Another mystery car

[galro]

Someone one another forum I'm on mentioned that this picture was found in the 1967 book titled Buses Trolleys & Trams by Chas S. Dunbar, where it is captioned as "Oxford St. London, 1962.".

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=81...

[Carsie]

AndrewCrown said:

21924... and many others I'm sure...
This mystery can absorb huge amounts of time... I'm trying to wean myself off it, as hours can pass by in this forensic search... I've started using different language searches.. German, Italian, French... so many tantalisingly close stuff on here... http://www.icbdb.altervista.org/index.php
Last night I was revisiting Harry Webster (Standard-Triumph) and his relationship with Michelotti...
The headlights on the Zebu project got me going down another line of enquiry.. see below... and there are shades of this in the Triumph TR-S and the Triumph TR3 Speciale (Vignale)1957...
Then I found another Harry... Harry Ferguson... and there was something similar about the wheel arches on his R5 prototype..

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Edited by AndrewCrown on Sunday 6th December 13:04

Edited by AndrewCrown on Sunday 6th December 13:04

I love this thread - thank you for posting it’s very much like the Birmingham Special last year. What I like apart from the intellectual challenge is that one's research c/o Google, Yahoo et al takes you down avenues of dreams, aspirations and successes some of which your grey matter knew about others a total surprise and delight like the Daimler SP251.

I can’t believe that I’ve missed this car - it’s stunning! It’s absolutely beautiful! I can’t believe that with all my grey hair that I’ve missed this car. I'm a Jag man through and through, you know this if you’ve followed me over the years but this 251..my giddy aunt - I love this car- give me a lottery win and I'll be hammering at the owners door lol!; I totally can/not understand why Sir William canned this prototype.


Well despite Hooli's piddle take of ol' Carsie I think that my initial grey stirring that the Mystery Car was Sabra I don’t think that I was too far the mark.




Back to the posting

Following everyone else’s investigation,I thought that I should post my own.

I thought it best to disseminate the “car” into its constituents parts.

The front end – well the Sabra does provide guidance as to the profile both with the headlamp and the bumper fixings I don’t think it’s too far of the mark but provides a clue as to the age of the design rather than origin.

The bonnet extends down to the sill unlike the Sambra

The doors – nothing particular exceptional except for the “Dog Leg” rear wing.

I would have thought that the reason for the dog leg would be the short wheel base and the requirement to accommodate a reasonable door opening aperture, In researching (read Yahoo/Google et al) I too have been unable to find anything like it.

The Rear Wing – Well yes I take on board the Sunbeam Alpine/ SP250 but actually maybe others were inspired.

What else? – The hubcaps – I think these were a period accessory – note the SP250 below so don’t in my opinion denote bespoke manufacturing.




So that leaves the gullwing doors…

In amongst the t’internet perusing I’m somewhat embarrassed that I’ve lost a rather important posting……….I'm sure it was on the 750 Specials website.

It went something along the line that that a Motor Engineer, Designer was working for Marcos or Costin and left to pursue his own destiny. Link that in with another bit of info that five or seven body shells were left at Hitchin/Luton/Lutterworth rail station because of non-payment and you can see where I am beginning to surmise that perhaps aforesaid engineer picked his gullwing body shell, naked except for a bonnet clam and decided to build his own dream.

Was it not Marcos who had the gullwing doors on the ungainly GT?



Of course as has already been suggested it could be none of the above but rather French…lol! …

Conclusion - Don't think its a Sambra but a 750 Ford Special with influence from Gem Marsh - Still no cigar...

[galro]

Marcos also had this much prettier car with gullwings:





http://www.rory.uk.com/Luton%20Gullwing.html

[Stigproducts]

FWIW I think there are too many similarities with that orange gull wing on the prewar car link for it to be completely unrelated.
An evolution beyond that.
The fins, the rear window, the gull wing doors, the bonnet. Loose those external hinges, change the door profile and its so so close it can't be a coincidence? No one knows what that orange thing is either.

[threespires]

Could this be the answer ?

It looks like it could be called a Dolphin which was a Ford 103E kit car which never went into production. The company which was going to make it was based in London.

