The Restoration - part 2
Discussion
James - thank you for your kind words. I have to say that Paul at DTR Sports makes it easier. He gives a quote upfront for the work he has to do and sticks to it. His willingness to share some risk is very refreshing. I am sure he spent more time on my Alfa than he anticipated, but he was supremely professional and insisted on getting things right and not cutting corners. He is a real gentleman.
Fantastic. Interestingly my DBS V8 had Bosch mechanical fuel injection, driven by the engine. The seals can go, meaning the petrol seaps into the engine block, washes oil from the bores and knackers the bearings. I had to syringe out and replace the oil from the fuel injection sump every 500 miles.
Anyhow, those hours sound about right for the work. Add on the new parts plus the shiny parts (borranis??) and it becomes a mega job. Great stuff!
Anyhow, those hours sound about right for the work. Add on the new parts plus the shiny parts (borranis??) and it becomes a mega job. Great stuff!
I fear the same is happening with the Maserati, William. At least there are only 6 cylinders not 8.
Your DBS looks great. I have a little model of a DBS as it appeared in the only Bond film with George Lazenby - OHMSS. I think that was an early DBS still running the 6 cylinder engine though, because the new V8 wasn't ready for the launch. A few years ago they seemed to be the forgotten AM, with some cheap cars knocking about, but they seem to have gone the same way as the other Astons now! Although, having said that, the "cheap cars" probably needed the sort of restoration work my car needs!
Your DBS looks great. I have a little model of a DBS as it appeared in the only Bond film with George Lazenby - OHMSS. I think that was an early DBS still running the 6 cylinder engine though, because the new V8 wasn't ready for the launch. A few years ago they seemed to be the forgotten AM, with some cheap cars knocking about, but they seem to have gone the same way as the other Astons now! Although, having said that, the "cheap cars" probably needed the sort of restoration work my car needs!
I will try and make you feel better and keep you company in the high hours workload on car restorations in the next few days. I will post some pics of my TR3 and TR2 which are being restored after my 1800. They have more holes than metal lol. That is not even thinking about the number of parts I will need lol.
its comforting (in a strange way!) for me to see those hours estimates. The number of people (generally with less exotic machinery) that get MUCH lower estimated hours than that from other restorers, only to end up with a poor end result is unbelievable. It's a constant battle to explain the difference between a proper job and a bodge!
Looking forward to seeing this one come back to life!
Looking forward to seeing this one come back to life!
SprintSpeciale said:
Some photos of the boot and rear seat arrangement. Points of interest are the evidence of prior work in the boot area (the gold is from brazing - i.e. using brass - this was a new one on me, but apparently it's not used anymore because it's not strong enough), and the piece of wood that is attached to ensure the rear parcel shelf sits at the right height. I am told that is original!
We are rebuilding a Merc 250sl Pagoda at the moment which has been generously brazed everywhere, wonderful stuff its not!, makes every subsequent repair take twice as long!!
watching with great interest - totally agree with what James said. Somewhat amusingly, I just got a call from HR Owen in South Ken. They heard from my wife* that I had bought a 3500GT and the wanted to know if they could borrow it for the Maserati centenary party they are organising. I just emailed a few pics through to explain why they probably want to find another candidate..
- Mrs SS surpassed herself on my recent birthday by getting hold of a set of reproduction documents for the car from Maserati Classiche. I had mentioned that I was going to do this, and she contacted HR Owen (who we bought the modern stuff from) and asked them how she could get hold of the documents. That has rather upped the ante in the Chrsitmas present stakes, obviously!
Paul's (The Surveyor's) progress with his Mexico has been very impressive. Unable to do anything to my car myself, I have instead been attacking the paper work over the holidays - trying to get the car registered in the UK.
For those who are interested in such things, a brief rundown of what I know about the car. I have the original build sheet (a lovely thing, hand written in Italian) and delivery note, which show that the car was made in December 1961 and delivered to its first owner in Milan on January 4, 1962 (I even have the first owner's name and address). The next thing I know is that the car was sent to California. I bought it with a Californina Certificate of Title which suggested that the car had been registered in California since 1990. Interestingly, whilst the chassis number was correct, the Cerificate of Title wrongly identified the year of manufacture as 1963. The Certificate of Title shows that the car was sold in July 2012. The purchaser appears to have been Guy Berryman (the Coldplay bassist and classic car collector), because I have the Customs & Excise paperwork for the car made out in his name. That shows it arrived in the UK in October 2012. He sold the car, through Bonhams I believe, and I bought it from the guy who bought it from him (via Godin Banks).
