The Range Rover Classic thread
Discussion
Harleyboy said:
He does have an email but will give him a ring tomorrow.
I’m utterly hopeless at this sort of stuff. I just don’t have the patience to do it right. Same reason I had someone come and paint the windows at home. They’d do a better job than me and in a fraction of the time. I know it will cost me and I’m not suggesting I’ve cash to burn but even the thought of trying troubles me!
Agree. I know I'm more than good enough to replace a headlining but I also know I don't want to be trying to remove or refit one. I’m utterly hopeless at this sort of stuff. I just don’t have the patience to do it right. Same reason I had someone come and paint the windows at home. They’d do a better job than me and in a fraction of the time. I know it will cost me and I’m not suggesting I’ve cash to burn but even the thought of trying troubles me!
Harleyboy said:
Hi, I’m booked in with the Taunton guy. Seems a good bloke and has done loads of RR’s. Asked lots of questions suggesting a considerable knowledge base. I’m more concerned about the drive to Taunton….it’ll be the longest drive in years!
I’m in Malmesbury DKL. Are you local?
Once you're on the M4 you'll be able to slipstream a caravan the whole way and average 40mpg though. I’m in Malmesbury DKL. Are you local?
That's good news. I do think that they work better and are much more reliable when used regularly for descent trips. I've always had an unfounded view that British cars of that era don't like lots of short trips or being left sitting but instead a nice long drive just dries everything out, let's the oil do its job and generally keeps everything happy. Everything that seems temperamental tends to be linked to not liking being damp and going through short heat cycles.
For some time I've been mulling over how to get better main beam lighting on the Rangie.
About ten years ago I had an LSE Overfinch that had been fitted with a pair of 10cm spots on the bumper and they turned the road ahead into daylight while not looking out of place on the car.
I never felt this was the ideal solution for the '72, particularly as all the 10cm spots have a tendency to look too modern so out of place. I mulled over fitting modern workings inside period lamps but my general conclusion was that spots on the bumper just wasn't going to look right.
I considered adapting some Lucas 8 lamps as I think they have a better look, slung under the bumper but an initial experiment highlighted how having spots sat that low loses a lot of their purpose. Plus, lamps under the bumper on Rangies are a guaranteed ticking clock to inevitable stone damage.
Initial plan for the car had been to use a Bubble grille which had spots embedded and would look period and unobtrusive but that plan was thwarted due to the auto transmission and its oil cooler having to be behind the grille leaving no space for a pair of lamps where they'd look standard. Modern flat LEDs were considered but they were still too deep and the glass/lens was too modern.
To cut to the chase, I decided to experiment with LED light bars mounted vertically in the standard grille slats. My thinking was that these would result in the least obtrusive look, possibly to the point of not even initially being noticed with a cursory glance. The concern was that the quality of these lights tended to be quite low and I wasn't actually sure they'd deliver any great light.
After searching online for some time, just before Christmas I found what looked to be a high output and high quality 4 inch LED bar being sold by an off-road business in Aus: https://www.4x4at.com/predator-vision-single-row-s...
I set these into a bit of phenol ply that I cut to sit behind a grille slat and then used a heavy duty, outdoor black mastic/silicone to bond the boards to the back of the grille. The final touch was a bit of glass tint simply to make them stand out a little less as modern lighting.
I tested the final result the other evening and the output is better than I'd hoped for. Driving down country lanes they completely light up the road ahead as far as you need to be able to see and on the open road are also illuminating the road ahead as well as modern main beams are generally doing.
The final look isn't terribly intrusive and an easy compromise for what they deliver:
The next problem to solve is the new generation of modern cars whose auto dim system no longer recognises the Rangie as being a car so when I have one travelling behind me they don't come off their mainbeam unless I tap the brake lights and then they go back up to main beam shortly after!! This has been getting more and more common place recently and last week resulted in me stopping the car the behind me and having to open his door to order him to stop putting his lights on mainbeam.
About ten years ago I had an LSE Overfinch that had been fitted with a pair of 10cm spots on the bumper and they turned the road ahead into daylight while not looking out of place on the car.
I never felt this was the ideal solution for the '72, particularly as all the 10cm spots have a tendency to look too modern so out of place. I mulled over fitting modern workings inside period lamps but my general conclusion was that spots on the bumper just wasn't going to look right.
I considered adapting some Lucas 8 lamps as I think they have a better look, slung under the bumper but an initial experiment highlighted how having spots sat that low loses a lot of their purpose. Plus, lamps under the bumper on Rangies are a guaranteed ticking clock to inevitable stone damage.
Initial plan for the car had been to use a Bubble grille which had spots embedded and would look period and unobtrusive but that plan was thwarted due to the auto transmission and its oil cooler having to be behind the grille leaving no space for a pair of lamps where they'd look standard. Modern flat LEDs were considered but they were still too deep and the glass/lens was too modern.
