1980 Lotus Elite 504
Discussion
kev b said:
Rear view mirror mounted upside down on the dash top is worthy of Citroen and the glass between the rear seats and the boot is unusual as well.
Yep, love that mirror, was surprised to find the rear glass between the seat and the boot but it's to seal the fuel tank from the passenger compartment.Really didn't know a great deal about these before i bought it (still learning), looking at the shape (googled pics of Elite's) i imagined the rear seats folding down like a Scimitar, so maybe it'd be quite practical, maybe even get my mountain bike in the back, HA, fat chance
I fitted a K&N filter in my airbox (it's from a TR7 or Jag XJ6), because a K&N is less likely to catch fire than a paper element when the carbs flood and spit back. The airbox is glassfibre not metal so it's best not to have flames in there.
The carbs and fuel lines are prone to leaking as well, so best check those carefully before running the motor. There is an electrical fuel cut-off valve just under the bulkhead which stops the carbs draining back to the tank if you park uphill. This can cause a lot of head scratching if the lead falls off.
However don't remove it, as if you do, then park facing downhill, the tank may drain out through the carbs. Then it won't really matter if your air filter element is paper or not!
The carbs and fuel lines are prone to leaking as well, so best check those carefully before running the motor. There is an electrical fuel cut-off valve just under the bulkhead which stops the carbs draining back to the tank if you park uphill. This can cause a lot of head scratching if the lead falls off.
However don't remove it, as if you do, then park facing downhill, the tank may drain out through the carbs. Then it won't really matter if your air filter element is paper or not!
Had a 503 many years ago, rule 1- Fuel lines, they used a plastic line that went brittle with age,if I remember it ran down the inside of the chassis, then ran towards the front baulkhead, check this pipe, along with the unions to the delortos, fuel leaks and fires were so common that the owners club used to do a kit to solve the issue. I was lucky as the chassis was cleaned and repainted that these lines I replced, on taking them out I was horrified at their condition.
Very 70's and great handling fun- also keep a set spare of the bolts for the diff, they also carry a suspension arm and are prone to issues (Like snapping)!
Very 70's and great handling fun- also keep a set spare of the bolts for the diff, they also carry a suspension arm and are prone to issues (Like snapping)!
They were typical Lotus, suspension pared down to a minimum, for weight saving allegedly but more likely to use up what they had on the shelf.
Elites have Triumph Herald front suspension which is ok for Elans, not Elites at twice the weight
Rear suspension is a clever design but making the driveshafts double as top links was never going to work on such a heavy car.
The U/Js didn't last long, not surprising as they have to transmit the the power, support the car, withstand cornering forces and take all the rear braking loads all whilst hammering up and down.
Jaguar made it work but a Jaguar IRS is much beefier and uses real bearings not rubber.
A couple of pounds spent on paint or galvanising wouldn't have hurt and as for sandwiching a piece of foam between the body and rear chassis crossmember, what were they thinking?
It's such a shame, if the testing and build quality had been better then surely many more would have been sold. The Excel was more like the Elite/Eclat should have been from the start but the damage was done by then.
Elites have Triumph Herald front suspension which is ok for Elans, not Elites at twice the weight
Rear suspension is a clever design but making the driveshafts double as top links was never going to work on such a heavy car.
The U/Js didn't last long, not surprising as they have to transmit the the power, support the car, withstand cornering forces and take all the rear braking loads all whilst hammering up and down.
Jaguar made it work but a Jaguar IRS is much beefier and uses real bearings not rubber.
A couple of pounds spent on paint or galvanising wouldn't have hurt and as for sandwiching a piece of foam between the body and rear chassis crossmember, what were they thinking?
It's such a shame, if the testing and build quality had been better then surely many more would have been sold. The Excel was more like the Elite/Eclat should have been from the start but the damage was done by then.
kev b said:
They were typical Lotus, suspension pared down to a minimum, for weight saving allegedly but more likely to use up what they had on the shelf.
Elites have Triumph Herald front suspension which is ok for Elans, not Elites at twice the weight
Rear suspension is a clever design but making the driveshafts double as top links was never going to work on such a heavy car.
The U/Js didn't last long, not surprising as they have to transmit the the power, support the car, withstand cornering forces and take all the rear braking loads all whilst hammering up and down.
