The Range Rover Classic thread:
Discussion
phib said:
Official factory one or a rebuilt one from a "specialist" think the factory one looks great value !!
I suspect I know which one would hold its value, given the type of people that buy these I cant see anyone buying anything but a factory one
Phib
Rumour is that all 10 are sold. I suspect I know which one would hold its value, given the type of people that buy these I cant see anyone buying anything but a factory one
Phib
Which would mean the factory sold 10 for a minimum of £135/- in under a week versus the sale of one restomod in two years!
I think it depends what you want...
I suspect that the LR version will only be 100% the same as from the factory, a company like Kinglsey may well give you more choice, so if you want a nuts and bolt restoration back to original you can (and 1/3 off the LR price), or you can choose from a range of upgrades, more akin to singer porsches / eagle e-types / etc. I think that there is a place for both - whether the LR version will maintain a £45k premium is yet to be seen, but yes there will be those who will pay that premium just to say that it was rebuilt by LR - it is why Aston works does so well etc. Is it all that different? Probably not - both companies could use the identical parts, there is simply a price premium on the LR version...
I don't think I am the person who would pay an extra £45k just for the LR invoice - especially as I think that they are overpriced - which could mean they will not keep that value... but yes, there will be those who prefer that...
I suspect that the LR version will only be 100% the same as from the factory, a company like Kinglsey may well give you more choice, so if you want a nuts and bolt restoration back to original you can (and 1/3 off the LR price), or you can choose from a range of upgrades, more akin to singer porsches / eagle e-types / etc. I think that there is a place for both - whether the LR version will maintain a £45k premium is yet to be seen, but yes there will be those who will pay that premium just to say that it was rebuilt by LR - it is why Aston works does so well etc. Is it all that different? Probably not - both companies could use the identical parts, there is simply a price premium on the LR version...
I don't think I am the person who would pay an extra £45k just for the LR invoice - especially as I think that they are overpriced - which could mean they will not keep that value... but yes, there will be those who prefer that...
I think for the people we are talking about then £95k - £135k is nothing.
I know of 2 of the ten people buying the new ones and they wouldn't have even considered a Kingsly version but I do agree there will be a place for both.
I just know where my money would go !! I think you will find there will be a few more than 10
Phib
I know of 2 of the ten people buying the new ones and they wouldn't have even considered a Kingsly version but I do agree there will be a place for both.
I just know where my money would go !! I think you will find there will be a few more than 10
Phib
It is quite fascinating psychology...
If LR and Kingsley (other companies may also exist
) were to both take equivalent cars / both strip them down / both apply the exact same techniques to how they restore / both use exactly the same pieces to restore the car etc. then at a pure logic level there can be no difference and therefore the LR version is not worth 50% more...
However, I think for some people there will always be a quasi-authenticity behind it being restored by LR, even though it could be identical; and therefore a sense of anyone else's version not being correct / not be the real deal - and on that basis the LR surcharge may well seem reasonable...
There is perhaps also a sense of exclusivity - only 10 from LR (of course that won't be the final count, but sounds good for now) - a limited run means that your car is more exclusive and you are buying something that no-one else can have (outside the other 9 and all the future ones!)
There is also the psychology of back-street garage v. manufacturer - a bit of a social / class game going on...
having your car restored by a 3rd party company is lower status / by the manufacturer is higher status... of course the real status lies in the original unrestored car which has been in the family for 40+ years - but we are looking here at those who are using money to buy into something they don't have... ultimately there will always be a slight sense of over-restored cars from both - with no history left, so arguably both are a bit fake
If LR and Kingsley (other companies may also exist
) were to both take equivalent cars / both strip them down / both apply the exact same techniques to how they restore / both use exactly the same pieces to restore the car etc. then at a pure logic level there can be no difference and therefore the LR version is not worth 50% more...However, I think for some people there will always be a quasi-authenticity behind it being restored by LR, even though it could be identical; and therefore a sense of anyone else's version not being correct / not be the real deal - and on that basis the LR surcharge may well seem reasonable...
There is perhaps also a sense of exclusivity - only 10 from LR (of course that won't be the final count, but sounds good for now) - a limited run means that your car is more exclusive and you are buying something that no-one else can have (outside the other 9 and all the future ones!)
There is also the psychology of back-street garage v. manufacturer - a bit of a social / class game going on...
having your car restored by a 3rd party company is lower status / by the manufacturer is higher status... of course the real status lies in the original unrestored car which has been in the family for 40+ years - but we are looking here at those who are using money to buy into something they don't have... ultimately there will always be a slight sense of over-restored cars from both - with no history left, so arguably both are a bit fake
Yup. The exact reason why Damon created the Kingsley brand. To add that value. In this instance the factory brand is just more powerful.