''I doubt if the Dolphin was ever built. Certainly no picture ever appeared other than this line drawing. It was advertised for a few months at the start of 1961 in Motor Clubman and Special builder magazine. The shells were to be made for Dolphin by Peasmarsh Reinforced Plastics of Guildford, Surrey. They would be available with either high fin or swept down rear and in two or four seat versions.
The 7`6" Mk1 and Mk2 would be supplied ex works for an estimated £99 and £106. The shells would be available in six colours, fully trimmed with all edges fully returned and weather sealed. Double skinned doors with pockets would be hinged and locked and the one piece forward hinged bonnet would be held in place by chrome plated spring clips. The boot was also to be hinged and locked and the headlamps recessed into the wings and covered by perspex blisters. A front bulkhead and dash board were to be provided as were one or two head rest fairings to the customers choice plus a wrap-round perspex windscreen. Hardtops were to be made available as was a GT version for early 1962 complete with gull wing doors.''

[restoman]

threespires said:

Could this be the answer ?

It looks like it could be called a Dolphin which was a Ford 103E kit car which never went into production. The company which was going to make it was based in London.

''I doubt if the Dolphin was ever built. Certainly no picture ever appeared other than this line drawing. It was advertised for a few months at the start of 1961 in Motor Clubman and Special builder magazine. The shells were to be made for Dolphin by Peasmarsh Reinforced Plastics of Guildford, Surrey. They would be available with either high fin or swept down rear and in two or four seat versions.
The 7`6" Mk1 and Mk2 would be supplied ex works for an estimated £99 and £106. The shells would be available in six colours, fully trimmed with all edges fully returned and weather sealed. Double skinned doors with pockets would be hinged and locked and the one piece forward hinged bonnet would be held in place by chrome plated spring clips. The boot was also to be hinged and locked and the headlamps recessed into the wings and covered by perspex blisters. A front bulkhead and dash board were to be provided as were one or two head rest fairings to the customers choice plus a wrap-round perspex windscreen. Hardtops were to be made available as was a GT version for early 1962 complete with gull wing doors.''

Looks nothing like it imho - as do none of the other specials listed on that site . . . . .

Edited by restoman on Tuesday 8th December 22:32

Edited by restoman on Tuesday 8th December 22:34

[Roy C]

threespires said:

Could this be the answer ?

It looks like it could be called a Dolphin which was a Ford 103E kit car which never went into production. The company which was going to make it was based in London.

''I doubt if the Dolphin was ever built. Certainly no picture ever appeared other than this line drawing. It was advertised for a few months at the start of 1961 in Motor Clubman and Special builder magazine. The shells were to be made for Dolphin by Peasmarsh Reinforced Plastics of Guildford, Surrey. They would be available with either high fin or swept down rear and in two or four seat versions.
The 7`6" Mk1 and Mk2 would be supplied ex works for an estimated £99 and £106. The shells would be available in six colours, fully trimmed with all edges fully returned and weather sealed. Double skinned doors with pockets would be hinged and locked and the one piece forward hinged bonnet would be held in place by chrome plated spring clips. The boot was also to be hinged and locked and the headlamps recessed into the wings and covered by perspex blisters. A front bulkhead and dash board were to be provided as were one or two head rest fairings to the customers choice plus a wrap-round perspex windscreen. Hardtops were to be made available as was a GT version for early 1962 complete with gull wing doors.''

"I doubt if the Dolphin was ever built." & "None are known to exist."
I doubt that a GT version (with difficult to engineer gull wing doors) would be built if the roadster barely (if ever) made it from the drawing to reality.

It seems that Peasmarsh Reinforced Plastics Ltd was created in 1958 by Coburn Engineers Ltd to make "PEMA" plastic up-and-over garage doors. The "PEMA" brand name was then also used for their glassfibre hardtops and bonnets for the AH Sprite and motorcycle fairings.

[sim16v]

Here are a couple of American websites that might turn up something if it turns out to be non UK built.

http://www.forgottenfiberglass.com/welcome/fibergl...

http://www.undiscovered-classics.com/

[Stigproducts]

I emailed forgottenfibreglass and they had already put it on their facebook page a few weeks ago. Nothing :-(

[galro]

I think their whole site have been search through a couple of times too in another tread that are running on it.

[everyeggabird]

The styling of the sloping back end is unusual how it goes out past the rear wings, if you stare at it enough it almost looks like two cars made into one.

As many people know they were well into making look-a-likes in those days. Does the front end remind you of anything exotic, Ferrari/Aston etc.

[nicanary]

It has just occurred to me that this could be a film prop - something built to look like an exotic GT of the day.

