Another mystery car

[838HNK]

This is the TR4 prototype ... so I'm going down the Michelotti line but probably a Simca or something small and French as the base car.

[uk66fastback]

Don't ask me why or how, but I was sitting and thinking about this earlier and somehow imagined a scenario where some new PH member with his first post said in some broken English that he had it in a lock up and then gave a full description of what it is and the spec, before posting half a dozen dark photos of it with a nice layer of 'barn dust' (the paintwork now being black in colour) and the interior being some oxblood leather that has itself nearly gone black over time - all dried out and dying for a restore ...

Sad!

[838HNK]

Need to pay attention to earlier bits of the thread ... especially page 9 ... sorry Mystery Car Fever

[sun.and.rain]

uk66fastback said:

Don't ask me why or how, but I was sitting and thinking about this earlier and somehow imagined a scenario where some new PH member with his first post said in some broken English that he had it in a lock up and then gave a full description of what it is and the spec, before posting half a dozen dark photos of it with a nice layer of 'barn dust' (the paintwork now being black in colour) and the interior being some oxblood leather that has itself nearly gone black over time - all dried out and dying for a restore ...

Sad!

. . . . and then, from the last pic I caught sight of a name badge on the front grille. I managed to zoom in and the emblem became clearer, so much clearer. It finally became just large enough to read and it said . . . . .

I WOKE UP. Doh!!

[Lynchie999]

i have an idea...

track down one of the people in the photo... hook them up to a memory extraction machine (this will be invented) .. and find out the name of the car... this process is faster than looking at this image!

[piper]

galro said:

uk66fastback said:

So do we reckon this mystery car is a one-off - I presume the Arnott car built for the '57 Le Mans race was a one-off.

Maybe, maybe not. Hard to say as little information exist, but we have this picture showing a Climax-gt with a slightly different front and slightly different bonnet. Of course it could be the same car that was later modified to provide better cooling, but it could also be a different one.

The car in the video has the fuel filler in the rear wing where as the car in the black and white picture seems to have some type of filler cap in the off side part of the bonnet, they may well be two different cars.

[texaxile]

As mentioned earlier, I can't offer anything to this thread apart from some sincere thanks to the posters doing the detective work, which is expanding my enthusiasm and knowledge to some pretty vague and obscure bespoke models of 50's and 60's cars.

I would also ask why bespoke and small outfits seemed to be so popular back then, were they veiwed with the same kind of perception as people like "overfinch"? or was it a successful cottage industry (but with arguably more skill and craftsmanship).

[Doofus]

texaxile said:

I would also ask why bespoke and small outfits seemed to be so popular back then, were they veiwed with the same kind of perception as people like "overfinch"? or was it a successful cottage industry (but with arguably more skill and craftsmanship).

Many of those small specials builders came about because cars had separate chassis, and no real rust protection. So body swaps became a cheap and effective way of extending a car's life, and of getting the owner into a sports car, when otherwise all he'd be able to afford was a pudding like a Ford 100 or somesuch.

[uk66fastback]

Cars were so much simpler back then, electrics were a couple of dozen wires or so and a doddle to fathom, brake lines, fuel lines clamped to the chassis etc ... body practically fell off with rust. Weld a couple of holes in said chassis, bolt on a glassfibre body (no rust in the future), and you were good to go ... and you had a modern-looking car all of a sudden, not some separate-winged post-war eyesore!

But then as cars developed and got better and the 50s ended and people had more money, they just bought more modern cars from the outset ... rather over-simplified but you get the drift.

[CanAm]

And Unitary construction was pretty much the norm.

[galro]

Another thing is that you could still develop a competitive car in a shed at the time. Now car have gotten so advanced that you need a lot of money, time and equipment to develop anything that is "good" relative to the competition.

And course there were the fact that regulatory environment at the time actually allowed bespoke cars to be registered without much hassle.

Doofus said:

Many of those small specials builders came about because cars had separate chassis, and no real rust protection. So body swaps became a cheap and effective way of extending a car's life, and of getting the owner into a sports car, when otherwise all he'd be able to afford was a pudding like a Ford 100 or somesuch.

That of course had effect on how easy it was to re-body a car, but many small-scale manufacturers (like the now much spoken about Arnott) built their own chassis from the ground up.

