1980 Lotus Elite 504
Discussion
16VJay said:
You should get away with just removing the headlamps from their pods to get to the bolts but it will be an awkward reach into and through the pods to get to the bolts.
Cheers man, did manage to get my hand down the front of the half open pods but it was tight, mission aborted though when one bolt started turning, no way i'll be able to slip a 4.5" angle grinder in there 
As bought this car had a bad repair/cover up on the top right tailgate hinge, this can just be seen in the pic of the rear on the first page, not complaining as the seller was honest about it and pictured it up close in the E-bay add.
Removed the tailgate to find there was mostly nothing holding the O/S hinge, chipped off the smeared on P40 readymix to uncover this horror
Started of by sanding down and hollowing out the cracks, also drilled the ends to stop them spreading.
Then filled the cracks top and bottom with fibre matting and resin.
This is the other fairly good side, stress cracks just starting here though.
Made up this steel repair section, front part is 1mm but rear part is 2mm to take the strain of the hinge/tailgate.
Forgot to take more pics but i secured the steel section to the shell with 10mm bolts and self tappers, re-enforced the edges with fibreglass, built up the lip to take the tailgate seal.
Ground down the heads of the self tappers and bolts then trial fitted the tailgate.
Removed the tailgate and covered with primer for now.
Not ideal but it'll do for now, at least it's far better than it was, tailgate is secure and i'll be able to get the boot watertight (it was swimming with water when i got the car home) thing is the repair will be hard/impossible to make invisible so will need to re-think getting the car re-sprayed next year, unless between now and then i can find a scrap Elite shell with a good top corner i can cut out and let into this shell.
Removed the tailgate to find there was mostly nothing holding the O/S hinge, chipped off the smeared on P40 readymix to uncover this horror
Started of by sanding down and hollowing out the cracks, also drilled the ends to stop them spreading.
Then filled the cracks top and bottom with fibre matting and resin.
This is the other fairly good side, stress cracks just starting here though.
Made up this steel repair section, front part is 1mm but rear part is 2mm to take the strain of the hinge/tailgate.
Forgot to take more pics but i secured the steel section to the shell with 10mm bolts and self tappers, re-enforced the edges with fibreglass, built up the lip to take the tailgate seal.
Ground down the heads of the self tappers and bolts then trial fitted the tailgate.
Removed the tailgate and covered with primer for now.
Not ideal but it'll do for now, at least it's far better than it was, tailgate is secure and i'll be able to get the boot watertight (it was swimming with water when i got the car home) thing is the repair will be hard/impossible to make invisible so will need to re-think getting the car re-sprayed next year, unless between now and then i can find a scrap Elite shell with a good top corner i can cut out and let into this shell.
Progress has been slow on this due to work, waiting on parts and other stuff getting in the way but it's slowly getting there.
Got the shafts built up thismorning, used the press in the HGV workshop at work.
Got the shafts on but annoyingly found play in the rear wheel bearings, couldn't detect this before with the play in the U/J's.
I know i've been advised to retain the standard air box (good advice too) but how sexy do these look ?
, got a pair of deep K&N's coming too.
Still to change the frayed throttle cable.
Out in the sun for the first time (minus bonnet for now), paint looks realy smart in these pics and is at a glance but it's rough under close inspection, can live with it for now though.
Got the carbs tuned and it's running better, will need to change the cam cover gasket though (you can just see the oil smoke in the above pic as the engine is running and burning the oil off the manifold)
Hopefully MOT next Saturday
Got the shafts built up thismorning, used the press in the HGV workshop at work.
Got the shafts on but annoyingly found play in the rear wheel bearings, couldn't detect this before with the play in the U/J's.
I know i've been advised to retain the standard air box (good advice too) but how sexy do these look ?
, got a pair of deep K&N's coming too.Still to change the frayed throttle cable.
Out in the sun for the first time (minus bonnet for now), paint looks realy smart in these pics and is at a glance but it's rough under close inspection, can live with it for now though.
Got the carbs tuned and it's running better, will need to change the cam cover gasket though (you can just see the oil smoke in the above pic as the engine is running and burning the oil off the manifold)
Hopefully MOT next Saturday
Jings, sorry guys, forgot to update this 
Got the Lotus MOT'd ok last month, failed the first time on Anti roll bar bushes, exhaust blowing at joints and some bad earths on the lights.
Fitted new Polly Anti roll bar bushes, new SS exhaust had been badly fitted so removed it, cleaned the joints, re assembled with paste and new clamps, re test and a years MOT.
Forgot to post a pic of the engine with painted cam covers and K&N filters, fitted new cam cover gaskets but annoyingly the lower one still seems to be leaking slightly.