[Gompo]

Like many I'll leave the thread, then think of something it could either be based on or adapted from or be a prototype of, but then return for it not to look how I remember. The last two being the Lotus Elite and the early Saab Sonnet. It seems so small!

nicanary said:

It has just occurred to me that this could be a film prop - something built to look like an exotic GT of the day.

I think somebody had mentioned going through the IMCB looking for potential cars, although whether they searched the 'unknown' section I don't know?

[wibble cb]

sim16v said:

Here are a couple of American websites that might turn up something if it turns out to be non UK built.

http://www.forgottenfiberglass.com/welcome/fibergl...

http://www.undiscovered-classics.com/

been through a lot of the forgottenfibreglass site....nada matched

[MatthewBarnett]

I am the owner of another mystery gull wing car. Help required to identify what it is - nobody has been able to positively identify it since I bought the space frame rolling chassis in 1986. The picture of it with its body were taken in the 1970s in Sheffield.
It has unusual choice of running gear - three stud Hillman Minx wheels - back axle 1948 10 hundred weight rootes group van, 10 inch brake drums (bigger than standard minx car 8") lockheed bisector ex pander rear brakes, twin leading shoe brake cylinders on the fronts (same cylinders as XK120), Mowog rack and pinion steering with cast mounting points - not u bolt as Morris minor.
Independent front suspension custom wish bones using Rootes group stub axles, rear axle well tied down A frame on top, two lower trailing arms - engine fitted not known. Complex well made space frame (little bit like a Buckler but not)

I modified chassis slightly at rear to accept Falcon Mk2 body shell.

Chassis no GD628/1 registration 499EXE

more details on
www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/spaceframe.htm
Please help me solve who made it.

[threespires]

MatthewBarnett said:

I am the owner of another mystery gull wing car. Help required to identify what it is - nobody has been able to positively identify it since I bought the space frame rolling chassis in 1986. The picture of it with its body were taken in the 1970s in Sheffield.
It has unusual choice of running gear - three stud Hillman Minx wheels - back axle 1948 10 hundred weight rootes group van, 10 inch brake drums (bigger than standard minx car 8") lockheed bisector ex pander rear brakes, twin leading shoe brake cylinders on the fronts (same cylinders as XK120), Mowog rack and pinion steering with cast mounting points - not u bolt as Morris minor.
Independent front suspension custom wish bones using Rootes group stub axles, rear axle well tied down A frame on top, two lower trailing arms - engine fitted not known. Complex well made space frame (little bit like a Buckler but not)

I modified chassis slightly at rear to accept Falcon Mk2 body shell.

Chassis no GD628/1 registration 499EXE

more details on
www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/spaceframe.htm
Please help me solve who made it.

Welcome to the discussion, your car was mentioned a few pages back. There are many similarities.
Is your car still in the condition shown?

[uk66fastback]

If you click on the link three spires, you'll see the car has no body and had no body when Matthew rescued it. The car was photographed with that body in the 70s, and by the 80s the body was lost.

Strange looking thing!

[Allan L]

MatthewBarnett said:

Chassis no GD628/1 registration 499EXE

more details on
www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/spaceframe.htm
Please help me solve who made it.

Not for the first time there is an obvious mistake in the piece you link to when it comes to identifying where the XE registration comes from. Until the reallocation in the 1970s most Xs were London and XE certainly was.
OCC has spurious lists of many of the Xs, including XEs, which ignore the very history it is supposed to be helping with.
Mind you the table someone has compiled and posted on Wikipedia also lists "Luton" for all the Bedfordshire original allocation and reallocation, so it's an easy trap for the young to fall into.

[Qcarchoo]

Those '70's' photos were taken in the eighties. The bag of sand in the engine bay picture is from Selco builders' merchants which started using the name in 1982.

[MatthewBarnett]

[quote=threespires]


Welcome to the discussion, your car was mentioned a few pages back. There are many similarities.
Is your car still in the condition shown?


How do - when I got my car the rolling chassis space frame it was missing the body shell - I re bodied some year latter with a Falcon MK2 shell I acquired out of someones garden. I modified the rear of the space frame which could be put back to lower to accept the body. I made my own hard top, doors etc from scratch in fiber glass pictured how car is today . Tempted now to have a go at making something like the original body shell from the pictures now theirs a challenge. It really bugs me I have not been able to find out what the car is