Embarking on costly restoration - contract with restorer?
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
Flatinfourth appears to have a rather jaded view that a written contract is inherently something to be avoided. He appears to misunderstand what a written contract is for, and also appears to have a mistaken view as to the circumstances in which a customer could lawfully not pay for work done.
I reiterate that a written contract should fairly set out the responsibilities of all parties to it. It should not be a device for one party to trap another.
The contract could cover all likely eventualities without being unduly long or complex.
Let me be absolutely clear, my own experience is that those people that look to impose a contract on the restorer are often the same people who seek to take advantage of any situation rather than adopt an accomodating posture. What that in turn leads to is the restorer adopting an accomodating posture in any situation where the client has caused a delay, and the client then trying to blame the restorer for that delay and in turn impose the contract deadline. The contract requires so many what-if clauses so as to be unworkable. For goodness sake just use someone you know and trust, and if you don't trust anyone, then you have no chance of ever being a happy classic car owner!I reiterate that a written contract should fairly set out the responsibilities of all parties to it. It should not be a device for one party to trap another.
The contract could cover all likely eventualities without being unduly long or complex.
Not quite the same but I once bought a used Saab from an independent trader with a one page warranty (above and beyond SOGA) that he wrote himself, in plain English. It was excellent, totally clear and when 6 months down the line the car threw a code he accepted another indy's opinion and paid for the work without fuss. So I sent three other people to buy a car from him.
Having something written down that agrees what major milestones should be reached, by when and at what anticipated cost (including when payment is made), plus an agreement to stop and review if unforeseen work is discovered or targets are missed without valid reason shouldn't scare either side. Six pages of definitions and another twenty of legalese agreement might not appeal to the business owner who then has to pay his own solicitor to explain it to him!
As BV says the contract exists once an agreement to pay for goods or services is made, so the paperwork should just be used to help both parties and manage expectations.
Having something written down that agrees what major milestones should be reached, by when and at what anticipated cost (including when payment is made), plus an agreement to stop and review if unforeseen work is discovered or targets are missed without valid reason shouldn't scare either side. Six pages of definitions and another twenty of legalese agreement might not appeal to the business owner who then has to pay his own solicitor to explain it to him!
As BV says the contract exists once an agreement to pay for goods or services is made, so the paperwork should just be used to help both parties and manage expectations.
Just as an update; I knocked out a draft agreement including some of the points raised in this thread and took it to a local solicitor who, I'm happy to say, was a classic car owner himself. He was able to convert my draft into a proper document and I am pleased with the plain English result which covers me and the restorer. We have both signed it and the restoration is on.
I will not tempt fate by doing running updates, but will be happy to praise all concerned once the car is complete.
I will not tempt fate by doing running updates, but will be happy to praise all concerned once the car is complete.
Breadvan72 said:
Flatinfourth appears to have a rather jaded view that a written contract is inherently something to be avoided. He appears to misunderstand what a written contract is for, and also appears to have a mistaken view as to the circumstances in which a customer could lawfully not pay for work done.
I reiterate that a written contract should fairly set out the responsibilities of all parties to it. It should not be a device for one party to trap another.
The contract could cover all likely eventualities without being unduly long or complex.
contracts 'trapping' people seem to be topic whihc attracts column inches though , although how many of the column inches attracted are based in misapprehensions ( e.g. PFI costs for minor works which include maintainance and repairs for the balance of the PFI contract it is involves adding stuff rather than simply moving it plus a contingency for returning the small works to the original agreed plan).I reiterate that a written contract should fairly set out the responsibilities of all parties to it. It should not be a device for one party to trap another.
The contract could cover all likely eventualities without being unduly long or complex.
or where a contract is written is such a way as it presumes things - some of the Patient transport contracts which were written by NHS lifers and put work best suited to the A+E service under the umbrella of PTS becasue they weren't accessed by 999 - e.g. critical care and other secondary emergency transfers ) which while they are not 999 work were in the olddays resourced by 999 crews and controlled by the 999 dispatchers .
In my experience, many public sector contracts are badly drafted. Quite often, no lawyer is involved in the drafting. This may save a bit of money initially, which disappears later on when the rubbish contract is litigated over. Of course, you can produce a good contract without a lawyer, and still get a rubbish contract if you use the wrong lawyer.
With your restoration contract, how do you deal with unknown unknowns, the inevitable extras that arise when the car is dismantled etc? I've spent a fair amount on my cars over the years and have not felt the need for a written agreement because I've trusted the judgment and skills of the company doing the work, also I've not given a scope of work (which I do write down) which is blatantly unaffordable
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