I almost didn't buy the car because there was an issue with the engine number - in that when I had the car inspected the engine number wasn't stamped in the normal place. I then heard from a few places that some Maserati blocks were never stamped. This seemed unlikely to me, so I contacted Maserati in Modena to ask them about this. The answer was unexpected - all engines that were originally in the car, or that were replaced by the factory, should have an engine number that is the same as the chassis number, but it does appear that some engines left the factory without the stamping having occurred. However, if there is no stamp it is possible to cross-reference the engine from a four figure number that appears stamped elsewhere on the engine - that number is the number that Maserati used for internal logistical purposes and if I could confirm any such number they could tell me which engine was in the car.
To quote the exact words from Maserati:
"Anyway, I have experienced some cases where the engine number was not originally stamped on the block (possibly a mistake done by the factory at that time). On the engine block is present another number (usually is located in the front of the engine close to the water pump). It was called “engine internal number” and it was used by the factory at that time for logistic purposes. Please try to find it and let me know. I can make a further investigation on it."
As luck would have it, when Paul at DTR inspected the car he did note a number stamped on it. I gave that number to Maserati, and they replied that their records showed that to be the engine originally fitted to the car with the chassis number that I have now bought. Put simply, I have one of the cars which left the factory without the number having been stamped on it. I have obvioulsy kept all the correspondence with Modena on this!
Anyway, all of the relevant info has gone off to DVLA, along with their form V55/5. Time to see whether they will agree to register it when it is in a middle of a restoration.
As regards the restoration itself, not too much to report. A new grille and bumpers are on their way, and a new wiring loom is being made up. Panel work begins in earnest shortly.
For those who are interested in such things, a brief rundown of what I know about the car. I have the original build sheet (a lovely thing, hand written in Italian) and delivery note, which show that the car was made in December 1961 and delivered to its first owner in Milan on January 4, 1962 (I even have the first owner's name and address). The next thing I know is that the car was sent to California. I bought it with a Californina Certificate of Title which suggested that the car had been registered in California since 1990. Interestingly, whilst the chassis number was correct, the Cerificate of Title wrongly identified the year of manufacture as 1963. The Certificate of Title shows that the car was sold in July 2012. The purchaser appears to have been Guy Berryman (the Coldplay bassist and classic car collector), because I have the Customs & Excise paperwork for the car made out in his name. That shows it arrived in the UK in October 2012. He sold the car, through Bonhams I believe, and I bought it from the guy who bought it from him (via Godin Banks).
I almost didn't buy the car because there was an issue with the engine number - in that when I had the car inspected the engine number wasn't stamped in the normal place. I then heard from a few places that some Maserati blocks were never stamped. This seemed unlikely to me, so I contacted Maserati in Modena to ask them about this. The answer was unexpected - all engines that were originally in the car, or that were replaced by the factory, should have an engine number that is the same as the chassis number, but it does appear that some engines left the factory without the stamping having occurred. However, if there is no stamp it is possible to cross-reference the engine from a four figure number that appears stamped elsewhere on the engine - that number is the number that Maserati used for internal logistical purposes and if I could confirm any such number they could tell me which engine was in the car.
To quote the exact words from Maserati:
"Anyway, I have experienced some cases where the engine number was not originally stamped on the block (possibly a mistake done by the factory at that time). On the engine block is present another number (usually is located in the front of the engine close to the water pump). It was called “engine internal number” and it was used by the factory at that time for logistic purposes. Please try to find it and let me know. I can make a further investigation on it."
As luck would have it, when Paul at DTR inspected the car he did note a number stamped on it. I gave that number to Maserati, and they replied that their records showed that to be the engine originally fitted to the car with the chassis number that I have now bought. Put simply, I have one of the cars which left the factory without the number having been stamped on it. I have obvioulsy kept all the correspondence with Modena on this!
Anyway, all of the relevant info has gone off to DVLA, along with their form V55/5. Time to see whether they will agree to register it when it is in a middle of a restoration.
As regards the restoration itself, not too much to report. A new grille and bumpers are on their way, and a new wiring loom is being made up. Panel work begins in earnest shortly.
So, DVLA wouldn't register the car on the basis that it has no MOT. This was after someone on the DVLA helpline had told me that it would be OK if I applied to register the car, and have it SORN'd at the same time, given that it is in the middle of a restoration. Very annoying.
In terms of work progress, Paul drew up a list of parts that need to be replaced/refurbed. About 95% of them are available, but a few odd things will need to be sourced second hand. The one snag is that the parts that are available are going to cost north of £10k (ex VAT). Ouch.
