The nuts and bolts of the matter.
Discussion
I have some odd bolts on the Keeble. They attached a Daimler Dart caliper to the Keeble made De Dion tube.
Definitely 20 TPI. (So not 7/16 Whitworth, not 7/16 BSF)
Appear to be just a bit smaller diameter than 7/16UNF. About .410".
A 7/16UNF bolt won't go in.
A 5/16W socket is a very tight fit on the heads.
A 5/8AF socket is a loose fit.
What are they?
Definitely 20 TPI. (So not 7/16 Whitworth, not 7/16 BSF)
Appear to be just a bit smaller diameter than 7/16UNF. About .410".
A 7/16UNF bolt won't go in.
A 5/16W socket is a very tight fit on the heads.
A 5/8AF socket is a loose fit.
What are they?
So much for standards hey.
I've been trying to replace some machines screws that hold the knobs on our sideboard in the dining room, the supplied ones are just a tad too short and so one of the knobs falls off. The thread definitely should be M5 which should be simple to replace. The screw that came in the sideboard happily screws into an M5 nut, no problems. The replacement screws happily screw into the same M5 nuts no problems. But will the bloody M5 screws fit the knobs? Like hell they will.
What ever would Mr Whitworth have to say on the subject 200 years later and people still can't make nuts and bolts that fit together.
I've been trying to replace some machines screws that hold the knobs on our sideboard in the dining room, the supplied ones are just a tad too short and so one of the knobs falls off. The thread definitely should be M5 which should be simple to replace. The screw that came in the sideboard happily screws into an M5 nut, no problems. The replacement screws happily screw into the same M5 nuts no problems. But will the bloody M5 screws fit the knobs? Like hell they will.
What ever would Mr Whitworth have to say on the subject 200 years later and people still can't make nuts and bolts that fit together.
Further to the head marking. Unified bolts should normally have marked on the head "S" or "R" to show the strength. (S is the higher) Metric bolts similarly have "8.8" etc to show the grade...sometimes on the flat of a hexagon, but not usually. Unified will often have an "8"(connected circles) on the flat of the hexagon or a circular depression in the head. All should have the manufacturer's unique mark as well. "GKN", "Linread" etc.
Unlikely I think to have close tolerance bolts on Automotive, but... maybe that is what they had lying around or cheap!
7/16-20 spanner is .629/.630 A/Flat & BSF is .705
DGH
Unlikely I think to have close tolerance bolts on Automotive, but... maybe that is what they had lying around or cheap!
7/16-20 spanner is .629/.630 A/Flat & BSF is .705
DGH
a8hex said:
So much for standards hey.
I've been trying to replace some machines screws that hold the knobs on our sideboard in the dining room, the supplied ones are just a tad too short and so one of the knobs falls off. The thread definitely should be M5 which should be simple to replace. The screw that came in the sideboard happily screws into an M5 nut, no problems. The replacement screws happily screw into the same M5 nuts no problems. But will the bloody M5 screws fit the knobs? Like hell they will.
What ever would Mr Whitworth have to say on the subject 200 years later and people still can't make nuts and bolts that fit together.
sounds like you may have 2BA knobs I've been trying to replace some machines screws that hold the knobs on our sideboard in the dining room, the supplied ones are just a tad too short and so one of the knobs falls off. The thread definitely should be M5 which should be simple to replace. The screw that came in the sideboard happily screws into an M5 nut, no problems. The replacement screws happily screw into the same M5 nuts no problems. But will the bloody M5 screws fit the knobs? Like hell they will.
What ever would Mr Whitworth have to say on the subject 200 years later and people still can't make nuts and bolts that fit together.
Huntsman said:
I have some odd bolts on the Keeble. They attached a Daimler Dart caliper to the Keeble made De Dion tube.
Definitely 20 TPI. (So not 7/16 Whitworth, not 7/16 BSF)
Appear to be just a bit smaller diameter than 7/16UNF. About .410".
A 7/16UNF bolt won't go in.
A 5/16W socket is a very tight fit on the heads.
A 5/8AF socket is a loose fit.
What are they?
Hi.Definitely 20 TPI. (So not 7/16 Whitworth, not 7/16 BSF)
Appear to be just a bit smaller diameter than 7/16UNF. About .410".
A 7/16UNF bolt won't go in.
A 5/16W socket is a very tight fit on the heads.
A 5/8AF socket is a loose fit.
What are they?
What state are they in? old and rusty?
What is the state of the tapped hole? Any damage?
.410" looks like a worn 7/16" and .410" = 10,41mm, so not metric diameter.....and BSF is a whitworth form which is 55° thread angle, Unified is 60°
Clean em up and get a magnifiying glass and your pitch gauge on it again and also look at the tapped hole to see it theres any wear
Try looking up UNF thread data and check the core diameter of the tapped hole and the clearance hole on the caliper or bracket.
I'm guessing like you that its 7/16 unf, metric doesnt look likely, BSF also, leaves you Unified. If you're brave enough to try a tap in the hole, if its right and undamaged then you wont remove any material other than rust dust.
Consider that you may not be the first person to have been there!, any old bolts may have been fitted.....
23
friederich said:
a8hex said:
So much for standards hey.
