MGB GT electronic ignition conversion - car won't start
Discussion
N5 NRO said:
nta16 said:
just re-reading one of your posts - are you sure you've got the Intermotor sports coil suitable for ballast resistor ?
I believe so, I had it fitted for two years before taking the car off the road - would it run if it was the wrong type?Thanks for the link - I would definitely rather go down the route of a new 123 dissy, however I've just bought a house and apparently I need to "prioritise" and may have to keep the existing one for the time being. I definitely want the electronic ignition though, but may get a reconditioned dissy next summer instead.
I've run a luminition system and while they do the job they are only as good at the distributor, with the 123 you get a brands new dizzy.
nta16 said:
N5 NRO said:
... however I've just bought a house and apparently I need to "prioritise"
yes you do! unless you're of the generation and mind set that you can have your cake and eat it and possibly even get someone else to pay for it now or laterperhaps you should sell the MGB and cash in now for your priorities and buy again when you can better afford it
I bet you loved that bit of advice
Edited by N5 NRO on Sunday 8th June 09:32
jagracer said:
I'm pretty sure you shouldn't have a ballast resistor on an electronic system. The ballast resistor is there to stop the points burning out but I would think you have a 12V coil, the ballast resistor will cut the voltage to around 8V except when you start it which probably why it'll run for a few seconds.
I've run a luminition system and while they do the job they are only as good at the distributor, with the 123 you get a brands new dizzy.
The instructions for the kit I used include bypassing the ballast resistor by wiring directly to a switched live on the fuse box, so I wouldn't have thought it was that. I assume with the car dying so quickly it might be difficult to test if the voltage is dropping?I've run a luminition system and while they do the job they are only as good at the distributor, with the 123 you get a brands new dizzy.
N5 NRO said:
I'm not sure how serious that advice was, so I'll resist the temptation to bite. All of your car-related advice has been very helpful though, and is much appreciated.
oh it was serious but I'll continue to help with the car advice if I can (better to sell a car that's running than one that's not)there's a Midget owner with a similar problem with an Accuspark and IIRC another B owner so if/when they resolve their problems we'll see if the solution is applicable in your case
nta16 said:
oh it was serious but I'll continue to help with the car advice if I can (better to sell a car that's running than one that's not)
In that case I'll point out that the car isn't being sold - its worth more to us than anyone else and we have no need to sell it. It was taken off the road last year due to underbody rust and I'm enrolling on a welding course starting in September to take care of that in winter. I decided summer was a good time to get the mechanicals sorted first.As for the comments about having my cake and eating it and expecting other people to pay for my stuff, I'm not sure where that impression came from - I've not been out of full-time education or employment for 21 years and everything I have I paid for. All my cars, insurance and driving lessons were paid for by me and my house was bought without any financial support from relatives, on top of which neither my girlfriend nor I have any debt aside from a mortgage.
nta16 said:
there's a Midget owner with a similar problem with an Accuspark and IIRC another B owner so if/when they resolve their problems we'll see if the solution is applicable in your case
I'd be interested to hear what the issues turn out to be, although I am most likely to go with a kit from a more reputable company.you missed the preface word 'unless' - at your age you should you should be used to reading more carefully and be a bit more relaxed and used to banter - you still need to prioritize, mortgage interest rates used to be 15% at one time you know they wont always be at the present low rate, probably better to pay off interest at the current very low rates than possible future higher rates
back to cars -
if I see any final replies I'll let you know, some posters don't ever post the conclusion
back to cars -
if I see any final replies I'll let you know, some posters don't ever post the conclusion
Midget owner thinks the problems was/were - poor fit of spade connectors, possibly turning the dissy too far and low battery charge - possibly a combination of all three, car is yet to be road tested
a battery in good condition and fully charge with the clamps, main leads and earths all clean, secure and protected will help with finding starting and electrical problem but a battery that got low in charge can hinder and even hide when you've resolved the problem
as you're absorbed with the problem it's hard to notice the point at which the battery become discharged where it seems ok but is actually below what is needed to get the car running
always fully charge the battery after lots of unsuccessfully attempts to start the car
a battery in good condition and fully charge with the clamps, main leads and earths all clean, secure and protected will help with finding starting and electrical problem but a battery that got low in charge can hinder and even hide when you've resolved the problem
as you're absorbed with the problem it's hard to notice the point at which the battery become discharged where it seems ok but is actually below what is needed to get the car running
always fully charge the battery after lots of unsuccessfully attempts to start the car
I had very similar problems with that same brand of ignition for my TR4. Spent ages trying to figure out what went wrong to no avail.