Likewise, people will pay £50k for an Overfinch but a better Chevy conversion done by an unknown bloke in a shed is probably worth less than the original Rangie it started out as.
Likewise, people will pay £50k for an Overfinch but a better Chevy conversion done by an unknown bloke in a shed is probably worth less than the original Rangie it started out as.
I totally get the factory resto and the people who want one but I'd see it as more of an investment rather than an everyday useable car - I'd personally take the Kingsley and have it as an everyday driver (I'm not rich enough for either) but if it were a toss up between the latest RR or the Kingsley RRC - I'd have the RRC - I'm guessing they're a similar price these days?
wildcat45 said:
So how does this factory restoration work?
Do you hand them a car and tell them the spec? Or do they only make say your 1978 2-door exactly like it was when new? No colour or spec choice?
I'd be fascinated to know the process if anyone can tell me.
They've already sourced the ten cars is my understanding. They went all over the globe last year trying to find solid cars that were also unmolested. They've also been buying up the NOS parts from all the main people who are sitting on stuff to complete them to Year spec. I believe that beyond these ten they need to start getting key parts put back into manufacture. Do you hand them a car and tell them the spec? Or do they only make say your 1978 2-door exactly like it was when new? No colour or spec choice?
I'd be fascinated to know the process if anyone can tell me.
i have had some interaction on twitter with the lady who seems to be in charge of these resto builds
am not sure she knew my 4 door was an In Vogue as I correctly labelled it, as she then referred to it as a Vogue
I asked why they had started with a 78 and didnt get an answer
surely the factory thing would be best applied to suffix A or maybe they couldnt source any??
the Kingsley car is completely the wrong comparison but I think you are right to mention Eagle and Singer (albeit I suspect their product is somewhat superior)
the right comparison is the red early car that sold at auction (Honychurch) ...was it £80 or £100k i cant recall...
OR the JD Classics car that they want £114k for ....
relative to those I agree the "factory" cachet easily counts for the £££
ferrari classiche etc blah blah
none of this means the work is better, or that the car is good to drive mind you. but these restos are simply financial assets that appreciate tax free. and might 1x a year go to the Revival carpark
bottom line...factory involvement...big prices...lots of mag articles etc...next thing probably GQ and FT how to spend it section...end result prices up.
hope so anyway as I am "fully invested". (or as the mrs sees it "have an addiction")
am not sure she knew my 4 door was an In Vogue as I correctly labelled it, as she then referred to it as a Vogue
I asked why they had started with a 78 and didnt get an answer
surely the factory thing would be best applied to suffix A or maybe they couldnt source any??
the Kingsley car is completely the wrong comparison but I think you are right to mention Eagle and Singer (albeit I suspect their product is somewhat superior)
the right comparison is the red early car that sold at auction (Honychurch) ...was it £80 or £100k i cant recall...
OR the JD Classics car that they want £114k for ....
relative to those I agree the "factory" cachet easily counts for the £££
ferrari classiche etc blah blah
none of this means the work is better, or that the car is good to drive mind you. but these restos are simply financial assets that appreciate tax free. and might 1x a year go to the Revival carpark
bottom line...factory involvement...big prices...lots of mag articles etc...next thing probably GQ and FT how to spend it section...end result prices up.
hope so anyway as I am "fully invested". (or as the mrs sees it "have an addiction")
Well, let's hope for JLR sake that the cars are spot on when finished. Could make ten people litigious against JLR. My experience of OEM re-creations is that they do not know as much as they suggest they know. Is Kingsley the expert that beats JLR on detail? Have not a clue. Never dealt with them.
SDB660 said:
Well, let's hope for JLR sake that the cars are spot on when finished. Could make ten people litigious against JLR. My experience of OEM re-creations is that they do not know as much as they suggest they know. Is Kingsley the expert that beats JLR on detail? Have not a clue. Never dealt with them.
Re the last part, absolutely not. Re the first bit, not sure buyers will be too upset as the fact that it has the JLR stamp will cover it but it is fair to say that as of a year ago the team didn't really know anything about the cars and some of the specialists they've been talking with over the last year or so will probably have given different interpretations of history. Of the two people that are having new / rebuilds, one is an original family heirloom (1991 vogue se) that the client provided , the other one has been sourced by landrover from surrey.
My understanding is at least 6 of the 10 are going to the middle east. Not sure where the other two are going.
There could be a number 11 if wanted and there is a 1991 grey vogue se that would be the base vehicle, there is also another option which is a csk I am led to believe
Phib
My understanding is at least 6 of the 10 are going to the middle east. Not sure where the other two are going.
There could be a number 11 if wanted and there is a 1991 grey vogue se that would be the base vehicle, there is also another option which is a csk I am led to believe
Phib
Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff