$5M to invest in classics for long term..
Discussion
Completely left field choice, as you can't drive it on the road, but it seems he's not going to much anyway. Why not buy the 2000 BTCC Prodrive Ford Mondeo, that Rickard Rydell drove. Sure it's going up for auction starting at £120,000 very soon, and I would put my house (if I owned one. student) on it never losing your mate any money.
Completely left field choice I know, but it's a beautiful car.
Completely left field choice I know, but it's a beautiful car.
KrazyIvan said:
Do they have to be road cars? if not, how about a Michael Schumacher F1 car. Regardless of what many may think of him, he IS one of the greatest F1 drivers of all time, and I can hardly see any car run by him losing money in the long term.
A quick call to Ferrari should see him with one in a few months.
5th gear showed a guy doing exactly this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXanWA1U7aE
Great idea.A quick call to Ferrari should see him with one in a few months.
5th gear showed a guy doing exactly this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXanWA1U7aE
picking up on lowdrags comments. I wonder if there's an "ideal" time period:
1. modern cars with modern electrics might prove too expensive to maintain (think - AM Wedges). Easier with earlier cars where the electronics were simple
2. I wonder if cars that are too old (bare with me), ie pre-war, will simply fail to resonate with classic car buyers of tomorrow as the shapes are so alien when compared with modern cars/the sorts of things teenagers have on their wall posters now? Much easier to feel affinity for something from the 50s-70s
1. modern cars with modern electrics might prove too expensive to maintain (think - AM Wedges). Easier with earlier cars where the electronics were simple
2. I wonder if cars that are too old (bare with me), ie pre-war, will simply fail to resonate with classic car buyers of tomorrow as the shapes are so alien when compared with modern cars/the sorts of things teenagers have on their wall posters now? Much easier to feel affinity for something from the 50s-70s
mmm...not sure if topic is a school boys fantasy or real. But heres my tuppence.
If he has 5M and is not bothered about losing nominal value (different to real value)then I would buy 2 - 3 signature cars with verifiable history. By this I mean racing Alfa's, Jags, Bentleys, Porsche, Ferrari, Astons. Le Mans or similar endurance racing like Mille Miglia usually assures they will retain value. I still don't think they will make money for your client we are firmly in bubble territory now. Not only will this give your client a small useable and maintainable selection of thoroughbreads, they probably won't bore or using a Blower Bentley one day, a group C Porsche for the track and a Aston DB4 GT for the golf course.
Can't see then point in stocking a large storage facility full of low mid tier classics. I say this because if he has no interest in cars he will come to look at them as a barn full of junk metal. But this might not answer the real purpose to the thread.
If he has 5M and is not bothered about losing nominal value (different to real value)then I would buy 2 - 3 signature cars with verifiable history. By this I mean racing Alfa's, Jags, Bentleys, Porsche, Ferrari, Astons. Le Mans or similar endurance racing like Mille Miglia usually assures they will retain value. I still don't think they will make money for your client we are firmly in bubble territory now. Not only will this give your client a small useable and maintainable selection of thoroughbreads, they probably won't bore or using a Blower Bentley one day, a group C Porsche for the track and a Aston DB4 GT for the golf course.
Can't see then point in stocking a large storage facility full of low mid tier classics. I say this because if he has no interest in cars he will come to look at them as a barn full of junk metal. But this might not answer the real purpose to the thread.
Hi Mr Magoo...all above board. Have been a PH'er for 10 years- Have much better things to do than troll around..
I was hoping to elicit the views of fellow PH'ers and enjoy some of the fun that I am having but alas, its always a few bitter folk who want to spoil the fun..never mind. I will keep you posted on the next acquisitions as they happen
I was hoping to elicit the views of fellow PH'ers and enjoy some of the fun that I am having but alas, its always a few bitter folk who want to spoil the fun..never mind. I will keep you posted on the next acquisitions as they happen
Paracetamol said:
Hi Mr Magoo...all above board. Have been a PH'er for 10 years- Have much better things to do than troll around..
