Driving classics
Discussion
One skill I learned early in my driving life was driving without using the clutch, a regular thing that had to be done if you had transits on the fleet.
not something recommended with a modern gearbox.
It puts a smile on my face when given the chance to drive something old , normally takes about twenty minutes to discover all the little fiobles of whatever I am driving.
Anticipation and preparation is soon learned in old stuff .
When trying to master an old leyland lorry gear change I was advised to pull it out of gear into neutral and wait for the revs to drop , how long does that take I asked , about as long as it takes to roll a fag I was told.Slow old things about 42 mph max and nil brakes and like steering a barge, and needed a tin of easy start every winter morning .
not something recommended with a modern gearbox.
It puts a smile on my face when given the chance to drive something old , normally takes about twenty minutes to discover all the little fiobles of whatever I am driving.
Anticipation and preparation is soon learned in old stuff .
When trying to master an old leyland lorry gear change I was advised to pull it out of gear into neutral and wait for the revs to drop , how long does that take I asked , about as long as it takes to roll a fag I was told.Slow old things about 42 mph max and nil brakes and like steering a barge, and needed a tin of easy start every winter morning .
lowdrag said:
I had the XKSS out yesterday and SWMBO still can't understand that my driving is so poor, in that the car darts all over the place. one day I'll put her Yaris on crossplies and see how she gets on.
Grow some and let her loose in the XKSS and see how she gets on 
Dons tin hat and stands back
My ex used to complain about going out anywhere for a run in my old Sunbeam-Lotus......so I said, you have a go......
She though she was pushing on the brake pedal when trying to press the clutch down, and having never driven a car without power steering, and the Sunbeam having a 'works' 2.2 quick rack fitted, she got all of 15-20 yards before quitting and getting out
lowdrag said:
I'm not sure that "delicacy" is the word I'd use though. We still thrashed them but were aware that before airbags and the rest of the gubbins existed we were playing with out lives, even at 40mph so we were more aware.
I think by "delicacy", I meant that it's more important to operate the controls in an old car with a clear understanding of how your inputs will affect the balance of the car. I was taught to drive smoothly and I teach smooth driving (see some of my other posts) and although the benefits are still obvious in modern cars, they are far more obvious in a car with low grip and primitive suspension.Experience in older cars translates nicely across to more modern machinery. Experience solely in modern cars probably would not properly prepare a driver for their first experience with an old car.
Love your XKSS by the way. One of my favourite motoring memories is of a passenger ride in a D type replica in the early 90s. Exciting doesn't even come close to describing the experience.
"Delicacy"... defined by driving a Herald convertible on crossplies through the winter! You soon learn that jerky or sudden inputs to the steering, braking or throttle are likely to end in tears... the same winter, driving the better half to work whilst negotiating black ice and uncleared snow on our lanes we came across a Shogun in a ditch, apparently the driver had only put their foot down a little "and the stupid car had lost control".... an apprenticeship with motors with less grip and more "tactile" steering may have had different results.
Similarly, years spent riding old fashioned motorcycles is a good grounding experience, if only because you are constantly aware of your mortality (and how dependent you are on the general mechanical condition of the vehicle as well as your skill in remaining upright)...
Similarly, years spent riding old fashioned motorcycles is a good grounding experience, if only because you are constantly aware of your mortality (and how dependent you are on the general mechanical condition of the vehicle as well as your skill in remaining upright)...
lowdrag said:
...I have always believed that a few years on two wheels teaches you more about road awareness than any amount of other experience.
Of that I'm certain. I grew up in Ealing in the 60s and would think nothing of cycling up to Shepherds Bush to my favourite record shop or out to Heathrow to watch the planes. You learn a lot about road sense and traffic awareness going up and down the A4 or round Hammersmith Broadway on a bike! I would never dream of going up the inside of a stationary or slow moving bus or lorry, yet I see done it all the time these days. lowdrag said:
I'm sure Spoodler will agree, maybe not all of you, but I have always believed that a few years on two wheels teaches you more about road awareness than any amount of other experience.
I was a police driving instructor for several years. On the whole, motorcyclists would make the better car students due to better observation skills and mechanical sympathy. The only thing they often struggled with was road positioning through corners, which is significantly different for bikes than it is for cars.benjj said:
Safety issues aside, a classic can be made to perform as well as many modern cars with a bit of love and care. Mine certainly do.
It's very good that there are PHers here that understand that classics are not slower to drive than moderns under most circumstances. Yes a herald would be embarrassed by a 2CV, but they are not all like that. I am lucky enough to road test cars across a huge age range every day, and there is no doubt you have to develop much more of a feel for how the controls affect the car, and the tyres will have a large slip angle, instead of steering like a dull video game style new car.
