Jaguar XJ13 and others

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LDM

Original Poster:

372 posts

126 months

Thursday 25th June 2015
quotequote all
I had the good fortune to be able to visit the Mike Hawthorn museum over the weekend. There were many gorgeous cars both on display and in attendance. Most of which would be on my wish list.

I have always loved the XJ13 ever since having a toy as a kid, Would happily have one, even if just a replica.





More pics from the visit can be found at: http://driven.boards.net/thread/186/mike-hawthorn-...

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

151 months

Thursday 25th June 2015
quotequote all
Would it not necessarily be a replica?

I may be wrong (usually am) but is that not 'the' XJ13 rather than 'an' XJ13?

LDM

Original Poster:

372 posts

126 months

Thursday 25th June 2015
quotequote all
Sorry was meaning that "I" would be happy with a good replica.
The car above is a Proteus P90 XJ13 I believe.

Edited by LDM on Thursday 25th June 13:18

aeropilot

34,299 posts

226 months

Thursday 25th June 2015
quotequote all
I'm curious as to why an E-Type or XJ13 replica have a place in the Hawthorn museum given that both types didn't exist while he was alive........??


LDM

Original Poster:

372 posts

126 months

Thursday 25th June 2015
quotequote all
A fair point I guess.

The museum primarily houses a collection of Hawthorn memorabilia but not exclusively and as such there are other items within the museum including some from Jaguar's history and that of motorsport etc.

Many museums or collections also contain items with tenuous links to the other items.

XJ13

404 posts

168 months

Thursday 25th June 2015
quotequote all
Hi Lee

Yes - Nigel's car is a rather nice Proteus. Of all the replicas, I reckon Jim Marland of Proteus came closest to capturing the car's lines. Nigel Webb does have a wonderful collection and is a true Jag enthusiast - not only of the cars of Hawthorn's era.

A couple of pieces of paper fell out of an old car mag I was reading a few years ago and I immediately passed them on to Nigel. Practice sheets like this rarely survive and I saw that the date of the meeting was May 1958 - eight months before Hawthorn's tragic accident.





I posted them on the Autosport Forum back in 2010 and various posters were able to fill in some detail for me Daily Express Trophy Meeting May 1958

Edited by XJ13 on Thursday 25th June 20:53


Edited by XJ13 on Sunday 28th June 12:28

LDM

Original Poster:

372 posts

126 months

Friday 26th June 2015
quotequote all
A very nice find and something that could of so easily been lost! Thanks for sharing.

I thought it was a nice collection and in superb surroundings.

Edited by LDM on Friday 26th June 09:45

LDM

Original Poster:

372 posts

126 months

Monday 29th June 2015
quotequote all
Goodwood F.o.S XJ13 - something to compare the car above with!



Halmyre

11,148 posts

138 months

Monday 29th June 2015
quotequote all
This is an interesting site, chap has got an original four-cam V12 from somewhere and is building a replica XJ13:

http://www.xj13.eu/XJ13blog/

richw_82

992 posts

185 months

Monday 29th June 2015
quotequote all
A magnificent project, and the owner posts on here as XJ13, further up this thread.

a8hex

5,829 posts

222 months

Monday 29th June 2015
quotequote all
Halmyre said:
This is an interesting site, chap has got an original four-cam V12 from somewhere and is building a replica XJ13:

http://www.xj13.eu/XJ13blog/
Well if you'd got an original quad-cam Jaguar engine what else would you do with it laugh

Halmyre

11,148 posts

138 months

Monday 29th June 2015
quotequote all
a8hex said:
Halmyre said:
This is an interesting site, chap has got an original four-cam V12 from somewhere and is building a replica XJ13:

http://www.xj13.eu/XJ13blog/
Well if you'd got an original quad-cam Jaguar engine what else would you do with it laugh
I have heard rumours of Mk Xs used as development mules...

a8hex

5,829 posts

222 months

Monday 29th June 2015
quotequote all
They were indeed. Although I think there were differences in the way the cams were driven in the engines for the MkX and the XJ13. The XJ13's "race" engine IIRC had gear driven cam shafts whereas those intended for the road cars used chain drive, like the XK. Presumably the chains would be quieter.
I think Neville posted a breakdown of which of the V12 engines was which at one point.