In other news, my plan to put the car through Classiche certification with Maserati has taken a knock. Maserati Classiche don't do certification (at least not yet). They provide all the historical documentation (as referred to in my previous post), and they (I should say Fabio Collina, in particular) are very responsive to queries and requests for help with information - but no certification programme.
I'll try to get along to DTR soon and get some more pictures up.
In terms of work progress, Paul drew up a list of parts that need to be replaced/refurbed. About 95% of them are available, but a few odd things will need to be sourced second hand. The one snag is that the parts that are available are going to cost north of £10k (ex VAT). Ouch.
In other news, my plan to put the car through Classiche certification with Maserati has taken a knock. Maserati Classiche don't do certification (at least not yet). They provide all the historical documentation (as referred to in my previous post), and they (I should say Fabio Collina, in particular) are very responsive to queries and requests for help with information - but no certification programme.
I'll try to get along to DTR soon and get some more pictures up.
Very much looking forward to seeing some update pictures. Shame about the DVLA, and given the extent of the work being proposed, I'm not too surprised by the parts cost. Some things have proved hideously expensive on the Mexico and some things are surprisingly cheap. It seams to be down to constant trawling of the internet and buying things when they're best value, and not just when needed. Let me know what you're looking for and if I see it, I'll let you know.
Parts supply has been a pain for me recently, with work on the car stalled due to shocking service from one supplier who can't seam to grasp that there is a difference between 3/16" tube brake pipe fittings and those for 1/4" pipe. 2 returned orders and 2 weeks later and I still cant complete the clutch or brake pipes!
Forever onward and keep the updates coming, inspiration needed
Paul
Parts supply has been a pain for me recently, with work on the car stalled due to shocking service from one supplier who can't seam to grasp that there is a difference between 3/16" tube brake pipe fittings and those for 1/4" pipe. 2 returned orders and 2 weeks later and I still cant complete the clutch or brake pipes!
Forever onward and keep the updates coming, inspiration needed
Paul
So, much of the day wasted checking out all the 3500GTs on the excellent register maintained by Marcel at www.am101.org
The question is which of these cars is painted in "Azzurro Vincennes". The colour that looks closest to the colour that was under my headlining when it was stripped out (which was a sort of petrol blue colour) is probably that on chassis number 101-1486 (the scabby one!). The pictures and chassis numbers are taken from Marcel's site.
101-264
101-648
101-672
101-1018
101-1486
101-1668
101-2822
The question is which of these cars is painted in "Azzurro Vincennes". The colour that looks closest to the colour that was under my headlining when it was stripped out (which was a sort of petrol blue colour) is probably that on chassis number 101-1486 (the scabby one!). The pictures and chassis numbers are taken from Marcel's site.
101-264
101-648
101-672
101-1018
101-1486
101-1668
101-2822
I am sorry for the extremely long time with no posts. I have been travelling often and I haven't had much chance to get down to DTR. I finally managed this morning. The pictures below will show what's been going on with the bodywork. There has also been a lot done with the engine (but you'll need t look at the "Projects" page on the DTR website to see that because I didn't get to the engine today).
The photos below show how bad the corrosion is. The box full of scrap metal speaks volumes in itself. The car is at an interesting point because you can see on the passenger side (remember it's LHD) the extent of the problems, and on the driver's side the work that has been done to fit newly fabricated sills and a new floor. There are some close up photographs of a section of the sill from the driver's side that was cut out - it shows clearly the heat resistant material that was used because the exhaust runs there. It contained asbestos so there is a different material being used in the new sills.
There is also a photo of some newly fabricated sections waiting to be fitted on the passenger side.
Finally, you can see the work that has been done around the nose section, which was quite badly damaged. There is a new grille ready to be fitted - the old one was beyond repair.
On a different note - if any one is going to Soft Top Sunday at Goodwood tomorrow then shout. I am planning to be there.
The photos below show how bad the corrosion is. The box full of scrap metal speaks volumes in itself. The car is at an interesting point because you can see on the passenger side (remember it's LHD) the extent of the problems, and on the driver's side the work that has been done to fit newly fabricated sills and a new floor. There are some close up photographs of a section of the sill from the driver's side that was cut out - it shows clearly the heat resistant material that was used because the exhaust runs there. It contained asbestos so there is a different material being used in the new sills.
There is also a photo of some newly fabricated sections waiting to be fitted on the passenger side.
Finally, you can see the work that has been done around the nose section, which was quite badly damaged. There is a new grille ready to be fitted - the old one was beyond repair.
On a different note - if any one is going to Soft Top Sunday at Goodwood tomorrow then shout. I am planning to be there.
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