To cut to the chase, I decided to experiment with LED light bars mounted vertically in the standard grille slats. My thinking was that these would result in the least obtrusive look, possibly to the point of not even initially being noticed with a cursory glance. The concern was that the quality of these lights tended to be quite low and I wasn't actually sure they'd deliver any great light.
After searching online for some time, just before Christmas I found what looked to be a high output and high quality 4 inch LED bar being sold by an off-road business in Aus: https://www.4x4at.com/predator-vision-single-row-s...
I set these into a bit of phenol ply that I cut to sit behind a grille slat and then used a heavy duty, outdoor black mastic/silicone to bond the boards to the back of the grille. The final touch was a bit of glass tint simply to make them stand out a little less as modern lighting.
I tested the final result the other evening and the output is better than I'd hoped for. Driving down country lanes they completely light up the road ahead as far as you need to be able to see and on the open road are also illuminating the road ahead as well as modern main beams are generally doing.
The final look isn't terribly intrusive and an easy compromise for what they deliver:
The next problem to solve is the new generation of modern cars whose auto dim system no longer recognises the Rangie as being a car so when I have one travelling behind me they don't come off their mainbeam unless I tap the brake lights and then they go back up to main beam shortly after!! This has been getting more and more common place recently and last week resulted in me stopping the car the behind me and having to open his door to order him to stop putting his lights on mainbeam.
NomduJour said:
Think there’s a market for a traditional-looking 7” LED headlamp, as opposed to the spider’s-eyes DRL stuff. I put the complex-reflector Wipacs in mine - the clear lens isn’t that obvious, and they’re an awful lot better (especially wired through a relay with decent bulbs).
Yup. My main lamps are later Defender ones. The last type before the glass went super trendy. Definitely agree there's a market for modern lighting tech with an old look. When I was replacing the lamps on mine I was surprised that such a product wasn't readily available.
Wiring via a relay is near essential as even the old style lamps will burn out the switch on the earlier cars.
At 1500 lumens they don't seem desperately brighter than good H7 bulb?
One thing about the standard lamps is that they manage to get quite dirty inside and at least once a year you do need to take the lamps off and get a cloth inside to give a clean. Mine could do with this being done at the moment.
One thing about the standard lamps is that they manage to get quite dirty inside and at least once a year you do need to take the lamps off and get a cloth inside to give a clean. Mine could do with this being done at the moment.
TedK94 said:
Evening / Morning all,
First time poster long time lurker here. I'm after a RRC and can't seem to find any specific site or forum where these get posted for sale, so I thought I would post up here.
I'm looking for my next daily driver, and I have a healthy budget for a soft dash 300TDI auto, preferably in green or black. I'm not fussy about the interior but it must be mechanically perfect and the chassis as rust free as possible (no MOT failures) as I'll be doing many road trips in her if I find the right car.
If anyone knows of this car for sale, please let me know!
Thanks,
Ted
It's the million dollar question sadly. The only way to find one is to get out there with a massive screwdriver and gauge the fear in the eyes of the vendor when you show it to them. First time poster long time lurker here. I'm after a RRC and can't seem to find any specific site or forum where these get posted for sale, so I thought I would post up here.
I'm looking for my next daily driver, and I have a healthy budget for a soft dash 300TDI auto, preferably in green or black. I'm not fussy about the interior but it must be mechanically perfect and the chassis as rust free as possible (no MOT failures) as I'll be doing many road trips in her if I find the right car.
If anyone knows of this car for sale, please let me know!
Thanks,
Ted
jon-yprpe said:
It’s a very open question. Most seem to be on ebay. As DA says, take a prodding implement and go in knowing what to look for. Soft dashes are susceptible to bulkheads going - plus the usual other places - and it’s not so much the chassis to worry about as the entire body structure.
Or a safer way (in order of cost):
Jap import/Buy one and do work to your budget
Buy a Kingsley build or Twenty-Ten restore one you buy
I've seen a couple of the Jap imports now and from a sample of 2 I'm not sure they aren't just bringing in junk and tarting it up to trade on the 'Japan' factor. Or a safer way (in order of cost):
Jap import/Buy one and do work to your budget
Buy a Kingsley build or Twenty-Ten restore one you buy
If I were starting again then I think I'd just got to TwentyTen. Most of the other places you'd take it too will just be sending it to Phil anyway and adding a £20k postage charge or badging it and adding £100k London Idiot Tax.
For sheer peace of mind, I'd stick a new galv chassis on, get the body all done and treated, refurb the mechanicals and then stick the well worn body panels and interior back on.