Started using the car for work etc but had some bad luck with it, motor was running rough, put this down to the engine needing warmed up fully, carbs needing tuned etc, few weeks ago an the way to work it broke down, after a bit of messing about (replacing points/condenser, setting timing) discovered the coil is overheating so motor starts and runs from cold but dies when it heats up, wiring has been messed with so car has had this problem in the past, fitted a new ballast resistor but coil is still getting 10.2 volts when running (should be 9 volts), it's better than it was but coil is still getting warm so going to fit another ballast resistor in line (so i'll run two ballast resistors).
Loose wire from loom is 12V feed to the coil from the starter (12V during cranking) not needed this so far but will wire it in when i get it running.
Will also re-do the crimped wire ends with soldered ones once i know it's fixed.
Found these leather MX5 seats in a breakers yard, cleaned up nice, shouldn't look out of place, a lucky find as the original seats were too far gone to justify getting them re-built/upholstered.
Will need a bit of adapting to fit but should be straightforward.
Got the Lotus MOT'd ok last month, failed the first time on Anti roll bar bushes, exhaust blowing at joints and some bad earths on the lights.
Fitted new Polly Anti roll bar bushes, new SS exhaust had been badly fitted so removed it, cleaned the joints, re assembled with paste and new clamps, re test and a years MOT.
Forgot to post a pic of the engine with painted cam covers and K&N filters, fitted new cam cover gaskets but annoyingly the lower one still seems to be leaking slightly.
Started using the car for work etc but had some bad luck with it, motor was running rough, put this down to the engine needing warmed up fully, carbs needing tuned etc, few weeks ago an the way to work it broke down, after a bit of messing about (replacing points/condenser, setting timing) discovered the coil is overheating so motor starts and runs from cold but dies when it heats up, wiring has been messed with so car has had this problem in the past, fitted a new ballast resistor but coil is still getting 10.2 volts when running (should be 9 volts), it's better than it was but coil is still getting warm so going to fit another ballast resistor in line (so i'll run two ballast resistors).
Loose wire from loom is 12V feed to the coil from the starter (12V during cranking) not needed this so far but will wire it in when i get it running.
Will also re-do the crimped wire ends with soldered ones once i know it's fixed.
Found these leather MX5 seats in a breakers yard, cleaned up nice
, shouldn't look out of place, a lucky find as the original seats were too far gone to justify getting them re-built/upholstered. Will need a bit of adapting to fit but should be straightforward.
Right, nearly at the end of my tether with this car, thought i'd cracked the running issue with the coil/wiring/ballast but the car died again when i had it out thismorning (third time the car has left me stranded, once on the way to work so starting to lose faith in it).
Would appreciate any help opinions on this, maybe something simple i've overlooked.
Friday night i started the car in the garage and ran it right up till the fans cut in (90 degrees) and it seemed fine so i was confident i'd cured the breaking down issue.
So seems to be something breaking down under load when the engine is hot.
Still running points (gap is fine) and condenser, these are new as are the rotor arm and cap, tested the leads (using and Ohmeter) these are fine (they look fairly new anyway), plugs are new and read fine (not black sooty or white), ignition timing was set with a strobe and is at 10 degrees BTDC, coil is new with two ballast resistors, reading 8.6 volts at the coil with engine running.
That covers the ignition.
Fuel, new Facet silver top pump, new inline fuel filter, new Facet pressure regulator set at 3 psi, had the tops off the carbs, these are clean inside, set the float heights, tank is venting ok, when car breaks down fuel pump runs fine and filter is full etc.
Carbs are probably slightly out of balance/needing set up but that shouldn't cause the engine not to run ?
Also when it's broken down i've not checked for a spark, usually so discusted with it i leave it parked walk away and go back to it later and it starts as it's cooled down, so i suppose i should drive it till it happens then check for a spark.
There is definitely a miss there though and it flutters when held at 2K so even in the drive i know it's not right.
Would appreciate any help opinions on this, maybe something simple i've overlooked.
Friday night i started the car in the garage and ran it right up till the fans cut in (90 degrees) and it seemed fine so i was confident i'd cured the breaking down issue.
So seems to be something breaking down under load when the engine is hot.
Still running points (gap is fine) and condenser, these are new as are the rotor arm and cap, tested the leads (using and Ohmeter) these are fine (they look fairly new anyway), plugs are new and read fine (not black sooty or white), ignition timing was set with a strobe and is at 10 degrees BTDC, coil is new with two ballast resistors, reading 8.6 volts at the coil with engine running.
That covers the ignition.