Jaguar made it work but a Jaguar IRS is much beefier and uses real bearings not rubber.
A couple of pounds spent on paint or galvanising wouldn't have hurt and as for sandwiching a piece of foam between the body and rear chassis crossmember, what were they thinking?
It's such a shame, if the testing and build quality had been better then surely many more would have been sold. The Excel was more like the Elite/Eclat should have been from the start but the damage was done by then.
Cheers for sharing your knowledge Kev, i'll PM you if i'm stuck with anything Elites have Triumph Herald front suspension which is ok for Elans, not Elites at twice the weight
Rear suspension is a clever design but making the driveshafts double as top links was never going to work on such a heavy car.
The U/Js didn't last long, not surprising as they have to transmit the the power, support the car, withstand cornering forces and take all the rear braking loads all whilst hammering up and down.
Jaguar made it work but a Jaguar IRS is much beefier and uses real bearings not rubber.
A couple of pounds spent on paint or galvanising wouldn't have hurt and as for sandwiching a piece of foam between the body and rear chassis crossmember, what were they thinking?
It's such a shame, if the testing and build quality had been better then surely many more would have been sold. The Excel was more like the Elite/Eclat should have been from the start but the damage was done by then.
As for the tinkering and maintenance i dont mind that at all (worked as a mechanic for 8 years back in the late 80's early 90's), will do as much preventative maintenance as i can, already found a bit of play in the water pump so will replace that and noticed one of the twin fans is'nt cutting in but may upgrade these for more efficient ones anyway, check the rad condition at the same time.
And if it breaks down at least i'll have something nice to look at at waiting for the AA.
Feel free to ask Mark, it's over a quarter of a century since I sold mine but every painful detail seems to be etched in my memory!
You'll be OK if you are handy with the spanners, just expect every job to take longer than you think. With modern oils the engine should last a lot longer and I understand that many parts are freely available.
One job I would do is strip and clean the front trunnions in case they have been greased instead of using gear oil, get a grease gun fill it with EP90 and save it for this task. Check everywhere for cracks and corrosion before giving it any stick, and check for play in the rear hub bearings, they are from an Austin Maxi front but one of the seals is different.
Anti roll bar D bushes and holders are Ford Cortina Mk2 , my gearbox responded well to Ford synthetic gear oil from the XR4i clutch cable is from a Bedford CF van LHD and so on.....
You'll be OK if you are handy with the spanners, just expect every job to take longer than you think. With modern oils the engine should last a lot longer and I understand that many parts are freely available.
One job I would do is strip and clean the front trunnions in case they have been greased instead of using gear oil, get a grease gun fill it with EP90 and save it for this task. Check everywhere for cracks and corrosion before giving it any stick, and check for play in the rear hub bearings, they are from an Austin Maxi front but one of the seals is different.
Anti roll bar D bushes and holders are Ford Cortina Mk2 , my gearbox responded well to Ford synthetic gear oil from the XR4i clutch cable is from a Bedford CF van LHD and so on.....
kev b said:
The U/Js didn't last long, not surprising as they have to transmit the the power, support the car, withstand cornering forces and take all the rear braking loads all whilst hammering up and down.
Jaguar made it work but a Jaguar IRS is much beefier and uses real bearings not rubber.
Ah, read this earlier, had the rear wheels off to get access to the rear chassis for de-rusting/painting, popped the wheels back on, every U/J has play in it resulting in a fair bit of top/bottom movement at the wheels Jaguar made it work but a Jaguar IRS is much beefier and uses real bearings not rubber.
Dont know about the wheel bearings there was no bearing rumble when driving it, suppose i can check these when i pull the shafts out.
Good luck with that, Colin Chapmans clever design means that play in the drive shaft leads not only to drive train clunking but also alters the rear camber, the inboard brakes mean that the u/js take the full braking load as well. Best replaced with greasable joints as well.
Clever yes, durable, no.
You probably should check the alignment as well, the (rust prone) flimsy sheet steel lower arms can be shimmed out with washers at the chassis end and the toe checked using the "string box" method. People often jack the car up under these and damage them causing the rear toe to be way out.
Clever yes, durable, no.