I was hoping to elicit the views of fellow PH'ers and enjoy some of the fun that I am having but alas, its always a few bitter folk who want to spoil the fun..never mind. I will keep you posted on the next acquisitions as they happen
Nice job then. Bit of a school boys wet dream. But I stick to my guns about quality not quantity. Add pre war bugattis to that.I was hoping to elicit the views of fellow PH'ers and enjoy some of the fun that I am having but alas, its always a few bitter folk who want to spoil the fun..never mind. I will keep you posted on the next acquisitions as they happen
I know what he should buy: Nothing
Non-petrol heads investing in cars and driving the market up to the point where it bursts. Was this not what caused the classic car boom and bust of the late 80's early 90's.
Sorry but I don't want to encourage anyone to be the cause of this.
Tell him to go invest his money in something that creates employment, or creates something.
Non-petrol heads investing in cars and driving the market up to the point where it bursts. Was this not what caused the classic car boom and bust of the late 80's early 90's.
Sorry but I don't want to encourage anyone to be the cause of this.
Tell him to go invest his money in something that creates employment, or creates something.
jamieandthemagic said:
Tell him to go invest his money in something that creates employment, or creates something.
The OP said the block doesn't have much interest in cars which is sad, and that they will be kept in Germany presumably in a lock up. OP, you've had lots of ideas now, could you have this chat with your mate and see what he says when you say we've mostly said buy into something you enjoy? downr said:
Much easier to feel affinity for something from the 50s-70s
I do wonder if the 50's are now too old! Although I did grow up going to VSCC events, so I'd look Pre War. Even then Caveat Emptor, check the provenance if you want an investment...Many pre war cars have risen in value recently, and the new owners are unlikely to have been teenagers in 1930. As has been said buy to use and then if it keeps up with (house price) inflation, jobs a good one.
Anyway we had a fun day up at Brooklands in the A7 last weekend.
Looking at the original list; Gullwing, Alfa 8C.
I was thinking 1954 Gullwing and 1933 8C, but looking at the rest of the list it more likely to be the modern ones. (and the 8C might have taken more than the whole budget! http://www.supercars.net/Pics?viewCarPic=y&sou... )
davepen said:
Looking at the original list; Gullwing, Alfa 8C.
I was thinking 1954 Gullwing and 1933 8C, but looking at the rest of the list it more likely to be the modern ones.
I guess the 8C was a modern one but like you I assumed a 1950s Mercedes Gullwing, I didn't even realise there was a modern "Gullwing" what Merc is that? I was thinking 1954 Gullwing and 1933 8C, but looking at the rest of the list it more likely to be the modern ones.
davepen said:
I do wonder if the 50's are now too old!
Dunno, my Aston has appreciated by 450%-500% in the less than 7 years. I happy with 50s cars 
As an aside because it will be of no interest to the OPs friend but for increases in value you need to look at marks like Alvis, AC Ace/Aceca (not Cobra) XKs value are being pulled up by E-Type prices, Bristol early (and 70s) Astons being pulled up by DB5 prices etc.
RichB said:
guess the 8C was a modern one but like you I assumed a 1950s Mercedes Gullwing, I didn't even realise there was a modern "Gullwing" what Merc is that?
SLS Merc is the answer, but I don't think it will be an investment. Just call it selling a new car with "history". The 8C is again modern but a nomenclature of a pre-war beautiful Alfa which now has now a stratospheric price. I would own one id I won the lottery!And, right on cue, this link gets posted to another thread...
http://www.wilmotslitigation.co.uk/blog/2013/12/23...
http://www.wilmotslitigation.co.uk/blog/2013/12/23...
TooMany2cvs said:
And, right on cue, this link gets posted to another thread...
http://www.wilmotslitigation.co.uk/blog/2013/12/23...
http://www.wilmotslitigation.co.uk/blog/2013/12/23...
I will share this with my friend now. He'll find it hillarious
Paracetamol said:
So a close friend who recently made alot of money by selling his business has asked me to work with him in putting together a collection of cars- he has no interest in quick flips and likes cars but isnt a mega car guy (he may not even see the cars let alone drive them!)- so very niche cars that he hasnt heard of or seen will not be of interest. All cars have to be sports cars. Acquisitons so far
1) Ferrari Enzo- Why?
