Why did so few of Chris Evans's cars sell?
Discussion
daemon said:
You might consider him a quite annoying ex Radio 1 DJ, however the classic car world know him as a collector of the best of the best.
Quite. You also get the feeling that he's not exactly going to scrimp on maintenance or on trying to save some money with bodged repairs.
larrylamb11 said:
Incorrect - the reserve can be anywhere the seller likes, the guide price is irrelevant.
I am not sure if it is actually against the law in UK but as a general rule auctioneers will never set the reserve at higher than the bottom estimate. This is to prevent people from needlessly wasting time chasing an item that cannot be bought within the stated price. Of course there is nothing to stop the owner from bidding on his own lot, but if he gets stuck with it he will have to pay the premium.Cheers Rick
MarshPhantom said:
alolympic said:
Too high profile, they will always be an ex Chris Evans car.
Not sure why this should be an issue.they have bought a highly visible (bargain priced?) car which when it comes to re-sale
the whole world and his wife knows what he paid for it.
I've never really got this celebrity thing.
I can understand paying a premium for Ringo Starr's drum kit
but I don't understand why somebody would pay a premium for say his
Facel Vega - would somebody pay a premium for Jean Daninos's drum kit?
Elderly said:
I've never really got this celebrity thing.
I can understand paying a premium for Ringo Starr's drum kit
but I don't understand why somebody would pay a premium for say his
Facel Vega - would somebody pay a premium for Jean Daninos's drum kit?
History has a value in the Classic Car world and the more interesting a cars history, the larger the impact on its value. A beautiful roadster once owned by Grace Kelly would be more appealing than the same car if an oink like me had owned it. It does work in both ways mind such as Jimmy Saville's Rolls Royce which is practically worthless due to it's 'celebrity' connection.I can understand paying a premium for Ringo Starr's drum kit
but I don't understand why somebody would pay a premium for say his
Facel Vega - would somebody pay a premium for Jean Daninos's drum kit?
Elderly said:
MarshPhantom said:
alolympic said:
Too high profile, they will always be an ex Chris Evans car.
Not sure why this should be an issue.they have bought a highly visible (bargain priced?) car which when it comes to re-sale
the whole world and his wife knows what he paid for it.
I've never really got this celebrity thing.
I can understand paying a premium for Ringo Starr's drum kit
but I don't understand why somebody would pay a premium for say his
Facel Vega - would somebody pay a premium for Jean Daninos's drum kit?
This is part of a collection of cars, by a well known collector who happens to be quite famous in his own right.
This particular collector is well known in classic car circles as collecting the best of the best.
Therefore if you're about to drop £2 mil on a car, it may be of interest to you that a particular collector had it as it might give an indication as to its condition and previous provenance.
He is an exceptional classic car collector in his own right. It just so happens that hes a minor celebrity too.
Bebee said:
To a degree, although not quite ex film star status but when Evans is gone, (like dead and that) that's when value will be slightly greater that the car itself but never like ex McQueen or Coburn.
I think it is far more like daemon said; a Chris Evans car is a suggestion of good provenance rather than anything fame-related. P
Let me give you a parallel example:
Take Seymour Stein ( go Google him if you don't know who he is).
Back in 2003 after Warner Bros had closed down his record label,
he decided to sell his enormous collection of paintings and furniture etc. that he'd built up
over 35 years, at a one owner sale in Sotheby's NewYork.
He was known by reputation for collecting the best of the best;
Sotheby's proudly named the sale 'The collecting eye of Seymour Stein'.
Now I know nothing about the quality of the cars in Evan's collection and I know nothing about 250 of the 251 lots in Stein's sale, but I know that one lot of pre-raphaelite painted furniture was created by somebody I knew in the 1970's.
The item had appeared twice before in London in both Christie's (1980) and Sotheby's (1989) both said that it was painted by a particular pupil of Burne-Jones, and yes I told Sotheby's its true history as soon as I saw it for sale in 1989.
I don't know where that item now is, but it remains in the cannon and I'm afraid always will be.
daemon said:
This is part of a collection of cars, by a well known collector who happens to be quite famous in his own right.
This particular collector is well known in classic car circles as collecting the best of the best.
Therefore if you're about to drop £2 mil on a car, it may be of interest to you that a particular collector had it as it might give an indication as to its condition and previous provenance.
But ARE they necessarily the best of the best, who says/knows so?This particular collector is well known in classic car circles as collecting the best of the best.