Refitted the points and condenser and all was well.
Chuck the electronic rubbish and get the engine running again! It always helps to go back to a known start point with everything running. The "B" series engine will run (albeit badly) with wildly wrong ignition timing, and the new unit is unlikely to be more than a few degrees out. The unit is probably knackered.
Refitted the points and condenser and all was well.
Chuck the electronic rubbish and get the engine running again! It always helps to go back to a known start point with everything running. The "B" series engine will run (albeit badly) with wildly wrong ignition timing, and the new unit is unlikely to be more than a few degrees out. The unit is probably knackered.
nta16 said:
Midget owner thinks the problems was/were - poor fit of spade connectors, possibly turning the dissy too far and low battery charge - possibly a combination of all three, car is yet to be road tested
a battery in good condition and fully charge with the clamps, main leads and earths all clean, secure and protected will help with finding starting and electrical problem but a battery that got low in charge can hinder and even hide when you've resolved the problem
as you're absorbed with the problem it's hard to notice the point at which the battery become discharged where it seems ok but is actually below what is needed to get the car running
always fully charge the battery after lots of unsuccessfully attempts to start the car
Thanks for the update - will get the battery plugged in this evening and make sure it's fully charged for my next attempt. If that still doesn't work I'll be reverting to points and condenser for the time being until I have a better electronic kit. Thanks again for all your help - will keep this thread updated if I manage to make any progress.a battery in good condition and fully charge with the clamps, main leads and earths all clean, secure and protected will help with finding starting and electrical problem but a battery that got low in charge can hinder and even hide when you've resolved the problem
as you're absorbed with the problem it's hard to notice the point at which the battery become discharged where it seems ok but is actually below what is needed to get the car running
always fully charge the battery after lots of unsuccessfully attempts to start the car
LordBretSinclair said:
OP. . .so like me and no doubt others you took the leap into electronic ignition thinking it would be a worthwhile and reliable step forward for the old girl and hey presto it doesn't play ball !! frustrating with a capital 'F' for sure.
In my case for the Midget I have I went Pertronix and red rotor arm, then it wouldn't fire. To get to the bit your interested in, changing the HT leads made the difference on my car. I guess whilst the others were the silicon variety and they hadn't done many miles their age was likely significant and this made all the difference for my car at least.
In my case for the Midget I have I went Pertronix and red rotor arm, then it wouldn't fire. To get to the bit your interested in, changing the HT leads made the difference on my car. I guess whilst the others were the silicon variety and they hadn't done many miles their age was likely significant and this made all the difference for my car at least.
Nick, please do report back as you've seen some report Accuspark not working whilst many others report that they are good so if you have a faulty unit then the supplier would change it (as long as you haven't burnt it out by fitting it wrong perhaps)
I noted your HT leads but if they're working then obviously hold on to them but if you have a good electronic igniter head (or better still fully electronic dissy) then to take full advantage of it good quality HT leads in good condition will help
rather than buy the usual leads from the usual suppliers I can strongly recommend a British manufacturer that makes high quality leads, among other things, for some others to put their name on, I've no interest other than as a satisfied customer
because they manufacturer for others they only do phone sales via their web site, personal service though, proven slight improvements from a sceptical MGB head and engine builder and tuner, Peter Burgess, - 'performanceleads' - http://www.performanceleads.co.uk/
and you can open the gap on the plugs to give a bigger end spark
I noted your HT leads but if they're working then obviously hold on to them but if you have a good electronic igniter head (or better still fully electronic dissy) then to take full advantage of it good quality HT leads in good condition will help
rather than buy the usual leads from the usual suppliers I can strongly recommend a British manufacturer that makes high quality leads, among other things, for some others to put their name on, I've no interest other than as a satisfied customer
because they manufacturer for others they only do phone sales via their web site, personal service though, proven slight improvements from a sceptical MGB head and engine builder and tuner, Peter Burgess, - 'performanceleads' - http://www.performanceleads.co.uk/
and you can open the gap on the plugs to give a bigger end spark
Edited by nta16 on Monday 9th June 13:52
From bitter experience there may be an issue here that I had with a similar Electronic Ignition kit..
