Another mystery car

Author
Discussion

Dr G

15,159 posts

241 months

Wednesday 13th July 2016
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Tornado cars of Rickmansworth seem to have produced some customs with similar styling cues:



Bubble windscreen, forward swept doors - some sort of panel gap atop the windscreen?

http://www.fordspecials.co.uk/tornado.html

Some of their other models have elements that make you think 'maybe' also.

galro

774 posts

168 months

Wednesday 13th July 2016
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Rangeroverover said:
Didn't Ogle or someone similar do a one off body on a daimler dart chassis, those hubcaps look v similar to the ones on my old dart. It looked a bit like a fairthorpe electron
Ace Mercury hubcaps (which I believe is what they were called) were offered on MGs of the era and I believe they were also sold as aftermarket accessories at the time. The myster cars appears to have "centerlocks" that have much larger "teeths" than what the hubcaps come fitted with on Daimler and MGs which in my mind suggest that the builder have not gotten the hubcaps for either of those cars. I don't think it is likely that the car was built on Dart chassis either given the very low bonnet-line, short wheel-base and doors that hug the rear wheel-arches.




galro

774 posts

168 months

Wednesday 13th July 2016
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Period ad for the hubcap:


threespires

Original Poster:

4,289 posts

210 months

Wednesday 13th July 2016
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Good to see that Ace ad.

As you've highlighted the front wheel, something that has confused me from the start is how far the tyre sits inside the wheelwell. The rear is the same, it would seem that the rear axle is almost inside the car.

galro

774 posts

168 months

Wednesday 13th July 2016
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threespires said:
Good to see that Ace ad.

As you've highlighted the front wheel, something that has confused me from the start is how far the tyre sits inside the wheelwell. The rear is the same, it would seem that the rear axle is almost inside the car.
Keep in mind that we are looking at from above which will give the impression that the wheel sits farther in that it actually does. While that is said I do not think the wheel is flush with the bodywork but it was quite common at the time that it was not.

davidewanprice

1 posts

146 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
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Hi there. A bit late seeing this but if anyone is interested I know a bit about the Arnott as my father bought it from Daphne Arnott. I can confirm that there was only 1 GT car, this was the 1957 Le Mans car. I believe there were more than one of the open to car, one of which went to Me Mans in 1955. I believe at least one of the open cars is around in the UK. Tjeres plenty of photos of this car but there not much on the 1957 car.. I can confirm there was no development of the 1957 car after Le Mans other than to return the engine to Climax. When my dad bought it the engine was still boxed waiting to be re-installed. It also had a ding in the bonnet from the trailer ride home.. I can confirm the 1957 car is now in the USA. I've been lucky enough to speak to the very nice man who owns it now, I think he's had it for some years before restoring it. It's now looking pretty much as it did in 1957. If you want to ask anything else I'll do my best to help..

threespires

Original Poster:

4,289 posts

210 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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davidewanprice said:
Hi there. A bit late seeing this but if anyone is interested I know a bit about the Arnott as my father bought it from Daphne Arnott. I can confirm that there was only 1 GT car, this was the 1957 Le Mans car. I believe there were more than one of the open to car, one of which went to Me Mans in 1955. I believe at least one of the open cars is around in the UK. Tjeres plenty of photos of this car but there not much on the 1957 car.. I can confirm there was no development of the 1957 car after Le Mans other than to return the engine to Climax. When my dad bought it the engine was still boxed waiting to be re-installed. It also had a ding in the bonnet from the trailer ride home.. I can confirm the 1957 car is now in the USA. I've been lucky enough to speak to the very nice man who owns it now, I think he's had it for some years before restoring it. It's now looking pretty much as it did in 1957. If you want to ask anything else I'll do my best to help..
Thanks for info ---

jamesatcandsc

232 posts

155 months

Monday 22nd August 2016
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Missed a few pages so sorry if this ground has been covered already before the last couple of posts.
Arnott at The Quail on Friday.
Must admit that when I first saw it, I thought "That's it! That's it!", but it isn't.


threespires

Original Poster:

4,289 posts

210 months

Monday 22nd August 2016
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My heart jumped when I saw it too!

Edited by threespires on Monday 22 August 17:01

uk66fastback

16,457 posts

270 months

Monday 22nd August 2016
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Apart from the screen I can't see what that green car has in common!? I think we might even have had a pic of it on here already - it kinda looks familiar. The front is nowhere near close and same for the rear!

Chances are maybe that over the years the front has been changed anyway - if this was on a common chassis then you could get different bolt on fronts in GRP?

piper

295 posts

267 months

Monday 22nd August 2016
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Its a long time ago, but from memory there was nothing to suggest it was rear engined. Like I said I never forgot the car even after all these years, but I have never been able to recognise it and this thread especially how long its been running has made it increasingly frustrating. I have found my list I made the last time I saw it, 22nd April 1976, I was on the coach on the way to Victoria, I have listed it as unknown, the more unusual cars I saw that day included a Clan Crusader, Gilbern Genie, Matra Simca Bagheera, Piper GTT, a brown Bugatti Type 35, Panther J72, in total I saw 48 Porsche's, 7 Ferrari's, 5 Lamborghini's (4 Uracco's and 1 Espada), 2 De Tomaso's ( a Deauville and a Pantera), 7 1970's Lotus Elites, 9 Jaguar XJS's and 15 Aston Martin's. Great days for a car mad teenager, London then was the only place I would see such cars.

