engine/box rebuild. you would need to look at the paperwork to know that it has done so many miles.

ot - anyone know of a morgan with more miles?

lowdrag

5,568 posts

82 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
My E-type has covered an indeterminate mileage since I have no idea if the odometer was right when I bought it. I don't think anyone can be sure of that given the mists of time. In my ownership we have covered 120,000, but she is sound as a pound bodywise, starts on the button and uses less oil than many a modern rebuilt engine. Strangely, it gets a lot of atention ebcause it does show signs of usage, call it patina or whatever, especially inside, and attracted one man's attention last year that he tried hard to buy it on the spot. Besides, classiccars with nominal mileage crop up from time to time at exhorbitant prices but I'd hesitate to own or drive one since the value is in the mileage and more importantly would the car be safe to drive without a full makeover?

CampDavid

7,706 posts

67 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
Fox- said:
CampDavid said:
Classic cars gain value by being unusual and delivering something that nothing else manages.
What, like a Mk2 Escort? Once the most common and ordinary car anyone could imagine...
Ah, that does though offer something special, membership to retro Ford clubs and all the excitement that comes with it. There's a huge culture around older Fords and that's what gives them value. They're also, purchase price aside, cheap as hell to run and very old, classics tend to raise up in value as they age.
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