LDM

Original Poster:

372 posts

126 months

Monday 29th June 2015
quotequote all
Halmyre said:
I have heard rumours of Mk Xs used as development mules...
Now that would make for something interesting!

lowdrag

12,869 posts

212 months

Monday 29th June 2015
quotequote all
Dennis Jenkinson was given the keys of a Mk X at the factory and asked to test drive it, but on the condition he didn't open the bonnet. He agreed, and of course it was a mule for the V12 engine. I can't remember if it was the quad cam or the twin cam so I'll try and look it up.

a8hex

5,829 posts

222 months

Monday 29th June 2015
quotequote all
lowdrag said:
Dennis Jenkinson was given the keys of a Mk X at the factory and asked to test drive it, but on the condition he didn't open the bonnet. He agreed, and of course it was a mule for the V12 engine. I can't remember if it was the quad cam or the twin cam so I'll try and look it up.
Wouldn't the E-Type and XJ have been around for testing work on the single cam per bank V12.

lowdrag

12,869 posts

212 months

Monday 29th June 2015
quotequote all
IIRC, the start of the V12 was around 1965 for installation in the XJ12 and was tested in the Mk X. For the life of me I can't remember just which book the story is in. The E-type V12 came out of course in 1971 but at first it was thought there wasn't enough space for it.

a8hex

5,829 posts

222 months

Monday 29th June 2015
quotequote all
I can't remember where I've got these histories either. The book collection is in turmoil at the moment as the house get re-organised. V12s are all a bit modern for me :-)
I thought the single cam per bank V12 wasn't started till late sixties, really after they'd finished with the quad cam engine. The whole thing is rather different from the XK isn't it.

XJ13

404 posts

168 months

Tuesday 30th June 2015
quotequote all
Did I hear someone mention the XJ13? :-)

Yes - as Ken (a8hex) rightly says, the second of the DOHC prototype engines (mine in fact) was tested in two Mk10s. Indeed, it was the first engine to be placed in a car and so has the honour of being Jaguar's first V12 to be installed in a car. Although the project was shelved in 1967, this number 2 engine continued to be developed and its last run at Coventry was in December 1969 when it ran on the test-bed in a series of comparison tests against the SOHC engine which was to eventually replace it. The DOHC was an out-and-out racing engine aimed at Le Mans and was simply unsuitable for a production car. Even in the Mk10's cavernous engine bay there was little room. You couldn't get full-lock for example.

Lowdrag, as Ken suggests, I am afraid you are confusing the later SOHC engine with the earlier DOHC. The start of the DOHC was as early as 1953 (maybe even 1951) and was designed by Claude Baily with the help of Gerry Beddoes. Gerry is still with us and I wrote a bit about my recent meeting with him here Gerry Beddoes of Jaguar. Development of the later SOHC engine didn't start until after Walter Hassan joined in 1965. Harry Mundy worked with him on the engine. When the SOHC was being drafted, there was never any doubt it would fit in the E-Type engine bay although it did require changes to the engine frames.

When my engine was first run in a Mk10 it still had its race-spec Lucas mechanical fuel-injection system fitted which was later replaced by a sextet of SUs.

As far as cam-drive is concerned, these engines always had chain-drive in period. The first time gear-driven cams were run in a car was as late as 1978 in the XJ13 - a good 11 years after the end of the project and as a result of the XJ13's engine being over-revved. The engine currently in the XJ13 is not the engine originally installed in 1966.

Peter Wilson wrote the definitive book on the XJ13 and put to rest the many myths previously surrounding the car. As it happens, I was with Peter yesterday during a visit to confirm routing of my car's exhaust.

Getting closer to the point where I can see for myself if there is any truth in the rumour that "adrenalin is brown" ... wobble




Peter Wilson (left) ex-Jaguar Competition Department; Nigel Boycott (right) ex-Jaguar engine builder:



Edited by XJ13 on Tuesday 30th June 08:11

XJ13

404 posts

168 months

Tuesday 30th June 2015
quotequote all
LDM said:
Goodwood F.o.S XJ13 - something to compare the car above with!


Nice pics Lee. Here's a bit of video taken last weekend.

Original XJ13 at Goodwood Festival of Speed - June 2015


Edited by XJ13 on Tuesday 18th August 18:02