When can the classic car price bubble crash?
Discussion
_Leg_ said:
Thread started in June 2015, it's now the end of 2016 and nothing has changed.
Some people think that prices are mad because they still think of these things as cars. This is no longer the case. Collectible cars have moved into the same realm as stamps, art etc where normal rules no longer apply.
A dress worn by Marilyn Monroe recently sold for $4,800,000 US. It sold for $1,267,500 US in 1999. That makes the price increases in collectible cars look extremely tame.
This painting reportedly sold for $300,000,000.
A 250 GTO sold for $38,115,000 in 2014. I know what I would rather have and it's red, shiny, very shouty and would have $261,885,000 in change in the boot too. Nice.
There is a big difference between cars and paintings, stamps or Marilyn Monroe's dress. Which is that whether you use them or not, cars require continuous maintenance, and are relatively expensive to store (especially at the 250GTO end). Some people think that prices are mad because they still think of these things as cars. This is no longer the case. Collectible cars have moved into the same realm as stamps, art etc where normal rules no longer apply.
A dress worn by Marilyn Monroe recently sold for $4,800,000 US. It sold for $1,267,500 US in 1999. That makes the price increases in collectible cars look extremely tame.
This painting reportedly sold for $300,000,000.
A 250 GTO sold for $38,115,000 in 2014. I know what I would rather have and it's red, shiny, very shouty and would have $261,885,000 in change in the boot too. Nice.
Edited by _Leg_ on Sunday 27th November 11:54
Yertis said:
_Leg_ said:
Thread started in June 2015, it's now the end of 2016 and nothing has changed.
Some people think that prices are mad because they still think of these things as cars. This is no longer the case. Collectible cars have moved into the same realm as stamps, art etc where normal rules no longer apply.
A dress worn by Marilyn Monroe recently sold for $4,800,000 US. It sold for $1,267,500 US in 1999. That makes the price increases in collectible cars look extremely tame.
This painting reportedly sold for $300,000,000.
A 250 GTO sold for $38,115,000 in 2014. I know what I would rather have and it's red, shiny, very shouty and would have $261,885,000 in change in the boot too. Nice.
There is a big difference between cars and paintings, stamps or Marilyn Monroe's dress. Which is that whether you use them or not, cars require continuous maintenance, and are relatively expensive to store (especially at the 250GTO end). Some people think that prices are mad because they still think of these things as cars. This is no longer the case. Collectible cars have moved into the same realm as stamps, art etc where normal rules no longer apply.
A dress worn by Marilyn Monroe recently sold for $4,800,000 US. It sold for $1,267,500 US in 1999. That makes the price increases in collectible cars look extremely tame.
This painting reportedly sold for $300,000,000.
A 250 GTO sold for $38,115,000 in 2014. I know what I would rather have and it's red, shiny, very shouty and would have $261,885,000 in change in the boot too. Nice.
Edited by _Leg_ on Sunday 27th November 11:54
As for maintaining the cars this year I've spent less than £1000 maintaining my 6 vintage/classics, £900 maintaining my modern sports cars (£750 of which was a major service for my 997.2 GT3RS) and £300 maintaining my modern collectible/sports cars. My supercars have cost nothing as they're all under warranty/free servicing. My work horse Mercedes GL on the other hand has cost £1500 this year (new pads and discs, a service and it's wheels refurbishing).
Paintings need to be stored in high security places with special lighting so they don't fade and I'm pretty sure a $4.7M dress isn't hanging in someone's wardrobe at home too. Wherever it is it won't be a cardboard box, it'll be somewhere where it's guaranteed not to be damaged by vermin or conditions.
Bear in mind too that this is with me driving all of the cars. If the owner hung the painting in their lounge or wore the dress, maintaining them would be more expensive.
However, I bought my cars because I love cars and see them as a cost for my personal entertainment. The fact that some of them appreciate is a happy coincidence and nothing more. I wouldn't ever buy cars to make money, my original post above was merely highlighting that these "bonkers prices" that people refer to in this thread aren't actually bonkers when compared to other collectibles. Indeed, for what you get, they're cheap.
As I said, "I know what I would rather have and it's red, shiny, very shouty and would have $261,885,000 in change in the boot too. Nice.". That $261,885,000 would pay for a lot of maintenance.
_Leg_ said:
Bear in mind too that this is with me driving all of the cars. If the owner hung the painting in their lounge or wore the dress, maintaining them would be more expensive.
However, I bought my cars because I love cars and see them as a cost for my personal entertainment. The fact that some of them appreciate is a happy coincidence and nothing more. I wouldn't ever buy cars to make money, my original post above was merely highlighting that these "bonkers prices" that people refer to in this thread aren't actually bonkers when compared to other collectibles. Indeed, for what you get, they're cheap.
I agree entirely, and at the upper levels with all these things as you've said, the normal rules cease to apply – to maintain a DB5 shouldn't really cost any more than an MGB However, I bought my cars because I love cars and see them as a cost for my personal entertainment. The fact that some of them appreciate is a happy coincidence and nothing more. I wouldn't ever buy cars to make money, my original post above was merely highlighting that these "bonkers prices" that people refer to in this thread aren't actually bonkers when compared to other collectibles. Indeed, for what you get, they're cheap.
But at the lower level, if I spent £75,000 on a painting (unlikely I admit) I could hang it on my wall and that would be that – I wouldn't wear it out bu looking at it. But if I spent £75,000 on, say, a Ferrari 308 then the expenses would only just be beginning. I know a couple with a vintage Bentley. Struggled to come up with the cash years ago, and would have no chance today.
Car has been raced, hill climbed, sprinted, and done pretty well every form of motorsport known to man. When the price of these cars took off, so did the price of some spares which is more than a pain.
Car has been raced, hill climbed, sprinted, and done pretty well every form of motorsport known to man. When the price of these cars took off, so did the price of some spares which is more than a pain.
Yertis said:
There is a big difference between cars and paintings, stamps or Marilyn Monroe's dress. Which is that whether you use them or not, cars require continuous maintenance, and are relatively expensive to store (especially at the 250GTO end).
Using the 250GTO as an example, most owners will already have a storage anyway. Its like saying if you buy a painting you'll need to pay for a wall to hang it on.But storage will be perhaps £100 - 200pcm. The insurance on big ticket cars isn't actually that expensive in relation to the value, and even a painting or Monroe's dress will require some £ outlay for insurance.
Continuous maintenance? Once a year service isn't bank breaking on old Ferraris, and with every £ you put in on maintenance you are just adding to the value with its history file.
With art you can cover all your costs by lending it out. The borrower will pay all insurance, maintenance and storage costs typically.
In addition, in some cases you can generate a return by claiming tax relief on the asset under loan.
I would guess that some cars can benefit from being loaned out to museums etc in a similar way.
In addition, in some cases you can generate a return by claiming tax relief on the asset under loan.
I would guess that some cars can benefit from being loaned out to museums etc in a similar way.
I was searching for a thread and came across this from three years ago. Note anything similar people?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=126...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=126...
Obviously I was completely wrong. Only £145,600 for this beautiful example of Jaguar's finest:-
http://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2017-03...
And then of course, a mere £125,000 for this example:-
http://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2017-03...
And then this much modified LHD to RHD car was a piffling £128,800:-
http://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2017-03...
Yup, the market is surely in crisis.
http://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2017-03...
And then of course, a mere £125,000 for this example:-
http://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2017-03...
And then this much modified LHD to RHD car was a piffling £128,800:-
http://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2017-03...
Yup, the market is surely in crisis.
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