Another mystery car
Discussion
galro said:
skwdenyer said:
Designs - and designers - have hallmarks.
When posted on Insta, that image was titled "manufacturer Lady Daphne Arnott getting the Arnott 1100cc alloy prototype finished for the 1957 Le Mans. Body “possibly” by Williams & Pritchard."
Where is that? Williams & Pritchard? It doesn't look like Peel, judging by this photo supposedly at their works:
Very interesting picture that I haven't seen before. I've allways believed that someone else must have built the bodies for the aluminium Arnott cars just given how much more advanced they look than the "standard models". I haven't seen any good pictures of how Arnotts garage looking like, so the picture could have been taken there too afaik. When posted on Insta, that image was titled "manufacturer Lady Daphne Arnott getting the Arnott 1100cc alloy prototype finished for the 1957 Le Mans. Body “possibly” by Williams & Pritchard."
Where is that? Williams & Pritchard? It doesn't look like Peel, judging by this photo supposedly at their works:
While that is said I agree that it don't look like the picture was taken at either Peels or Williams & Pritchard based on how I understand their places were. You also had Wakefield and Maurice Gomm (and probably others too) whom were very active with building aluminium bodies for racing specials and sport cars in the period. Unfortunately I don't have a complete overview of how their premises looked like and Gomm at least also moved around a bit, however I have at least a couple of pictures that shows parts of their workshop in the background.
Maurice Gomm in 1957:
Wakefield in 1958:
I'm not sure if either could fit with being part of the same premesis as the Arnott picture was taken on? They both looks quite old to my eyes, but I'm also not that familiar with British vernacular architecture.
Edited by galro on Tuesday 2nd May 15:42
The Arnott team mechanic was called Bill Cooke, and the designer was called George Thornton.
Thornton went on to be works manager for Motor Racing Developments/Brabham, and team manager for Surtees. Perhaps he designed the Climax gullwing Arnott, but there doesn't seem to be much written about him.
There was an interview with Daphne Arnott in the September 1990 Classic And Sprtscar, but I don't have that issue. The 1957 Le Mans Gullwing is pictured on the contents page - painted red.
According to Wikipedia, around 25 Arnott cars were built, most with GRP bodies, at Arnott's Garage, Harlesden, London. This would include the 500cc racers and the road cars.
The company ran from 1951 to 1957, so a few years before the mystery car picture was taken. If there is a connection, perhaps George Thornton or another former Arnott employee were behind the mystery car.
Perhaps a few e-mails to authors of Brabham books could lead somewhere.............
Thornton went on to be works manager for Motor Racing Developments/Brabham, and team manager for Surtees. Perhaps he designed the Climax gullwing Arnott, but there doesn't seem to be much written about him.
There was an interview with Daphne Arnott in the September 1990 Classic And Sprtscar, but I don't have that issue. The 1957 Le Mans Gullwing is pictured on the contents page - painted red.
According to Wikipedia, around 25 Arnott cars were built, most with GRP bodies, at Arnott's Garage, Harlesden, London. This would include the 500cc racers and the road cars.
The company ran from 1951 to 1957, so a few years before the mystery car picture was taken. If there is a connection, perhaps George Thornton or another former Arnott employee were behind the mystery car.
Perhaps a few e-mails to authors of Brabham books could lead somewhere.............
Edited by borrani72 on Wednesday 3rd May 14:28
borrani72 said:
The Arnott team mechanic was called Bill Cooke, and the designer was called George Thornton.
Thornton went on to be works manager for Motor Racing Developments/Brabham, and team manager for Surtees. Perhaps he designed the Climax gullwing Arnott, but there doesn't seem to be much written about him.
There was an interview with Daphne Arnott in the September 1990 Classic And Sprtscar, but I don't have that issue. The 1957 Le Mans Gullwing is pictured on the contents page - painted red.
According to Wikipedia, around 25 Arnott cars were built, most with GRP bodies, at Arnott's Garage, Harlesden, London. This would include the 500cc racers and the road cars.
The company ran from 1951 to 1957, so a few years before the mystery car picture was taken. If there is a connection, perhaps George Thornton or another former Arnott employee were behind the mystery car.
Perhaps a few e-mails to authors of Brabham books could lead somewhere.............
I might have that edition somewhere... what I do recall about the cars being painted 'red' (nothing to do with Italian cars) was simply because it was Daphne's favourite colour. Thornton went on to be works manager for Motor Racing Developments/Brabham, and team manager for Surtees. Perhaps he designed the Climax gullwing Arnott, but there doesn't seem to be much written about him.
There was an interview with Daphne Arnott in the September 1990 Classic And Sprtscar, but I don't have that issue. The 1957 Le Mans Gullwing is pictured on the contents page - painted red.
According to Wikipedia, around 25 Arnott cars were built, most with GRP bodies, at Arnott's Garage, Harlesden, London. This would include the 500cc racers and the road cars.
The company ran from 1951 to 1957, so a few years before the mystery car picture was taken. If there is a connection, perhaps George Thornton or another former Arnott employee were behind the mystery car.
Perhaps a few e-mails to authors of Brabham books could lead somewhere.............
Edited by borrani72 on Wednesday 3rd May 14:28
I do recall part of that story re the 'red' cars...
When they took the cars for their first race in France they had to paint them 'green' and to do so they used distemper ...which was great until it began to rain!
I must see if I can find that issue.
We watch The Goldberg’s on E4. It’s an amazing sitcom based in 80s America.
The closing credits of tonight’s episode included period footage of the rear of a car.
It looks like some kind of 80s coupe. I thought it was a De Tomaso Longchamp
Having googled that car, I’m now not so sure…
Is it something American??
The closing credits of tonight’s episode included period footage of the rear of a car.
It looks like some kind of 80s coupe. I thought it was a De Tomaso Longchamp
Having googled that car, I’m now not so sure…
Is it something American??
Doofus said:
Duke Caboom said:
Doofus said:
Bitter SC?
Oversteery beat us to it! What I find fascinating quite often, is what people don't know. I think it's to do with level of interest: I knew instantly that this was a Bitter and was surprised that any car enthusiast didn't, but I'd be hard pressed to identify the nuances of the current BMW range - because I have no interest in it.
Same here. I came up behind a new BMW model the other day, that I had never seen before. I then saw the registration number and it was already 2 years old, so either they haven’t sold many (unlikely for a company like BMW) or my brain just isn’t interested enough to notice them. I think I gave up on BMW when they went downmarket with the junior drug dealer 1 series.
Turbobanana said:
What I find fascinating quite often, is what people don't know. I think it's to do with level of interest: I knew instantly that this was a Bitter and was surprised that any car enthusiast didn't, but I'd be hard pressed to identify the nuances of the current BMW range - because I have no interest in it.
Isn’t the reason this (seemingly popular) thread exists is for the identification of a car you don’t recognise or even knew existed?I’m just back from Essen so consider myself a classic car enthusiast but I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen a Bitter SC before.
Surely you can’t know every car ever made.
Doofus said:
BeastieBoy73 said:
Isn’t the reason this (seemingly popular) thread exists is for the identification of a car you don’t recognise or even knew existed?
Actually, no. This thread is about one specific car, and it's not a Bitter.I thought it was a generic “what’s this mystery car” thread.
Thanks for the info regarding the Bitter SC.
As you were.
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