Fuel, new Facet silver top pump, new inline fuel filter, new Facet pressure regulator set at 3 psi, had the tops off the carbs, these are clean inside, set the float heights, tank is venting ok, when car breaks down fuel pump runs fine and filter is full etc.
Carbs are probably slightly out of balance/needing set up but that shouldn't cause the engine not to run ?
Also when it's broken down i've not checked for a spark, usually so discusted with it i leave it parked walk away and go back to it later and it starts as it's cooled down, so i suppose i should drive it till it happens then check for a spark.
There is definitely a miss there though and it flutters when held at 2K so even in the drive i know it's not right.
It is indeed a lovely thing to look at at the side of the road, years ago i had an unreliable 68 Charger, thought the same about that but the novelty soon wears off
Thought about the condenser but the running issue was exactly the same before i changed it and the points.
Frustrating thing is i drove it 20 miles home in June fine (though running rough), with a duff battery andf fuel pump, now it cant make it two miles
Thought about the condenser but the running issue was exactly the same before i changed it and the points.
Frustrating thing is i drove it 20 miles home in June fine (though running rough), with a duff battery andf fuel pump, now it cant make it two miles
interloper said:
Possibly mixture a bit week? In the past I had one car which would start okay, then due to the week mix (which I didn't know about at the time) would get hot, then die, because it wasn't getting enough fuel.
Plugs are reading fine though, not white to suggest a weak mixture, have been messing with the carbs but only the air bleed screws and the ballance screw to try and improve the idle.Have read something about the fuel delivery rate of the Facet pump not being able to keep up with twin Dellorto's but thought that would only be at higher revs not pootling about (which is mostly what i do)
Starting to wonder if a Red top competition Facet would be more suitable (the carbs are big 45's)
Edited by Markgenesis on Sunday 24th August 18:55
Mistron said:
I couldn't believe how many condensors I got through with my mini. It ended up being the first thing I'd check when anything went wrong, and 9/10 times it was another duff one.
Al
Condenser is easy in the Mini though, just whip the grill off, dizzy in this thing is burried under the carbs Al
Thinking about it i changed the points and condenser before i sorted the coil/ballast problem so the new condenser probably got fried if it wasn't dodgy to begin with.
May bite the bullet and go for an Aldon Ignitor kit.
kev b said:
The best thing I ever did for mine was to fit electronic ignition, after that it was just a once a year job to check the cap and lube the felt, no more guessing if a condenser was bad.
The original fuel pump was an SU as used on Morris Minors and MGs, I should think your Facet pump will outflow the original. BTW do you still have the electric cut off valve in the delivery pipe, I had some grief with that at first.
Electric cut off valve is gone, must have been taken off when the engine and box was changed.The original fuel pump was an SU as used on Morris Minors and MGs, I should think your Facet pump will outflow the original. BTW do you still have the electric cut off valve in the delivery pipe, I had some grief with that at first.
Funny, i did question the quality of points and condensers with the motor factors when i bought them, with such low demand these days the quality may be iffy, he recons most sets are not actually new but NOS, but i read somewhere most of these parts have a shelf life of 10 years.
Going to order an electronic kit during the week.
marshalla said:
Most electronic ignition setups run without ballast resistors because the electronics control the voltage to the coil.
On a points system, the ballast is there to reduce voltage in normal running so the coil doesn't overheat and start to break down. This is done because the voltage to the coil usually drops during starting because of the high load from the starter. As a result, coils on points systems are designed to work at around 9V rather than 12. During starting, the ballast resistor is bypassed and only switched in once the starter circuit is disengaged.
That's what i thought my problem initially was, had the car running until motor was running rough and ready to die, the coil was very hot, it had been hot wired to the ignition switch, fitted a new coil and Ballast resistor, measured the voltage at the coil and it was 10.2 volts, so fitted a second Ballast and it's now 8.6 volts and running cool.On a points system, the ballast is there to reduce voltage in normal running so the coil doesn't overheat and start to break down. This is done because the voltage to the coil usually drops during starting because of the high load from the starter. As a result, coils on points systems are designed to work at around 9V rather than 12. During starting, the ballast resistor is bypassed and only switched in once the starter circuit is disengaged.
Didn't help though as there is still a problem
Got an Accuspark kit ordered but thinking about it today starting to loose faith in it being the Condenser at all.
Ran out of all other avenues though.
Regarding the fuel pressure i have a regulator already as the Silvertop runs at 4-5 psi, have the regulator set at 3psi (recommended for the Dellorto's) .
Right, got the Accuspark kit during the week, dead easy to fit, built it all back up, started, ran fine, set the timing and left it at that to test it properly today.
