Ford Mustang vs Triumph Stag

[V8 Fettler]

davepoth said:

V8 Fettler said:

By "get engine right" I mean "ensure that a reliable engine is installed", this includes design and manufacture.

I'll start with five design issues:
Electrolytic action between heads and block
High water pump
Angled head studs
Air flow through radiator
Head hot spots

Saab made a pretty damn good go at half of the engine. If the right amount of cash could have been spent on it to develop it first it would have been great, and I still have yet to hear a nicer exhaust note from a crossplane V8.

Was not the Saab 4 cylinder engine based on a Triumph 4 cylinder design rather than half of the Triumph V8?

There were issues unique to the TV8 which would not apply to the four cylinder, e.g. cooling, air flow, coolant leakage to inlet manifold.

[mph]

MoggieMinor said:

The Triumph Stag is one of the most beautiful cars ever made. Despite their well known engine issues they still enjoy a fantastic survival rate.

Would they have been better with the Rover? Matter of opinion.

Without the unreliability of the Stag engine it's probable the car would have survived longer and been much more successful.

There are several variations on the story as to why the Rover engine wasn't used , but it's agreed that Triumph management did everything they could to prevent it's use.

Good that so many survive but I can't help feeling a sense of disappointment at an opportunity missed.

I remember buying a nearly new car (not a Stag) in the 1970's. The Warranty was very comprehensive but included the wording EXCLUDING THE TRIUMPH STAG at the end of the terms and conditions. Rather sad really.

As I mentioned earlier, Triumph seemed to lack the engineering expertise to develop their cars adequately. The Stag, TR6 and TR7 must be among the most unreliable British cars ever produced. Engines being a particular area of weakness.

Luckily for us, all of these problems can now be resolved and we can enjoy some of the most stylish cars available.

[LittleEnus]

At one point, when I was 21 my two cars were a Triumph Stag (1977 man/od) and an NSU Ro80. Gluten for punishment or what?

[crossy67]

Hamish Finn said:

crossy67 said:

Hows about the Jag VK8 V8. And they're British ish.

British -ish?

Don't know if Ford owned them when it was designed. Jaguar has had quite a few owners recently has it not?

[MoggieMinor]

Ro80... Now that was a car way ahead of its time. Fantastic motor.

[coppice]

LittleEnus said:

Gluten for punishment or what?

And glutton free too..

[OldGermanHeaps]

[//j17]

mph said:

There are several variations on the story as to why the Rover engine wasn't used , but it's agreed that Triumph management did everything they could to prevent it's use.

Triumph didn't want the Rover V8 because they didn't want to be seen as using an engine from/be subservient to 'the competition'.
Rover didn't want to let Triumph use the Rover V8 because they didn't want to lose sales/be subservient to 'the competition'.
From 1967, the period when the Stag was being developed both Triumph and Rover were divisions of the Leyland Motor Company.

Edited by //j17 on Monday 17th August 09:30

[Johnspex]

At that time weren't BL producing several larger capacity engines of various configurations?
Rover V8, Triumph V8, Triumph straight 6, Jaguar straight 6, Daimler 2.5 V8.

I've probably got that all wrong but I seem to remember reading that in a car mag of that time.

[Hooli]

Yertis said:

Putting a Japanese engine into a Stag feels wrong to me. I'm about to try a Toyota gearbox in my TR6 - that feels wrong too

That'd feel wrong to me too.

[a8hex]

Hooli said:

Yertis said:

Putting a Japanese engine into a Stag feels wrong to me. I'm about to try a Toyota gearbox in my TR6 - that feels wrong too

That'd feel wrong to me too.

I've heard of people putting the Supra gearbox in XKs too. :-(

[exitwound]

They're both excellent cars. Never driven a Mustang, but I've done lots of miles in a Stag and they are great cars.

