DAIMLER DOUBLE SIX VANDEN PLAS
Discussion
JPW69 said:
Thanks P5B, that confirms my research.
However, I'm after the split between Sovereigns and VDP's built
From my recollections of 30 odd years ago, there were many more Sovereigns on the road, but it was very rare to see one with Vanden Plas on its rump - but I've not got anything more scientific than that!
By the way, I too find it to be a magically well riding and supple car, although she finds it a little undignified to be hustled through corners!
Sadly the Thorley book doesn't give a split between the Sovs and VDPs. I was hoping it would tell me the precise split between manual and auto SWB S2 4.2s but alas not. 12,147 were built in total but I've been told that roughly 10% of these were manual/overdrive cars like mine. I'm wondering if it's one of, if not the earliest SWB S2 currently on the road, the first one was built in September '73 and mine was built in October, so it's a possiblility I suppose. However, I'm after the split between Sovereigns and VDP's built
From my recollections of 30 odd years ago, there were many more Sovereigns on the road, but it was very rare to see one with Vanden Plas on its rump - but I've not got anything more scientific than that!
By the way, I too find it to be a magically well riding and supple car, although she finds it a little undignified to be hustled through corners!
My S2 rides very well, even better since I had new shocks and bushes fitted all round a few months ago. When I bought it the o/side front corner sat too high as a previous owner or mechanic had fitted some shims under the spring for some strange reason. It now sits right, I can't believe how low the front looks compared to most modern cars. When I stand next to it, it looks like a big old barge but parked next to mate's BMW Cooper at work it looks very slim and dainty, particularly from the rear. When we had it up on the ramps it was apparent that one of the exhaust pipes was rubbing against the driveshaft as the pipe hanger had rotted away. It now sports a shiny new s/steel system!
jith said:
A word of warning to those of you thinking about a later car than a Series 1. I have just finished "Saving Jaguar" by John Egan. It's a terrific read, and for people like myself who actually worked on these cars in that era and before, it brings back so many memories of the events of the day; many of these distinctly unpleasant.
As the '70s wore on it became clear that BL was ruining virtually every manufacturer it touched, and especially Jaguar; John makes no bones about this in his book. The last of the Series 2 cars in '79 were the worst cars Jaguar ever produced. I have numerous accounts of utterly dismal build quality and horrendous major engine failures on cars less than a year old. John took over in 1980 and inherited this mess. All credit to him for saving the brand with an inheritance like that.
What I'm saying is, if you want an old XJ stick to the Series 1. Whilst not perfect, it was definitely the best of all the XJs, and has a certain magic about it, a real presence that the later cars just don't have. And as I'm sure we all agree, it has the best looking dash ever!
J
Sounds like a book I ought to read J, although I think I dropped lucky with my S2, the only build quality issue being the interior where things don't quite line up as they should, the odd bit of vinyl on the door cards and round the interior door handles looks slightly unfinished and the silver trim round the dash area looks a bit on the cheap side and has the air of a 'Friday afternoon job' about it. I certainly prefer the S1 interior but with my car being relatively low mileage and only having had five previous owners in forty two years it's held up very well. The car itself is very solid indeed, the doors all shut with a well engineered quality feel and the panel gaps are more consistent than a lot of the other BL cars I've owned. Having said that, I took it to the Jag spares day at Stoneleigh earlier this year and parked next to a very nice looking pale blue S1 2.8, I could happpily have swapped cars...! As the '70s wore on it became clear that BL was ruining virtually every manufacturer it touched, and especially Jaguar; John makes no bones about this in his book. The last of the Series 2 cars in '79 were the worst cars Jaguar ever produced. I have numerous accounts of utterly dismal build quality and horrendous major engine failures on cars less than a year old. John took over in 1980 and inherited this mess. All credit to him for saving the brand with an inheritance like that.
What I'm saying is, if you want an old XJ stick to the Series 1. Whilst not perfect, it was definitely the best of all the XJs, and has a certain magic about it, a real presence that the later cars just don't have. And as I'm sure we all agree, it has the best looking dash ever!
J
Edited by P5BNij on Wednesday 30th September 15:27
jith - I totally agree with your sentiments re build quality in the late 70's.
However, in common with P5B, my car had a fairly trouble free early life.I know this for a fact, because it has been in the family since new (being sold from my uncle to my father at 5 years old, and father to me at about 10. I've had it ever since. The car has only done 33,000 miles, so I can't talk about reliability with the authority of someone doing 10 times that mileage, but here goes:
I was wrong before with my dates: my car was made in July 78, but not dispatched until November that year (the 4.2 VDP clearly wasn't in demand, was it? Possibly due to the quality issues with refers to?). Delivered Jan 79, it gave no major troubles at all for its first 5 years / 15,000 miles.
However, on purchase, my father immediately noticed the brake master cylinder had dropped most of its fluid - un-spotted by the uncle, who rarely went fast enough to need the brakes!
The other main sign of poor quality was the bonnet's original paint hazing with the heat, but I do agree with P5B about interior fit and trim.
The only 'failure to proceed' happened to me in about 1990, when the ballast resistor failed about a mile from home. The car was towed back up the hill by the ever-willing Suzuki SJ413 that I had then (oh - the indignity...!)
Apart from that, the main reliability issues have been caused by my stupidity - and lack of use!
I wonder whether all the 'duff' cars jith refers to were given up on years ago, and scrapped, so those that are left are mainly the 'better built' ones? It was certainly the luck of the draw whether you had a good one or not: I recall talking to a BL main dealer's chief mechanic around this time, who wanted to buy a new Mini. He effectively had pick of the batch, of course, so listened to all the engines (and they all sounded different...), then selected the best one. He needed a new engine under guarantee...