Got it out into the drive, ran it up to temperature, then ......................... it started running rough and died
At least i can get it to break down in the drive now and not stranded at the side of the road.
So, whipped the tops off the carbs and the float chambers were dry (when i tested for fuel at the carbs before i whipped off the plastic jet cover, there seemed to be fuel there, also fuel when i undid the 16mm banjo bolt so have just been assuming the fuel side was fine).
Pulled the outlet hose off the pump in the boot and turned the ignition on, just a trickle came out, initially thought a tank blockage so pulled off the tank to pump hose, blew through it seems to be fine, checked the tank breathers those are fine, ran a feed to the pump from a petrol can at it seems no better, pump is getting 13.5V with the engine running and is earthed straight to the battery so it's all pointing to a dodgy new fuel pump.
Got it out into the drive, ran it up to temperature, then ......................... it started running rough and died
At least i can get it to break down in the drive now and not stranded at the side of the road.
So, whipped the tops off the carbs and the float chambers were dry (when i tested for fuel at the carbs before i whipped off the plastic jet cover, there seemed to be fuel there, also fuel when i undid the 16mm banjo bolt so have just been assuming the fuel side was fine).
Pulled the outlet hose off the pump in the boot and turned the ignition on, just a trickle came out, initially thought a tank blockage so pulled off the tank to pump hose, blew through it seems to be fine, checked the tank breathers those are fine, ran a feed to the pump from a petrol can at it seems no better, pump is getting 13.5V with the engine running and is earthed straight to the battery so it's all pointing to a dodgy new fuel pump.
Just pulled the pump out and bench tested it, ran a feed to it from a can with a line from the outlet back into the can, would run ok for about ten minutes then start to splutter, unscrewed the base and found some crud in and around the filter, stripped it down, cleaned it out, tested it again and it's still the same.
Apparently Facet pumps have developed a poor reputation lately so looks like i'll be shopping for a new pump.
Apparently Facet pumps have developed a poor reputation lately so looks like i'll be shopping for a new pump.
kev b said:
Keep smiling, you'll get there eventually (unless your money or patience run out first) the Lotus experience seems not to have changed since I owned one.
The last straw for me was having to re-do jobs I had already done properly, rear wheel bearings and drive-shafts being the prime example.
I sold mine, almost had to give it away with the cherished number plate the buyer really wanted, intending to buy the much improved Excel. The stop gap car I bought was a MK1 Fiesta XR2, compared with the Elite it was just as fast point to point, more economical, orders of magnitude more reliable, easier to park and way better to drive on our narrow local roads, easier to work on too.
So good in fact that I kept it and have never been seriously tempted by a Lotus since. The Elite cost me a fair bit at the time but saved me tens of thousands in the long run by stopping me buying any more exotic cars.
I still work on other peoples specialist cars occasionally but rather like grandchildren I am always glad I can give them back at the end of the day.
I watched Wheeler Dealers with the Esprit recently which brought it all back, the awkward access, the expense, tackling one job and finding three more...........
Cheers Kev, i didn't expect an easy time with the Lotus anyway, will be better once i get the running issue sorted start using it regular and will carry some tools and spares just in case (hate having to call the big yellow Taxi) The last straw for me was having to re-do jobs I had already done properly, rear wheel bearings and drive-shafts being the prime example.
I sold mine, almost had to give it away with the cherished number plate the buyer really wanted, intending to buy the much improved Excel. The stop gap car I bought was a MK1 Fiesta XR2, compared with the Elite it was just as fast point to point, more economical, orders of magnitude more reliable, easier to park and way better to drive on our narrow local roads, easier to work on too.
So good in fact that I kept it and have never been seriously tempted by a Lotus since. The Elite cost me a fair bit at the time but saved me tens of thousands in the long run by stopping me buying any more exotic cars.
I still work on other peoples specialist cars occasionally but rather like grandchildren I am always glad I can give them back at the end of the day.
I watched Wheeler Dealers with the Esprit recently which brought it all back, the awkward access, the expense, tackling one job and finding three more...........
I know the Excel is better (a lot of it is Toyota) but they still have problems, besides i much prefer the shape of the Elite to the Excel/Eclat.
Had an XR2 spec MK1 Fiesta years ago, was a green/silver Bravo, cracking little car, also loved the 3.0S Capri's i had, one of those feels bombproof compared to the Elite, but the Elite is a superb driver.
Funny you mention rear wheel bearings, i've still to do mine, there is play in them but were just an advise at the MOT, still to do the timing belt too and fix the oil leak at the top end of the engine, changed the cam cover gaskets but either the lower one is still leaking or i fear it may be the cam carrier gasket.