The difference is that the older cars are more rewarding to drive. I've had a 1948 Bentley MkVI in for a couple of weeks, it has mixture, hand throttle and suspension hardness controls on its steering wheel, right hand gear change, no synchro on first, rod brakes, centralised lubrication of all the swivels and bushes by a pedal in front of the passenger, and a parachute silk rear blind operated by the driver. It's owner uses it to go to Tescos, and believe me driven with a careful hand the thing has no difficulty whatsoever keeping up and passing the traffic, all with a level of elegance that would be wasted on a wag!
I agree that many well driven classics can keep up with modern traffic but I think that says more about modern traffic than anything else. Most of the time modern cars are driven to a small percentage of their actual speed potential, leaving a large safety margin in terms of cornering grip and braking ability. Apart from the sheer density of traffic on many roads and all embracing speed limits, pretty much any modern car is capable of cornering and braking harder than most drivers choose to experience because they find the g forces uncomfortable and a bit scary. As a result, compared to older cars modern vehicles are driven with substantial reserves of grip, reflecting the fact that the biggest single development over recent years has been in tyre technology.
In a classic with limited ultimate grip you feel the effect that your driving style has on the balance and attitude of the car. How you brake, steer and accelerate matters and this is what makes the driving experience so much more satisfying compared to the typical modern car where, frankly, whatever you do the car just goes, corners and stops. Only when driving really fast in a modern car (generally too fast for most public roads most of the time) do these things start to matter.
In a classic with limited ultimate grip you feel the effect that your driving style has on the balance and attitude of the car. How you brake, steer and accelerate matters and this is what makes the driving experience so much more satisfying compared to the typical modern car where, frankly, whatever you do the car just goes, corners and stops. Only when driving really fast in a modern car (generally too fast for most public roads most of the time) do these things start to matter.
When driving my 1968 saloon it takes full concentration and skill to keep it on the road. By contrast, I could make a coffee ( and possibly have)while driving my modern vehicle along the M3 at speed.
The old car is far more an enjoyable experience, but for relative short distances though.
Pushing a car to extremes is the best way to learn how you can handle it safely when the unexpected happens and this is what I did with a modified fast car in the 70's when there were not so many cars on the road. Now, most car drivers can't trust there own judgement to overtake anything as there are not the opportunities for them to learn. I remember a "skid pan" run by the local council that could be used by "Joe public" but was closed years ago, shame.
The old car is far more an enjoyable experience, but for relative short distances though.
Pushing a car to extremes is the best way to learn how you can handle it safely when the unexpected happens and this is what I did with a modified fast car in the 70's when there were not so many cars on the road. Now, most car drivers can't trust there own judgement to overtake anything as there are not the opportunities for them to learn. I remember a "skid pan" run by the local council that could be used by "Joe public" but was closed years ago, shame.
felixlighter said:
I remember a "skid pan" run by the local council that could be used by "Joe public" but was closed years ago, shame.
Yup, there used to be one near where I grew in in West London, was at the roundabout junction of the A40 and Kensington Road. The cars used were a handfull of Series V/VI Hillman Minx's. Local TrafPlod used to make a lot of use of it as well, as well as being open to Joe Public.It closed down in the mid 70's as that bit of land it occupied was earmarked for part of the re-modeling of the A40 across that junction into a sort of flyover.
aeropilot said:
lowdrag said:
I had the XKSS out yesterday and SWMBO still can't understand that my driving is so poor, in that the car darts all over the place. one day I'll put her Yaris on crossplies and see how she gets on.
Grow some and let her loose in the XKSS and see how she gets on Luckily the XKSS has no seat adjustment, so her teeny legs don't reach the pedals! I did sit her in the E-type but she panicked just at the sight of that long bonnet!
Quote 52classic, "Don't get me wrong, modern cars are universally good IMHO. - But so are modern washing machines and 'fridges although my heart doesn't miss a beat when we buy one of those!" Good but not built to last. An early memeory of mine was my mother buying a Bendix washing machine, that was still her only washing machine when Dad retired, about thirty years later. They do NOT make'em like they used to!
And Blackburn skidpan was run by Lancashire CC. You could hire it for an evening, it came with two driving instructors for less than a fiver a person, excellent value. But the local yobs repeatedly broke in, trashed the cars and the garages, so they closed it down. Shame.
JOhn
And Blackburn skidpan was run by Lancashire CC. You could hire it for an evening, it came with two driving instructors for less than a fiver a person, excellent value. But the local yobs repeatedly broke in, trashed the cars and the garages, so they closed it down. Shame.
JOhn
Edited by tapkaJohnD on Monday 4th August 09:14
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