-Last of normally aspirated hypercars (pre Hybrid drivetrains)
-Amazing dynamics and performance
-relative ease of ownership (!)
-Only made in small numbers
-Brutal looks
2) Mercedes Gullwing- Why?
-Awsome looks
-Relatively rare
-The best car from the best car company in the world
3) Lambo Miura
-Drop dead gorgeous looks
-Awesome perfomance in its time
-Did I say looks
4)A 60s Ferrari of some form
5)BMW Z8- awsome looks, clasic in the making
6)Alfa 8C- awsome looks, alfa is about to make a come back
The 1st three have been purchased. This leaves $1.5M to spend on 4-6. Whould you agree with my approach
Hi Paracetamol, guess you don't suffer from to many headaches figuring out what cars to invest in, must say the Enzo is a good choice because it is so rare, the Merc gulwing is interesting, am not sure if you mean the modern or classic version, as for Merc being from the best car company in the world I think you have fallen for the marketing hype. The Miura is simply staggering, is drop dead gorgeous, it looks right, sounds right, and apart from the occasional fireball when petrol is blown out of the carbs onto the hot exhaust manifolds it is awesome. 1) Ferrari Enzo- Why?
-Last of normally aspirated hypercars (pre Hybrid drivetrains)
-Amazing dynamics and performance
-relative ease of ownership (!)
-Only made in small numbers
-Brutal looks
2) Mercedes Gullwing- Why?
-Awsome looks
-Relatively rare
-The best car from the best car company in the world
3) Lambo Miura
-Drop dead gorgeous looks
-Awesome perfomance in its time
-Did I say looks
4)A 60s Ferrari of some form
5)BMW Z8- awsome looks, clasic in the making
6)Alfa 8C- awsome looks, alfa is about to make a come back
The 1st three have been purchased. This leaves $1.5M to spend on 4-6. Whould you agree with my approach
Your friend is a very lucky man.
Must be nice to be in a position to even consider such a investment, so well done to the guy - and for a nominal fee I will be quite happy to drive them on a monthly basis to ensure they don't seize up
Not sure about investing in any modern stuff like the Z8, but if he has a few millions to spare then I'm sure one or two purchases of modern day classics wouldn't dent the bank balance too much.
So in my garage I would put:
An original LP400 Countach
LP400 S Countach
LP5000 S Countach
I wouldn't bother with the last Countach anniversary model due to the bumpers which I feel spoil the original shape.
Mclaren F1 if he can afford it.
An original Ford GT40
Porsche 928
Porsche 928 S4
Porsche 928 GTS
NOTE: Am somewhat biased towards the Porsche 928 models because I own an S4. It's a well undervalued supercar and at such bargain basement prices it would be silly not to snap a few up.
An original Porsche 911 Turbo
An original 1960s Mini Cooper or Cooper S (not too sure about model designations!)
Perhaps a Ferrari 246 or original 308 GTB or 512BB. And not the fuel injected versions! - I can't comment on inflated pricing because I don't follow Ferrari prices.
As a footnote, most of these classic sports cars weren't mass produced as they are nowadays, (seem to recollect that Lamborghini used to produce one Countach per week) so there are a finite number of cars available to buyers. Once they disappear into a private collection they are gone for good.
I've watched the classic car adverts on and off since the 1980s and have noticed a dramatic drop in the number of classic cars advertised for sale over this term. I think this is down to collectors in the UK putting theses cars into their collections, but also overseas buyers snapping up UK cars due to the low exchange rate, and now that millionaires and billionaires from China, India and Russia have a taste for western classic cars I assume more and more cars will be purchased and placed into private collections.
I'm sure there are plenty other markets to invest in and am quite sure your friend has investments in other areas, but hey, if I had a garage filled with these cars it would make my day just looking at them. And if the bottom really did fall out I could still drive them
As a footnote, if I had the money for just one car, it would be a Countach LP 5000 S.
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