Edited by galro on Tuesday 23 February 14:13

[piper]

I wonder if the car may have been based on the original Sunbeam Rapier, the front screen certainly looks like the rear screen of the Rapier. Also the overider’s are very similar, the Mk1 and Mk2 Rapiers unlike the one below did not have the rubber inserts, so would be very much like the ones on the mystery car. Also the wheel trims are similar and there were a few variations over the Rapier's life span which started in 1955. The wheelbase of the Rapier is 96 inches, is anyone clever enough on here to know whether this would match the mystery car.

[galro]

I've tried to get in touch with a person that was said to have some knowledge about Arnott, but I have had no luck so far. I still believe that the answer to this car lies in knowing more about Arnott in general and specifically the 1957 le mans coupé, but I'm also convinced that that information is not available on the internet. Does anyone have any suggestion on where to find information about Arnott? Perhaps you have a old magazine with a article featuring them or have a encyclopedia dedicated to British sports car manufactures founded by women? I personally think it could be interesting to know more about them even if they turn out to be un-related to the mystery car.


And also does anyone have any contact information to Tim Sanders, the person behind the now defunct website dedicated to Williams & Pritchard?

http://www.williamsandpritchardregister.co.uk/

I personally I do not think this car is related to them, but it could be worth confirmed. I'm also interested in information about on a general basis (surprisingly little is found online now after that site disappeared).

[threespires]

galro said:

I've tried to get in touch with a person that was said to have some knowledge about Arnott, but I have had no luck so far. I still believe that the answer to this car lies in knowing more about Arnott in general and specifically the 1957 le mans coupé, but I'm also convinced that that information is not available on the internet. Does anyone have any suggestion on where to find information about Arnott? Perhaps you have a old magazine with a article featuring them or have a encyclopedia dedicated to British sports car manufactures founded by women? I personally think it could be interesting to know more about them even if they turn out to be un-related to the mystery car.


And also does anyone have any contact information to Tim Sanders, the person behind the now defunct website dedicated to Williams & Pritchard?

http://www.williamsandpritchardregister.co.uk/

I personally I do not think this car is related to them, but it could be worth confirmed. I'm also interested in information about on a general basis (surprisingly little is found online now after that site disappeared).

You're working hard there. I hope something turns up for you.....

[galro]

threespires said:

You're working hard there. I hope something turns up for you.....

Not that hard really. I have just written one e-mail. But as mentioned I'm interesting in getting more information about Arnott and Williams & Pritchard irrespective of the mystery car too.

[Dr G]

galro, does this show anything you didn't already know? There are a couple of slightly later archived versions of the page on there also:

http://web.archive.org/web/20081006023619/http://w...

[galro]

Dr G said:

galro, does this show anything you didn't already know? There are a couple of slightly later archived versions of the page on there also:

http://web.archive.org/web/20081006023619/http://w...

Thanks. That version seems to mostly focus on the kits they sold which I do not think are that interesting, however the newer archieved version of 2010 seems to have a lot more information about the coachbuilds they also did. It even contains a list of work they did:

http://web.archive.org/web/20110725055559/http://w...

Arnott is not mentioned anywhere either. Of course the list is said to be incomplete, but I would have thought it would have been known if they did the body on a le mans competition car that survived (albeit still under restoration at the point). Add that the general style in my opinion do not reflect their work and I personally do not think they were involved with the Arnott gt or the mystery car.

Edited by galro on Saturday 27th February 13:25

[galro]

Are anyone familiar with any other coachbuilders in London/England that produced bodies for smalls series/one-off of sports cars/coupées at the time? I know about F.L.M. Panelcraft in London who did a couple of sports cars (all seems to have been destroyed sadly) in addition to the estate conversion they were more famous for, but I'm pretty sure they too had nothing to do with either cars. Are there any others?

[Roy C]

Peel Coachworks in Kingston (behind the Sir Robert Peel pub)

Many small coachbuilders didn't survive after WW2 (Jarvis, Abbey, Corsica, etc).
Interesting to note that both FLM Panelcraft and Williams & Pritchard were founded by ex-Corsica men.

Edited by Roy C on Sunday 28th February 15:05

[restoman]

Bump - to keep it on the front page . . .