5-potnoodle said:
piper said:
.... I am 99% sure I saw this car on a number of occasions parked there. I remember this little light blue coupe which I could not identify and the distinctive GT40 style door tops that went into the roofline, .....
I don't suppose you clocked whether it was front or rear-engined did you?

uk66fastback

16,457 posts

270 months

Monday 22nd August 2016
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Did you note down where you saw it?

piper

295 posts

267 months

Monday 22nd August 2016
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uk66fastback said:
Did you note down where you saw it?
Below from my earlier comments:
On the way to Victoria the coach used to go down a very wide London road, probably approx 4-5 miles (could of been less, very much in London) from Victoria; right in the centre of this wide road were parked cars in two rows of two deep, I am 99% sure I saw this car on a number of occasions parked there. I remember this little light blue coupe which I could not identify and the distinctive GT40 style door tops that went into the roofline, I remember the frustration of not knowing what it was and it being too far to walk to from Victoria, especially as I did not know the area. Even as a teenager I knew all the specialist cars like the Ashley Sportiva etc. That car has remained in my memory all this years and seeing that picture bought it all back. I hope someone identifies it soon.

galro

774 posts

168 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
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uk66fastback said:
Apart from the screen I can't see what that green car has in common!? I think we might even have had a pic of it on here already - it kinda looks familiar. The front is nowhere near close and same for the rear!
I've posted it a few times. What they have in common: It appears to be only car in the world with a roof of the same design, they both hail from the London area, they are from the same era, and they both appears to be built on a chassis with the engine pushed back towards the fire wall (low front) and the driver pushed back towards the rear wheels.


Edited by galro on Wednesday 24th August 18:10

Bumblyari

5 posts

91 months

Tuesday 30th August 2016
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Like many people here, over the last few months I have spent many a happy hour scouring the internet for anything that might provide clues to this car’s history but to no avail. So going by the total number of people searching on several forums, I think it must be safe to assume by now that this is probably the only picture of this car that exists on the web. But I can’t believe that whoever produced such a professional looking, and to my eye quite pretty looking car, wouldn’t have taken some photographs of it. So if they still exist where are they ? Probably in an old suitcase in somebody's attic.

Assuming the car was photographed around about 1960-62, as seems to be the consensus, whoever designed and built it will probably be at least in their late 80s by now. So even if they are still around they may not be paying too much attention to forums such as this. But what of the car itself ? If it was a kit car then surely other examples would exist (unless this was the only prototype) and its existence would be fairly well known about. Since it isn’t, I think it must have been a one-off special and it would be nice to think that it is still sitting, long forgotten, in a dusty barn somewhere.

I know the Lotus XI has been mentioned before but I’m not sure if this particular one has:

http://www.lotuseleven.org/DarkAges4/gullwing%20ex...

Despite some similar features it’s obviously not the same car but there is an intriguing sentence in the second paragraph which reads: “Two other sister cars were mentioned, but there have never been any signs of these”. Maybe, just maybe ...

Anyone know any ex-de Havilland apprentices ?

DaveGoddard

1,192 posts

144 months

Wednesday 31st August 2016
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Has Peerless been mentioned? According to someone on Retro Rides they were based at Greenford which is not far from where the picture was taken, and their products do seem to share some styling cues...could this be one of their prototypes on test?

My theory however is that it is indeed a one-off coachbuild or homebuilt special - if it's the latter though, it is done to a high standard.

Allan L

779 posts

104 months

Wednesday 31st August 2016
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Bumblyari said:
Anyone know any ex-de Havilland apprentices ?
Yes, being one such myself!
I know nothing of the tale, but I do know a former colleague who had a Lotus Elite so could be expected to have spotted other Lotus goings on. I'll ask when I get the chance.

uk66fastback

16,457 posts

270 months

Wednesday 31st August 2016
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The mystery car doesn't have the look/general vibe of steel though, much more fibreglass ...

galro

774 posts

168 months

Wednesday 31st August 2016
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Bumblyari said:
I know the Lotus XI has been mentioned before but I’m not sure if this particular one has:

http://www.lotuseleven.org/DarkAges4/gullwing%20ex...

Despite some similar features it’s obviously not the same car but there is an intriguing sentence in the second paragraph which reads: “Two other sister cars were mentioned, but there have never been any signs of these”. Maybe, just maybe ...

Anyone know any ex-de Havilland apprentices ?
This car shares the body with the standard XI from the waist down and it is only the roof and parts of the rear that are unique to that car. The mystery car have a very different body from the standard XI and would have required a complete re-body if it was based on a XI. The design of the gullwings themselves are also different as they lack the distinctive "bulge" of the mystery cars roof and the doors take up much smaller parts of the roof, and the shutlines appears to be round-ed off in the corners. Even if the people behind the XI gullwing coupé built the body on the mystery car, then I'm not sure you could have called them sister cars given how different they are.

What they do share are the general proportions but this is something it share with many coupés based on small racecars of the period.




Dr G

15,159 posts

241 months

Thursday 3rd November 2016
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Could this 1962 Ford concept car have been some inspiration to our mystery builder?



http://jalopnik.com/ford-built-a-gullwing-sports-c...