You probably should check the alignment as well, the (rust prone) flimsy sheet steel lower arms can be shimmed out with washers at the chassis end and the toe checked using the "string box" method. People often jack the car up under these and damage them causing the rear toe to be way out.
I'm a bit envious, I've always liked these! Last year I was looking at possibly getting an Elite or an Eclat or an Excel or a Scimitar as a project. Timing and money conspired against me buying a Lotus and I ended up with a Scimitar which is currently still in pieces!
Good luck with it, at least your car is a lot more complete than my simpler and theoretically more reliable Scim!
Good luck with it, at least your car is a lot more complete than my simpler and theoretically more reliable Scim!
I used to look after a couple of Scimitars for my employer at the same time as I ran my Elite, the Scimitars had their weak spots but were built like trains compared with the Lotus.
On paper they are both plastic bodied separate chassis hatchbacks, in the real world they are chalk and cheese, the Scimitar more robust and practical but not as good to drive.
On paper they are both plastic bodied separate chassis hatchbacks, in the real world they are chalk and cheese, the Scimitar more robust and practical but not as good to drive.
Funny, i did really consider a Scimitar, would have easily have gone for one if a suitable one came up the same time as the Elite.
Got the rear shafts off earlier, everything came apart really easily, from what i understand the U/J's are a common size so hopping my local Motor Factor can get them in.
When i strip these i'll be de-greasing and painting them.
Kurust'd then painted the rear of the chassis, will blast it all with Waxoyl later.
Figured that while i have the shafts off to re-bild and paint them i might as well pull the drums off and paint those too, only one nut holding the shockers on so i may as well pull those off, paint them and the springs.
Stainless rear silencers cleaned up nice.
As did the rear wheels, just a Brillo pad and Peek.
Also read up on the front Trunnions, sound advice seems to be if the history of the car is not known they should be done as a matter of course, so i'll be fitting new ones for peace of mind.
I remember seeing a Herald snap a trunnion years ago while turning a corner, was pretty messy
Got the rear shafts off earlier, everything came apart really easily, from what i understand the U/J's are a common size so hopping my local Motor Factor can get them in.
When i strip these i'll be de-greasing and painting them.
Kurust'd then painted the rear of the chassis, will blast it all with Waxoyl later.
Figured that while i have the shafts off to re-bild and paint them i might as well pull the drums off and paint those too, only one nut holding the shockers on so i may as well pull those off, paint them and the springs.
Stainless rear silencers cleaned up nice.
As did the rear wheels, just a Brillo pad and Peek.
Also read up on the front Trunnions, sound advice seems to be if the history of the car is not known they should be done as a matter of course, so i'll be fitting new ones for peace of mind.
I remember seeing a Herald snap a trunnion years ago while turning a corner, was pretty messy
Edited by Markgenesis on Wednesday 18th June 20:55
I think I might still have a pair of trunnions in the workshop, I'll have a look, be prepared for the upright to be worn as well if it has been allowed to dry out. Check your new trunnions have no play when you fit them.
The front wheelbearings are Herald or Vitesse and seem undersized for the job but they are cheap anyway.
On the bright side your driveshafts came out of the hub, my German engineered BMW needed a new hub and driveshaft as I could not get them to part, a common problem.
My Elite was always trying to rip apart the conical bushes just under the diff, I made a reinforcing part from steel strip to link one side to the other, which helped, I believe this was a factory mod on later cars. ETA - I now see you already have one (insert red face smiley)
Keep up the good work, Elites are fantastic looking cars, I wish you well with your project.
The front wheelbearings are Herald or Vitesse and seem undersized for the job but they are cheap anyway.
On the bright side your driveshafts came out of the hub, my German engineered BMW needed a new hub and driveshaft as I could not get them to part, a common problem.
My Elite was always trying to rip apart the conical bushes just under the diff, I made a reinforcing part from steel strip to link one side to the other, which helped, I believe this was a factory mod on later cars. ETA - I now see you already have one (insert red face smiley)
Keep up the good work, Elites are fantastic looking cars, I wish you well with your project.
Edited by kev b on Wednesday 18th June 22:14
Make sure your factors gets hold of the heavy duty spec U/Js with grease nipples, normal ones won't last. Nor will the heavy duty ones tbh, but they'll last longer.