There are thrust washers/shims between the distributor shaft and the distributor body top bearing. Whilst the pick up and trigger ring appear not to be height sensitive, and in appearance seem to have a lot of height tolerance let me assure they do not..
I went through several hours fault diagnosis, two units, reverting back to points several times, and coil changes etc. Removal of one of these shims resolved the issue.
Same 45D4 unit as yours. Mine, however, would produce no spark at all so completely failing to trigger. The shim/washer removed was <20 thou.
There are thrust washers/shims between the distributor shaft and the distributor body top bearing. Whilst the pick up and trigger ring appear not to be height sensitive, and in appearance seem to have a lot of height tolerance let me assure they do not..
I went through several hours fault diagnosis, two units, reverting back to points several times, and coil changes etc. Removal of one of these shims resolved the issue.
Same 45D4 unit as yours. Mine, however, would produce no spark at all so completely failing to trigger. The shim/washer removed was <20 thou.
Thanks again for all the advice and suggestions - I will definitely keep this thread updated with any progress I manage to make.
I know that my HT leads are (or at least were very recently) working, however they are a few years old and weren't the highest quality, so were due to be replaced anyway - I'll get this done sooner rather than later.
As for the shim/washer removal - I'll have a look into it, however as I've tested for a spark at the plugs and something's definitely getting through (even though it may not be enough to maintain the engine), I'm assuming that may not be the problem with my car?
The car's now plugged in and I'm hoping to get a couple of hours in the garage at the weekend to see if I can get any further.
I know that my HT leads are (or at least were very recently) working, however they are a few years old and weren't the highest quality, so were due to be replaced anyway - I'll get this done sooner rather than later.
As for the shim/washer removal - I'll have a look into it, however as I've tested for a spark at the plugs and something's definitely getting through (even though it may not be enough to maintain the engine), I'm assuming that may not be the problem with my car?
The car's now plugged in and I'm hoping to get a couple of hours in the garage at the weekend to see if I can get any further.
pain though it is it might be an idea to get the batteries out of the car to charge slow them and that way you can check the post clamps are all clean and secure and the major leads and earths are in good condition particularly the long live lead
one chap found that although his leads looked OK he found under the plastic insulation the wire had crud
with the batteries out it also means you can check the condition of them better, clean post and tops of batteries, check electrode levels and top up if required
it also means if you have a slow drain on the batteries from something on the car the battery charger isn't fighting against it
it always pays to have batteries well charged and in good condition and connectors clean, secure and protected
a John Twist older vid on batteries - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnbQ2G5K2zI
one chap found that although his leads looked OK he found under the plastic insulation the wire had crud
with the batteries out it also means you can check the condition of them better, clean post and tops of batteries, check electrode levels and top up if required
it also means if you have a slow drain on the batteries from something on the car the battery charger isn't fighting against it
it always pays to have batteries well charged and in good condition and connectors clean, secure and protected
a John Twist older vid on batteries - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnbQ2G5K2zI
nta16 said:
pain though it is it might be an idea to get the batteries out of the car to charge slow them and that way you can check the post clamps are all clean and secure and the major leads and earths are in good condition particularly the long live lead
one chap found that although his leads looked OK he found under the plastic insulation the wire had crud
with the batteries out it also means you can check the condition of them better, clean post and tops of batteries, check electrode levels and top up if required
it also means if you have a slow drain on the batteries from something on the car the battery charger isn't fighting against it
it always pays to have batteries well charged and in good condition and connectors clean, secure and protected
a John Twist older vid on batteries - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnbQ2G5K2zI
Thanks for those suggestions - will try to get the battery out one evening this week. I've just replaced a rather perished earth lead, so at least I know that's in good condition. I'm planning to work my way through all of the mechanical bits on the car this summer and replace anything that might need it in the future, so will definitely check everything over when I next get a bit of time in the garage.one chap found that although his leads looked OK he found under the plastic insulation the wire had crud
with the batteries out it also means you can check the condition of them better, clean post and tops of batteries, check electrode levels and top up if required
it also means if you have a slow drain on the batteries from something on the car the battery charger isn't fighting against it
it always pays to have batteries well charged and in good condition and connectors clean, secure and protected
a John Twist older vid on batteries - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnbQ2G5K2zI
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