I've been trying to replace some machines screws that hold the knobs on our sideboard in the dining room, the supplied ones are just a tad too short and so one of the knobs falls off. The thread definitely should be M5 which should be simple to replace. The screw that came in the sideboard happily screws into an M5 nut, no problems. The replacement screws happily screw into the same M5 nuts no problems. But will the bloody M5 screws fit the knobs? Like hell they will.
What ever would Mr Whitworth have to say on the subject 200 years later and people still can't make nuts and bolts that fit together.
sounds like you may have 2BA knobs I've been trying to replace some machines screws that hold the knobs on our sideboard in the dining room, the supplied ones are just a tad too short and so one of the knobs falls off. The thread definitely should be M5 which should be simple to replace. The screw that came in the sideboard happily screws into an M5 nut, no problems. The replacement screws happily screw into the same M5 nuts no problems. But will the bloody M5 screws fit the knobs? Like hell they will.
What ever would Mr Whitworth have to say on the subject 200 years later and people still can't make nuts and bolts that fit together.
john2443 said:
friederich said:
a8hex said:
So much for standards hey.
I've been trying to replace some machines screws that hold the knobs on our sideboard in the dining room, the supplied ones are just a tad too short and so one of the knobs falls off. The thread definitely should be M5 which should be simple to replace. The screw that came in the sideboard happily screws into an M5 nut, no problems. The replacement screws happily screw into the same M5 nuts no problems. But will the bloody M5 screws fit the knobs? Like hell they will.
What ever would Mr Whitworth have to say on the subject 200 years later and people still can't make nuts and bolts that fit together.
sounds like you may have 2BA knobs I've been trying to replace some machines screws that hold the knobs on our sideboard in the dining room, the supplied ones are just a tad too short and so one of the knobs falls off. The thread definitely should be M5 which should be simple to replace. The screw that came in the sideboard happily screws into an M5 nut, no problems. The replacement screws happily screw into the same M5 nuts no problems. But will the bloody M5 screws fit the knobs? Like hell they will.
What ever would Mr Whitworth have to say on the subject 200 years later and people still can't make nuts and bolts that fit together.
2BA should be 4.7mm with a screw pitch of 0.81mm according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Association_s...
I don't think the screw and knob on the side board are likely to be BA since it's of French manufacture (or am I being simplistic here). I found some other M5 screws that do screw into the knobs OK, only they're too short. So more M5 x50 and x45 cheese heads on order. I guess the first set of M5 screws I bought just are that good. I don't think I've got any metric screw gauges all my stuff is proper imperial measures. XKs are mostly UNF or UNC with the odd Whitworth thrown in for good measure on the fuel system.
I don't think the screw and knob on the side board are likely to be BA since it's of French manufacture (or am I being simplistic here). I found some other M5 screws that do screw into the knobs OK, only they're too short. So more M5 x50 and x45 cheese heads on order. I guess the first set of M5 screws I bought just are that good. I don't think I've got any metric screw gauges all my stuff is proper imperial measures. XKs are mostly UNF or UNC with the odd Whitworth thrown in for good measure on the fuel system.
friederich said:
a8hex said:
So much for standards hey.
I've been trying to replace some machines screws that hold the knobs on our sideboard in the dining room, the supplied ones are just a tad too short and so one of the knobs falls off. The thread definitely should be M5 which should be simple to replace. The screw that came in the sideboard happily screws into an M5 nut, no problems. The replacement screws happily screw into the same M5 nuts no problems. But will the bloody M5 screws fit the knobs? Like hell they will.
What ever would Mr Whitworth have to say on the subject 200 years later and people still can't make nuts and bolts that fit together.
sounds like you may have 2BA knobs I've been trying to replace some machines screws that hold the knobs on our sideboard in the dining room, the supplied ones are just a tad too short and so one of the knobs falls off. The thread definitely should be M5 which should be simple to replace. The screw that came in the sideboard happily screws into an M5 nut, no problems. The replacement screws happily screw into the same M5 nuts no problems. But will the bloody M5 screws fit the knobs? Like hell they will.
What ever would Mr Whitworth have to say on the subject 200 years later and people still can't make nuts and bolts that fit together.
a8hex said:
2BA should be 4.7mm with a screw pitch of 0.81mm according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Association_s...
I don't think the screw and knob on the side board are likely to be BA since it's of French manufacture (or am I being simplistic here). I found some other M5 screws that do screw into the knobs OK, only they're too short. So more M5 x50 and x45 cheese heads on order. I guess the first set of M5 screws I bought just are that good. I don't think I've got any metric screw gauges all my stuff is proper imperial measures. XKs are mostly UNF or UNC with the odd Whitworth thrown in for good measure on the fuel system.
Sorry Friederich I think I owe you an apology. I don't think the screw and knob on the side board are likely to be BA since it's of French manufacture (or am I being simplistic here). I found some other M5 screws that do screw into the knobs OK, only they're too short. So more M5 x50 and x45 cheese heads on order. I guess the first set of M5 screws I bought just are that good. I don't think I've got any metric screw gauges all my stuff is proper imperial measures. XKs are mostly UNF or UNC with the odd Whitworth thrown in for good measure on the fuel system.
The new M5 screws don't work either, I guess I was wrong to assume that French furniture would have metric threads, or maybe the sideboard was made in France but the importer fitted the knobs. I guess the other screws I thought were M5 weren't. So now I've got some 2ba screws on order.
Sorry for the interruption.
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