Was looking for a reasonably priced, rust free Stag and bought the Corvette instead. Faster, more comfy, easy to maintain and better mpg too.. Once you adjust a Corvette's camber (1.5deg -ve)and caster (7deg+ve) a tad, it handles perfectly, but I still like Stags.. Odd driving position with that angled steering wheel, but you quickly get used to it.

[Hamish Finn]

crossy67 said:

Hamish Finn said:

crossy67 said:

Hows about the Jag VK8 V8. And they're British ish.

British -ish?

Don't know if Ford owned them when it was designed. Jaguar has had quite a few owners recently has it not?

You don't know?

But you've misunderstood my question. You state that the Jaguar V8 is British-ish. I can only take from that comment that you don't think the engine is British? Care to elaborate, with some facts?

[garagewidow]

a8hex said:

I've heard of people putting the Supra gearbox in XKs too. :-(

some use the ford t9 although not in the xk obviously.
if you are going the 5spd route you might as well 'go large'.ford or jap to me it doesn't matter once you deviate.

my triumph has a Toyota box and hopefully anything the straight 6 can throw at it is not going to trouble it.

if they made the stag like the one samuri has it would have cleaned up.....

then again his stang' looks mean too.

[a8hex]

garagewidow said:

a8hex said:

I've heard of people putting the Supra gearbox in XKs too. :-(

some use the ford t9 although not in the xk obviously.
if you are going the 5spd route you might as well 'go large'.ford or jap to me it doesn't matter once you deviate.

my triumph has a Toyota box and hopefully anything the straight 6 can throw at it is not going to trouble it.

if they made the stag like the one samuri has it would have cleaned up.....

then again his stang' looks mean too.

Actually my XK150 now has basically a Ford MT75 box after it ate the overdrive unit I'd had installed when I also had a 4.2 unit fitted.

Guy Broad does a gearbox for the XK which is also useful for E types. It's a custom casing with the MT75 internals. Doesn't have the character of the Moss box but should take everything that the xk can throw at it.

[mph]

a8hex said:

Actually my XK150 now has basically a Ford MT75 box after it ate the overdrive unit I'd had installed when I also had a 4.2 unit fitted.

Guy Broad does a gearbox for the XK which is also useful for E types. It's a custom casing with the MT75 internals. Doesn't have the character of the Moss box but should take everything that the xk can throw at it.

I wouldn't recommend the Guy Broad box for E Types it's a nightmare to fit.

[a8hex]

mph said:

a8hex said:

Actually my XK150 now has basically a Ford MT75 box after it ate the overdrive unit I'd had installed when I also had a 4.2 unit fitted.

Guy Broad does a gearbox for the XK which is also useful for E types. It's a custom casing with the MT75 internals. Doesn't have the character of the Moss box but should take everything that the xk can throw at it.

I wouldn't recommend the Guy Broad box for E Types it's a nightmare to fit.

I believe Chris at Winspeed got around that problem and has done quite a few now, but I know it was causing issues to start with. Although all sorts of Jaguars used the Moss box they all presented the gear change differently.

[exitwound]

OldGermanHeaps said:

This is a reflection upon the owner not the car.. Basic and regular maintenance would prevent most problems as it would on any car.

Any critic of the Stag, in fact anyone who likes cars of any type needs to drive one, especially on a warm day, sans roof, on a nice bit of road to understand the appeal. Even if it had been fitted with a 2.5pi six pot motor, it still stands head and shoulders above many others.

No, its not a by-pass dicer or a switchback screamer (..it could be), but it'll put a smile on your face that'll last forever.

[threespires]

OP says :-
"With enough beer and pizza I might even be able to drive this one."
What an odd thing to say.
Do you really want to drive whilst drunk?

[varsas]

threespires said:

OP says :-
"With enough beer and pizza I might even be able to drive this one."
What an odd thing to say.
Do you really want to drive whilst drunk?

Of course not. I mean if I 'bribe' HIM with enough beer and pizza he might let ME drive it; subject to the proper insurance of course.