Just ordered one of these cheap fuel pumps (they have sold tons and the feedback is good so they must be decent ?) so will see how that goes, will also fit a filter between the tank and pump as some crap from the tank may have knackered the Facet pump.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12v-ELECTRIC-FUEL-PUMP-D...
Sorry i've not got around to updating this thread, been up to my eyes in other stuff.
Anyway got the breaking down issue sorted, found it was the new Facet pump, on bench testing it it would run for five minutes, start to splutter then die after a few minutes more (while still running), so £70 down the drain and a load of time and money chasing the fault elsewhere.
What do i think of Facet pumps now.
The new unbranded £12 E-bay pump working great.
Got the MX5 front seats fitted, have made a big difference, sit a bit higher than the standard Lotus seats but soon got used to it.
So used the car pretty regular for a few weeks but the water pump was getting noisier, not leaking but play in bearings, was wanting to fit a new cam belt too so decided to take the car off the road, thought i'd get an exchange pump from SJsportscars but it turns out my pump is so bad (impeller damaged and shaft welded) only option is to get mine rebuilt so they are dealing with this and i should get the pump back in the next week or so.
Couldn't resist cleaning up some of the removed bits.
New cam belt was easy to fit (with the bonnet off for access), tesioner bearing is fine so just left that.
Made the decission to go through the whole cooling system so have removed the rad to check it and the hoses, replace rotten hose clips etc, two mind whether to upgrade the standard fans or not ?
Also ripped out the remains of the redundand air con bits, surprising amount of weight in this alone.
Anyway got the breaking down issue sorted, found it was the new Facet pump, on bench testing it it would run for five minutes, start to splutter then die after a few minutes more (while still running), so £70 down the drain and a load of time and money chasing the fault elsewhere.
What do i think of Facet pumps now.
The new unbranded £12 E-bay pump working great.
Got the MX5 front seats fitted, have made a big difference, sit a bit higher than the standard Lotus seats but soon got used to it.
So used the car pretty regular for a few weeks but the water pump was getting noisier, not leaking but play in bearings, was wanting to fit a new cam belt too so decided to take the car off the road, thought i'd get an exchange pump from SJsportscars but it turns out my pump is so bad (impeller damaged and shaft welded) only option is to get mine rebuilt so they are dealing with this and i should get the pump back in the next week or so.
Couldn't resist cleaning up some of the removed bits.
New cam belt was easy to fit (with the bonnet off for access), tesioner bearing is fine so just left that.
Made the decission to go through the whole cooling system so have removed the rad to check it and the hoses, replace rotten hose clips etc, two mind whether to upgrade the standard fans or not ?
Also ripped out the remains of the redundand air con bits, surprising amount of weight in this alone.
Mistron said:
Is it just proving it's reputation?
Al
I don't think so, i'm just working through the neglect by previous owners.Al
I think a lot of the reputation has come from poor maintenance and neglect, also lack of preventative maintenance like the water pump being noisy, on an MGB for example that may not have been a huge problem if ignored, just an inconvenience, but on the Lotus if the pump bearings collapse or sieze, the fan belt gets thrown into the cam belt and wrecks the engine (like my engine most have lost their cam belt cover).
Years ago i ran Hillman Imps (one as a daily for a while), a car with a very poor reputation for reliability but with regular maintenance and a few mods Hillman Imps are perfectly fine (and fun), even as daily drivers in modern traffic.
I'm finding the Lotus expensive for parts though, just the parts to do the water pump and the rear wheel bearings is costing me about £300 so many would question the running cost with the value of the car but that's something that's never bothered me.
I think it's a superb looking thing though
, drives superb (when it's running) and sounds great (for a four pot) so all the hassle is worth it. Mistron said:
Did you use wrinkle finish paint on the cam cover? Looks like it?
If so, I just bought some to do the dash on the special, and I'm not sure if I'm meant to use the primer that was supplied with it, or to put it on base alloy?
Al
Paint on cam covers is just Halfords rattle can red, with rattle can primer, the wrinkle finish is just the rough casting of the alloy.If so, I just bought some to do the dash on the special, and I'm not sure if I'm meant to use the primer that was supplied with it, or to put it on base alloy?
Al
Never used wrinkle paint before so not sure about the primer on alloy, i'm guessing it'll need some kind of primer though.
Dont have a handbook BV, do you want a few quid for it or a couple of pints bought if we ever meet
Well my daily driver Discovery started chucking out smoke big time today, has been smoking on start up for a few weeks but now doing it all the time, also it's MOT and TAX are due so i may need to get the Lotus together pretty quick as it looks like it'll be my only driver for a while.
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