$5M to invest in classics for long term..
Discussion
Yertis said:
I hope you'll excuse me for saying this Paracetamol, but it does seem to me a curiously soulless – even joyless - way to acquire classic cars. Like buying books by the yard.
To clarify..a number of these cars are under restoration and I am enjoying watching the fruits of some seriously skilled craftspeople come to fruition..We do also get to drive some of the cars such as the Vanquish but yes- it will be heartbreaking when some of these are sold but without having been driven by me or the owner..but you can'd drive stocks and shares either
at least we get to look and see these cars..Fayaz LP640 said:
lowdrag said:
The "mode" today is to "invest" in classic cars. I've already posted ad nauseam how it irks me to see this trend, but then lemmings died to a man and I can't reverse the trend. You have to understand that classic cars are no longer for driving, least of all if there is a cloud in the sky, and are purely there to compare to the HAGI index which is quoted every month in a classic magazine. If you subscribe to it (not sure how much per month) I believe you can compare it to other indices, such as gold, silver, duck poo and other incredibly valuable things.
I've also posted how it has changed by driving, less intent on pedal to the metal since the value of my estate for my kids keeps popping into my head. It's spoiled the fun of being a classic car owner a bit - no, a lot. But the anti-lemming investment trust, with a negative curve value, would not please the investor here. He's out to make money with perhaps little passion for cars. I know not, but it brings to mind the sale of the Ecurie Ecosse cars where the C-type, D-type and the transporter were all sold to a New York art dealer who thought that cars were a better investment than his current and past way of life. Like many such owners (another Ecurie Ecosse car comes to mind) the cars will be shown or raced "in the right places" to further increase their history and elusive value. Pebble Beach, Laguna Seca, The Festival and the Revival all come to mind. Except that in the case of one car I know it will be "raced" but never win, always seeking to have it seen in the right places but with never the chance of an opposite lock, never a dice, turning relentlessly around the circuit at 7/10ths maximum, all in the name of increased value. It must never be dented. It must be seen, the "history" must relentlessly keep increasing, and all in the godless name of money. I would love to seek a passion where nothing has a value, is used, and is just fun, with no thought of profit but I can't find one. Old fishing rods and reels are up in value, automobilia is now sky-high, old football jerseys, rugby shorts (with sweat and DNA as proof of course) - you name it, it has become an investment.
Rant over.
I've also posted how it has changed by driving, less intent on pedal to the metal since the value of my estate for my kids keeps popping into my head. It's spoiled the fun of being a classic car owner a bit - no, a lot. But the anti-lemming investment trust, with a negative curve value, would not please the investor here. He's out to make money with perhaps little passion for cars. I know not, but it brings to mind the sale of the Ecurie Ecosse cars where the C-type, D-type and the transporter were all sold to a New York art dealer who thought that cars were a better investment than his current and past way of life. Like many such owners (another Ecurie Ecosse car comes to mind) the cars will be shown or raced "in the right places" to further increase their history and elusive value. Pebble Beach, Laguna Seca, The Festival and the Revival all come to mind. Except that in the case of one car I know it will be "raced" but never win, always seeking to have it seen in the right places but with never the chance of an opposite lock, never a dice, turning relentlessly around the circuit at 7/10ths maximum, all in the name of increased value. It must never be dented. It must be seen, the "history" must relentlessly keep increasing, and all in the godless name of money. I would love to seek a passion where nothing has a value, is used, and is just fun, with no thought of profit but I can't find one. Old fishing rods and reels are up in value, automobilia is now sky-high, old football jerseys, rugby shorts (with sweat and DNA as proof of course) - you name it, it has become an investment.
Rant over.
Edited by lowdrag on Thursday 24th April 18:57
Excellent post. It mirrors exactly how I feel about the ever inflating classic market. The top end has always been unattainable to all but the very few, but our current bubble is pushing everything old into higher priced territory. It seems the mentality is that anything old is a classic, and thus should cost an extortionate amount. All of this regardless of the condition or even inherent worth of the car. And nothing is safe from the halo effect- should one car shoot into the stratosphere for whatever reason, history or provenance, all similar or vaguely related models should increase.
And as you mentioned, there are a host of issues that come with increasing prices: it dampens the enjoyment of ownership, becomes unobtainable by enthusiasts and often into the hands of 'collectors,' the list goes on. But all of that can be left for another post.
Yes he's worked damned hard to afford all these and slowly and surely he is building an appreciation of these cars. There are sill lots of classic cars that are afforable and not rising in price (MGs etc) and these cars going from 100k to 300k each as no relevance to 99.98% of the world..
Treat this thread a different way...yes its reality but do a 'what if I won $20m..' and now say what you would buy by way of classics.
Furyblade_Lee said:
Where is he going to store $5m of classic cars? Is he going to use them? Moth ball them? Maintain them? I think he really needs to know a bit more than ask a few mates if he knows little about the market. Because he could get burned very very badly if the market drops out ( and it has, and it will again.. ).
All I would suggest is buy only proven blue-chip cars with preferably cast iron or racing history at big money prices, because they are most likely to survive the next bust. I would not go near regular mint, concourse 100-point e-types or Astons at £100,000+ as investments unless they are important historical examples, as they will most likely take the biggest hits when it does go poop.
To be fair..storage is proving to be the biggest headache. Its likely that a property investment will be used so that the storage costs can be recouped with potential property gains..All I would suggest is buy only proven blue-chip cars with preferably cast iron or racing history at big money prices, because they are most likely to survive the next bust. I would not go near regular mint, concourse 100-point e-types or Astons at £100,000+ as investments unless they are important historical examples, as they will most likely take the biggest hits when it does go poop.
Edited by Furyblade_Lee on Saturday 26th April 18:55
The idea will be to maintain the top end cars with regular annual services etc but to mothball the cheaper cars with the view to recommission them as they come out of storage
One thing lead to another and the collection is around 38 cars. The best ones in terms of investment were the modern classics such as the Carrera GT, Z8, 512M etc. The GT3 4.0 RS we got went hyper.. The non movers have been the big sixties stuff such as the Ferrari 250 GT lusso and the Gullwing...and these continue to soften
Had alot of fun along the way and now we are looking at those to hold vs those to move on...
To the man looking at the 8C...all I can say is do it...the reason we didnt was acutually becuase we felt it was too pretty to lock away but not blue chip enough to invest in. But as a weekend enjoyment car that isnt as flash and obvious as a Ferrari and more exclusive than a Maserati, I would say its perfect..
Had alot of fun along the way and now we are looking at those to hold vs those to move on...
To the man looking at the 8C...all I can say is do it...the reason we didnt was acutually becuase we felt it was too pretty to lock away but not blue chip enough to invest in. But as a weekend enjoyment car that isnt as flash and obvious as a Ferrari and more exclusive than a Maserati, I would say its perfect..
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