I've just pit standard springs back on mine. I've been playing around with one inch drops and harder rates and settled on heavy duty rears and standard fronts. Nice shocks make a difference.
You might have a worn cam. They tend to like replacing from 80k onwards and there seem to be one or two lobes that love wearing more than others. But they'd have to be really, really bad to be causing anything other than a sluggish feeling like the timing is retarded a couple of degrees.
The issue I tend to find with an awful lot of V8 engine builders is that their general solution to any problem is that you should buy a new engine from them because they know what their doing and no one else on the planet is as good as them. From my experience V8D make really good pokey RV8s and RPI focus mainly on double glazing or at least their schpeel makes you assume that's what they're peddling.
How do you know the MAF is sound? Also have you tested the ECU. These days that's my go to check for a rough engine on the Lucas system where I'm confident all the usual suspects are OK.
You might have a worn cam. They tend to like replacing from 80k onwards and there seem to be one or two lobes that love wearing more than others. But they'd have to be really, really bad to be causing anything other than a sluggish feeling like the timing is retarded a couple of degrees.
The issue I tend to find with an awful lot of V8 engine builders is that their general solution to any problem is that you should buy a new engine from them because they know what their doing and no one else on the planet is as good as them. From my experience V8D make really good pokey RV8s and RPI focus mainly on double glazing or at least their schpeel makes you assume that's what they're peddling.
How do you know the MAF is sound? Also have you tested the ECU. These days that's my go to check for a rough engine on the Lucas system where I'm confident all the usual suspects are OK.
My springs are green at the back and blues now in the front.
I started out with a 1" drop all round and used the harder diesel springs at the front as the softer petrol ones were prone to bottoming. My objective there was to benefit motorway driving which it did. It drove well but over the course of 6-9 months the set up was somehow eating panhard rod bushes along with there being a scraping noise at the front on particularly hard right turns under braking such as roundabouts.
I then tried heavy duty normal height all round but that made the front air too high, they need a tiny drop and look plain weird with a tiny rise.
This is it in that set up. It sat like a clapped out Rolls:
So I've ended up at the settings that Phil at Dunsfold originally suggested and all is good. If you're going to have a roof tent on and kit in the boot then that might be the way you need to go. They put the heavier duty rear springs on the police range rovers for that sort of reason.
Re the engine. If you got unknown mileages and have no idea how it's been maintained then a top end refresh and cam change would make sense. I stick with the standard cam profile as I've tested that side of the RV8 market and in my opinion there's a vast amount of tooth sucking going on with blokes just all talking different b
ks because it's not their money they're wasting and they really don't know for sure. The standard cam works really well with the ZF ratios and most camshaft wafflers are good enough to warn you in advance of their stupidity by talking about moving the power up the rev range when there's a sodding great ZF4 box in front of them.
John Eales tends to be that chap I trust as he's the chap who has done all the Rangie engines and no just 1 ton TVRs and kit cars with heavy doses of 'because race car'.
Re the ECU, I'm afraid I don't know what to look for specifically. I've an engineer friend in the next village who has a stack of them and I just borrow one to see if it makes a difference. I've had the cold start bit fry on a couple now and it makes the car run rich, be lumpy at idle and feel a sluggish.
As for daily use. I like them. I've had one knocking about for over 25 years now. I would attack the underside and engine bay with ACF50 though as a minimum. In daily use stuff just doesn't dry out so keeping the mud, salt and moisture off the rot points makes sense. On mine I go under them at the end of summer with a hot pressure wash and give a really good clean and then spray with waxoyl diluted with old engine oil.
The other thing about daily use is that I've found the engine and gearbox really respond well to regular fluid changes and spark plugs. The RV8 has always consumed spark plugs quite quickly and regular fluid changes just keeps everything running smoothly.
One thing I would do before sending the car to anyone is a compression test. First of all it'll give a fair indication as to whether your maintenance might have to go beyond just a cam change but it's amazing how those 8 numbers on a piece of paper help focus a mechanic on fixing the car over fixing their holiday fund.
I started out with a 1" drop all round and used the harder diesel springs at the front as the softer petrol ones were prone to bottoming. My objective there was to benefit motorway driving which it did. It drove well but over the course of 6-9 months the set up was somehow eating panhard rod bushes along with there being a scraping noise at the front on particularly hard right turns under braking such as roundabouts.
I then tried heavy duty normal height all round but that made the front air too high, they need a tiny drop and look plain weird with a tiny rise.
This is it in that set up. It sat like a clapped out Rolls:
So I've ended up at the settings that Phil at Dunsfold originally suggested and all is good. If you're going to have a roof tent on and kit in the boot then that might be the way you need to go. They put the heavier duty rear springs on the police range rovers for that sort of reason.