However, in common with P5B, my car had a fairly trouble free early life.I know this for a fact, because it has been in the family since new (being sold from my uncle to my father at 5 years old, and father to me at about 10. I've had it ever since. The car has only done 33,000 miles, so I can't talk about reliability with the authority of someone doing 10 times that mileage, but here goes:
I was wrong before with my dates: my car was made in July 78, but not dispatched until November that year (the 4.2 VDP clearly wasn't in demand, was it? Possibly due to the quality issues with refers to?). Delivered Jan 79, it gave no major troubles at all for its first 5 years / 15,000 miles.
However, on purchase, my father immediately noticed the brake master cylinder had dropped most of its fluid - un-spotted by the uncle, who rarely went fast enough to need the brakes!
The other main sign of poor quality was the bonnet's original paint hazing with the heat, but I do agree with P5B about interior fit and trim.
The only 'failure to proceed' happened to me in about 1990, when the ballast resistor failed about a mile from home. The car was towed back up the hill by the ever-willing Suzuki SJ413 that I had then (oh - the indignity...!)
Apart from that, the main reliability issues have been caused by my stupidity - and lack of use!
I wonder whether all the 'duff' cars jith refers to were given up on years ago, and scrapped, so those that are left are mainly the 'better built' ones? It was certainly the luck of the draw whether you had a good one or not: I recall talking to a BL main dealer's chief mechanic around this time, who wanted to buy a new Mini. He effectively had pick of the batch, of course, so listened to all the engines (and they all sounded different...), then selected the best one. He needed a new engine under guarantee...
Sorry my photos didn't load . Here is mine
And by the way,mi have never got more than 11mpg and it runs correctly, so I am afraid I do t quite agree with the earlier posters 18/19 mpg. Never mind new plugs, tyres and fuels...he must have been free wheeling down the hills!
And by the way,mi have never got more than 11mpg and it runs correctly, so I am afraid I do t quite agree with the earlier posters 18/19 mpg. Never mind new plugs, tyres and fuels...he must have been free wheeling down the hills!
Edited by vanquish spirit on Thursday 1st October 22:17
williamp said:
vanquish spirit said:
Sorry my photos didn't load . Here is mine
Gosh that's beautiful. The old MG slogan Lyons used of Grace, Space, and Pace is perfectEdited by vanquish spirit on Thursday 1st October 22:17
Only 2,474 SWB S1 XJ12s built so that is a lucky survivor...!
P5BNij said:
So much car for so little money
jith said:
You are absolutely spot on about the fuel consumption mph. The problem of course is running a V12 engine of this size on Stromberg carbs. But this car will only get occasional use in fair weather, so it's not really a substantial problem.
The V12 engine is an absolute stonker though, and the one to go for if you want a Series 1. I personally prefer the Jag because most of them were short wheelbase and the handling was tremendous, particularly in that era.
Great story: the buyer phoned me late Friday from Fort William to say that the car was going well but he kept getting flashed by other cars and realised that the headlights were "jammed on main beam". He couldn't get them to go off. I told him to look at the floor to the left of the brake pedal and see if he could spot another small pedal on the floor and push it. I actually heard the click over the phone as he did so and then he burst into laughter as he realised this was the dipswitch!
They don't make them like that any more!
J
Lovely stuff, and what a Majestic motor car.The V12 engine is an absolute stonker though, and the one to go for if you want a Series 1. I personally prefer the Jag because most of them were short wheelbase and the handling was tremendous, particularly in that era.
Great story: the buyer phoned me late Friday from Fort William to say that the car was going well but he kept getting flashed by other cars and realised that the headlights were "jammed on main beam". He couldn't get them to go off. I told him to look at the floor to the left of the brake pedal and see if he could spot another small pedal on the floor and push it. I actually heard the click over the phone as he did so and then he burst into laughter as he realised this was the dipswitch!
They don't make them like that any more!
J
mph said:
I'm thinking that an S1 XJ may be a worthwhile purchase as they're great cars and decent ones are thin on the ground now.
Not sure if I can live with the V12 fuel consumption though.
Obviously I now think I can - as I've bought one !Not sure if I can live with the V12 fuel consumption though.
It's a Daimler Double Six Vanden Plas. One owner, 29k miles , colour is caramel with beige leather.
mph said:
mph said:
I'm thinking that an S1 XJ may be a worthwhile purchase as they're great cars and decent ones are thin on the ground now.
Not sure if I can live with the V12 fuel consumption though.
Obviously I now think I can - as I've bought one !Not sure if I can live with the V12 fuel consumption though.
It's a Daimler Double Six Vanden Plas. One owner, 29k miles , colour is caramel with beige leather.
J
mph said:
Obviously I now think I can - as I've bought one !
It's a Daimler Double Six Vanden Plas. One owner, 29k miles , colour is caramel with beige leather.
That's Jag appeal. I went to the NEC Motor Show in 1982 on press day (iirc John Egan was there) and there were all the latest XJ's on the stand including a metallic racing green 3.4. The queue to get onto the Jaguar stand was a mile long, took half an hour to get in and sit in some cars. The Merc and BMW stands were relatively empty.It's a Daimler Double Six Vanden Plas. One owner, 29k miles , colour is caramel with beige leather.
The cars looked simply incredible, but 10 years later they'd all be shagged out scrappers. Oddly enough, I bought a Y plate BMW 728i in 1998 that was a 1982 NEC show car.
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