Therefore if you're about to drop £2 mil on a car, it may be of interest to you that a particular collector had it as it might give an indication as to its condition and previous provenance.
Let me give you a parallel example:
Take Seymour Stein ( go Google him if you don't know who he is).
Back in 2003 after Warner Bros had closed down his record label,
he decided to sell his enormous collection of paintings and furniture etc. that he'd built up
over 35 years, at a one owner sale in Sotheby's NewYork.
He was known by reputation for collecting the best of the best;
Sotheby's proudly named the sale 'The collecting eye of Seymour Stein'.
Now I know nothing about the quality of the cars in Evan's collection and I know nothing about 250 of the 251 lots in Stein's sale, but I know that one lot of pre-raphaelite painted furniture was created by somebody I knew in the 1970's.
The item had appeared twice before in London in both Christie's (1980) and Sotheby's (1989) both said that it was painted by a particular pupil of Burne-Jones, and yes I told Sotheby's its true history as soon as I saw it for sale in 1989.
I don't know where that item now is, but it remains in the cannon and I'm afraid always will be.
Edited by Elderly on Thursday 17th September 16:24
Elderly said:
P
Let me give you a parallel example:
Take Seymour Stein ( go Google him if you don't know who he is).
Back in 2003 after Warner Bros had closed down his record label,
he decided to sell his enormous collection of paintings and furniture etc. that he'd built up
over 35 years, at a one owner sale in Sotheby's NewYork.
He was known by reputation for collecting the best of the best;
Sotheby's proudly named the sale 'The collecting eye of Seymour Stein'.
Now I know nothing about the quality of the cars in Evan's collection and I know nothing about 250 of the 251 lots in Stein's sale, but I know that one lot of pre-raphaelite painted furniture was created by somebody I knew in the 1970's.
The item had appeared twice before in London in both Christie's and Sotheby's, both of who both said that it was painted by a particular pupil of Burne-Jones, and yes I told Sotheby's it's true history back in 1989.
I don't know where that item now is, but it remains in the cannon and I'm afraid always will be.
Well ultimately its up to the buyer to decide on the accuracy of any items provenance and i dont for a minute think that someone dropping a couple of mill on a car is going to do so "just" on the fact that it came from a particular car collection. daemon said:
This is part of a collection of cars, by a well known collector who happens to be quite famous in his own right.
This particular collector is well known in classic car circles as collecting the best of the best.
Therefore if you're about to drop £2 mil on a car, it may be of interest to you that a particular collector had it as it might give an indication as to its condition and previous provenance.
But ARE they necessarily the best of the best, who says/knows so?This particular collector is well known in classic car circles as collecting the best of the best.
Therefore if you're about to drop £2 mil on a car, it may be of interest to you that a particular collector had it as it might give an indication as to its condition and previous provenance.
Let me give you a parallel example:
Take Seymour Stein ( go Google him if you don't know who he is).
Back in 2003 after Warner Bros had closed down his record label,
he decided to sell his enormous collection of paintings and furniture etc. that he'd built up
over 35 years, at a one owner sale in Sotheby's NewYork.
He was known by reputation for collecting the best of the best;
Sotheby's proudly named the sale 'The collecting eye of Seymour Stein'.
Now I know nothing about the quality of the cars in Evan's collection and I know nothing about 250 of the 251 lots in Stein's sale, but I know that one lot of pre-raphaelite painted furniture was created by somebody I knew in the 1970's.
The item had appeared twice before in London in both Christie's and Sotheby's, both of who both said that it was painted by a particular pupil of Burne-Jones, and yes I told Sotheby's it's true history back in 1989.
I don't know where that item now is, but it remains in the cannon and I'm afraid always will be.
Ultimately hes a high profile collector within the classic car arena, and on that basis auctions of his cars will attract prospective buyers to auctions. It may fill a few column inches in the tabloids when he sells some cars and some extra people might turn up to have a look, but thats about it really in terms of his celebrity impact on the cars. Its like thinking a car owned by Chris Moyles should have an extra zero stuck on the end of it, just because he too was once a radio 1 DJ.
daemon said:
Well ultimately its up to the buyer to decide on the accuracy of any items provenance and i dont for a minute think that someone dropping a couple of mill on a car is going to do so "just" on the fact that it came from a particular car collection.
That's just my point, most people have very little judgement and who is to say that Evans knew exactly what he was buying or being sold? And I'm afraid that the Emporer's new clothes syndrome ensures that many people will spend huge amounts of money on the perceived wisdom of others.