When my Elite was my daily, I used to get Hardy Spicer GSK-163s (from memory) direct from GKN but that was a few years back now. I used to get around a year out of a set (about 15,000 miles) and two years out of the Maxi wheel bearings.
Get some Dinitrol (not Waxoyl, useless stuff on old metal) into that rear crossmember, they will happily rot from the inside out.
When my Elite was my daily, I used to get Hardy Spicer GSK-163s (from memory) direct from GKN but that was a few years back now. I used to get around a year out of a set (about 15,000 miles) and two years out of the Maxi wheel bearings.
Get some Dinitrol (not Waxoyl, useless stuff on old metal) into that rear crossmember, they will happily rot from the inside out.
Edited by 16VJay on Wednesday 18th June 22:54
My mate is bulding one to race, will run a Vitec and six speed box, came of the corner weights yesterday at 698 Kg. I used to race a 2.2 910 engine in my car, make sure you join the Jensen Healy group in LA, (Greg Fletcher), they are a great source of engine and gear box parts much cheaper than the UK, Great engine but the head is better than the bottom end, Look at things like restricting oil flow into the head, (Pm me if you want picture how to do this) and opening up/polishing the oil returns is you intend to drive it hard, also look at changing to the latter timing belt and pullies.
Sump oil temp is critiacal get a good oil cooler, I've blown engine throught to high oil temp (track use)
Sump oil temp is critiacal get a good oil cooler, I've blown engine throught to high oil temp (track use)
16VJay said:
Make sure your factors gets hold of the heavy duty spec U/Js with grease nipples, normal ones won't last. Nor will the heavy duty ones tbh, but they'll last longer.
When my Elite was my daily, I used to get Hardy Spicer GSK-163s (from memory) direct from GKN but that was a few years back now. I used to get around a year out of a set (about 15,000 miles) and two years out of the Maxi wheel bearings.
Get some Dinitrol (not Waxoyl, useless stuff on old metal) into that rear crossmember, they will happily rot from the inside out.
That look's lovely in white, cheers for the advice on the U/J's, popped into the Motor Factors today and they cant get them so E-bay beckons i think, the E-bay ones look decent and have grease nips, seem cheap at £12 odd a pair though.When my Elite was my daily, I used to get Hardy Spicer GSK-163s (from memory) direct from GKN but that was a few years back now. I used to get around a year out of a set (about 15,000 miles) and two years out of the Maxi wheel bearings.
Get some Dinitrol (not Waxoyl, useless stuff on old metal) into that rear crossmember, they will happily rot from the inside out.
Edited by 16VJay on Wednesday 18th June 22:54
Never fancied Waxoyl myself but it's easy to get (Halfords), used Dinitrol once on a Capri and liked it, may need to send away for some (Frost maybe ?)
TBH this car will be far from a daily driver, wont see anywhere near 15,000 miles, will probably not even do 3K per year (summer/dry weather toy) so even normal U/J's should last a while.
Berw said:
My mate is bulding one to race, will run a Vitec and six speed box, came of the corner weights yesterday at 698 Kg. I used to race a 2.2 910 engine in my car, make sure you join the Jensen Healy group in LA, (Greg Fletcher), they are a great source of engine and gear box parts much cheaper than the UK, Great engine but the head is better than the bottom end, Look at things like restricting oil flow into the head, (Pm me if you want picture how to do this) and opening up/polishing the oil returns is you intend to drive it hard, also look at changing to the latter timing belt and pullies.
Sump oil temp is critiacal get a good oil cooler, I've blown engine throught to high oil temp (track use)
Cheers for the tips and advice, not sure how hard i'll be driving this Lotus (i'm a bit like James May TBH Sump oil temp is critiacal get a good oil cooler, I've blown engine throught to high oil temp (track use)
)When you mention the later timing belt and pulleys do you mean off the 2.2 motor in the S2 Elite ? and what's the difference ?, deeper ?, wider belt ?
Pretty certain my Elite wont see a track but an oil cooler would still be nice to have.
There are some good ideas for improvements in this presentation from Mike Taylor :
http://www.lotusbits.com/improving_your_lotus.pdf
http://www.lotusbits.com/improving_your_lotus.pdf
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