Re the engine. If you got unknown mileages and have no idea how it's been maintained then a top end refresh and cam change would make sense. I stick with the standard cam profile as I've tested that side of the RV8 market and in my opinion there's a vast amount of tooth sucking going on with blokes just all talking different b
ks because it's not their money they're wasting and they really don't know for sure. The standard cam works really well with the ZF ratios and most camshaft wafflers are good enough to warn you in advance of their stupidity by talking about moving the power up the rev range when there's a sodding great ZF4 box in front of them. John Eales tends to be that chap I trust as he's the chap who has done all the Rangie engines and no just 1 ton TVRs and kit cars with heavy doses of 'because race car'.
Re the ECU, I'm afraid I don't know what to look for specifically. I've an engineer friend in the next village who has a stack of them and I just borrow one to see if it makes a difference. I've had the cold start bit fry on a couple now and it makes the car run rich, be lumpy at idle and feel a sluggish.
As for daily use. I like them. I've had one knocking about for over 25 years now. I would attack the underside and engine bay with ACF50 though as a minimum. In daily use stuff just doesn't dry out so keeping the mud, salt and moisture off the rot points makes sense. On mine I go under them at the end of summer with a hot pressure wash and give a really good clean and then spray with waxoyl diluted with old engine oil.
The other thing about daily use is that I've found the engine and gearbox really respond well to regular fluid changes and spark plugs. The RV8 has always consumed spark plugs quite quickly and regular fluid changes just keeps everything running smoothly.
One thing I would do before sending the car to anyone is a compression test. First of all it'll give a fair indication as to whether your maintenance might have to go beyond just a cam change but it's amazing how those 8 numbers on a piece of paper help focus a mechanic on fixing the car over fixing their holiday fund.
Little bit of a spread on those numbers. Wouldn't think that's anything to panic about as they're all pretty much between 150-170 which seems to be where I've usually found them on these engines. The disparity may well just be down to worn cam lobes. I've ne we pulled a cam from an RV8 and found even wear, it always seems to be one or two near the back that are much worse than the others.
Something to consider is that it's not exactly difficult to do a cam change at home. It's a bit of a faff getting everything off the front of a non-serp but it's quite a cathartic job and one that saves a chunk of cash. Plus, Land Rover thought of everything, saw that everyone else was fitting that engine stupidly low to the ground and opted to fit it at a height that's easy to work on.
Something to consider is that it's not exactly difficult to do a cam change at home. It's a bit of a faff getting everything off the front of a non-serp but it's quite a cathartic job and one that saves a chunk of cash. Plus, Land Rover thought of everything, saw that everyone else was fitting that engine stupidly low to the ground and opted to fit it at a height that's easy to work on.
Be careful playing with cams. They don't create power just move it.
Is yours an auto? If so, you then want the power between 2 and 3k rpm as that's where the car lives. And that's where LR put it for the Rangie.
If it's a manual then you could argue that you want the torque a little higher if you wanted to trade normal motoring for a bit of hoonolgy. More often people are moving the torque lower for off-roading but I think a lot of the time people are changing cams for the sake of changing something.
For me, I feel you really need to know the car and fully understand how you personally use it before considering other cams. And then you need to find someone who isn't actually talking out of their arse and banging on about cams that often get put in manual, 1 tonne, high performance TVRs etc. JE would be the bloke I'd trust in that regard. He seems as happy to not sell you something as others are to sell you something.
Is yours an auto? If so, you then want the power between 2 and 3k rpm as that's where the car lives. And that's where LR put it for the Rangie.
If it's a manual then you could argue that you want the torque a little higher if you wanted to trade normal motoring for a bit of hoonolgy. More often people are moving the torque lower for off-roading but I think a lot of the time people are changing cams for the sake of changing something.
For me, I feel you really need to know the car and fully understand how you personally use it before considering other cams. And then you need to find someone who isn't actually talking out of their arse and banging on about cams that often get put in manual, 1 tonne, high performance TVRs etc. JE would be the bloke I'd trust in that regard. He seems as happy to not sell you something as others are to sell you something.
whenindoubtpowerout said:
That does makes sense, as I have never driven the car with it actually behaving like it should maybe I should get to know that first. It is an auto and I do not use it off road much, and if I do never on anything major.
Standard cam it is then, saves some money as well!
I've found that when I'm just pottering down the road the ZF4 box runs the engine between 2 to 2.5k rpm. Nice motorway speed is 3k. You've then got next to no more power after 4.5k but the auto won't be letting it go above 5 anyway. Standard cam it is then, saves some money as well!
It's only by using it every day you'll find what your precice every day Rev range is and could begin to tailor the cam but even then I can't imagine you'd be deviating from the norm as you're not aiming to track it or go hunting Von Trapp nannies.
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