//j17 said:
Bebee said:
To a degree, although not quite ex film star status but when Evans is gone, (like dead and that) that's when value will be slightly greater that the car itself but never like ex McQueen or Coburn.
I didn't realise the new Labor leader even HAD a car...
Elderly said:
daemon said:
Well ultimately its up to the buyer to decide on the accuracy of any items provenance and i dont for a minute think that someone dropping a couple of mill on a car is going to do so "just" on the fact that it came from a particular car collection.
That's just my point, most people have very little judgement and who is to say that Evans knew exactly what he was buying or being sold? And I'm afraid that the Emporer's new clothes syndrome ensures that many people will spend huge amounts of money on the perceived wisdom of others.
The people who are spending the sort of money to buy those cars are razor sharp collectors. They're not going to just "assume". They're going to want to see evidence and a lot of it.
There was an article where he said he'd bought some rare Ferrari for £11 million, and it turned out it didnt have the original engine. He resold it declaring this at auction and it raised £7 million. He basically took a four million bath on the thing rather than not declare it.
Remember the sale of Elton John's collection? They fetched a fortune due to the hype but later many were sold on by disillusioned "collectors" and fetched a much lower price. However, I was surprised to see that the Lynx XKSS fetched nearly what he had paid for it whereas I expected a substantial loss.
daemon said:
I dont agree, and you're projecting how you think other people would think.
The people who are spending the sort of money to buy those cars are razor sharp collectors. They're not going to just "assume". They're going to want to see evidence and a lot of it.
Let's agree to disagree The people who are spending the sort of money to buy those cars are razor sharp collectors. They're not going to just "assume". They're going to want to see evidence and a lot of it.
but I've friends who were directors of Sotheby's and Christie's and my insight into how most of those buyers think, comes from their years of experience in the world's then top two auction houses.
Elderly said:
Even before it became law no auctioneer liked to have a high 'bought in' figure after a sale by (immorally) allowing a vendor to tempt bidders in with a very low pre-sale estimate whilst having a reserve set at a level above those bidders' expectations and their ability to purchase.
I don't know whether or not the guide prices were excessively high in Evan's case, but in my experience, nothing puts off a bidder more than what he/she perceives as an item with an unrealistically high estimate and implied high reserve.
Edited by Elderly on Thursday 17th September 09:08
My experience of Collection Sales is that generally they tend to gain a fair bit of publicity that usually results in better than expected auction results. This obvioulsy did not occur in this case, but it would I am sure have been the original intention. The public often get suckered into these sales, even for big ticket 7 figure items, which is why one often sees subsequent sales of well known items not reaching their previous sale amount. Anyway CE can afford it and good luck to him.
Rick
segart said:
Sorry I missed that post Elderly.
My experience of Collection Sales is that generally they tend to gain a fair bit of publicity that usually results in better than expected auction results. This obvioulsy did not occur in this case, but it would I am sure have been the original intention. The public often get suckered into these sales, even for big ticket 7 figure items, which is why one often sees subsequent sales of well known items not reaching their previous sale amount. Anyway CE can afford it and good luck to him.
Rick
He tried! The cars that were being sold featured in his 'dirty dozen' so were all on radio 2, and went up and down the hill all weekend at carfest with the announcer constantly saying "don't forget these cars are up for auction...."My experience of Collection Sales is that generally they tend to gain a fair bit of publicity that usually results in better than expected auction results. This obvioulsy did not occur in this case, but it would I am sure have been the original intention. The public often get suckered into these sales, even for big ticket 7 figure items, which is why one often sees subsequent sales of well known items not reaching their previous sale amount. Anyway CE can afford it and good luck to him.
Rick
daemon said:
The people who are spending the sort of money to buy those cars are razor sharp collectors. They're not going to just "assume". They're going to want to see evidence and a lot of it.
There was an article where he said he'd bought some rare Ferrari for £11 million, and it turned out it didnt have the original engine. He resold it declaring this at auction and it raised £7 million. He basically took a four million bath on the thing rather than not declare it.
Errr Daemon have you read what you wrote there? There was an article where he said he'd bought some rare Ferrari for £11 million, and it turned out it didnt have the original engine. He resold it declaring this at auction and it raised £7 million. He basically took a four million bath on the thing rather than not declare it.
It rather looks like you're contradicting yourself.
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