Why so few private sales of classics?

[Poisson96]

My Minor was purchased through word of mouth, as have several other projects we had/have.

[lowdrag]

While you find many so-called dealers advertising the car, many are actually brokers. They don't own the cars they advertise and are selling them on commission. And I'm not sure that I would be prepared to put £150,000 of my own in an E-type to sell on at, say, £180,000. Most of us remember only too well the last crash at the beginning of the 1990s, and I for one still kick myself that I missed an early outside lock roadster which had had over £70,000 in restoration costs being sold at auction for £21,000 a year later in 1992. I bought a delivery mileage 348TS that year for £47,000 where someone had got his fingers really burned by speculating and it going wrong.

[S47]

Lowdrag
What you say maybe true - however, why as a private buyer do I need to pay the dealer his 30K commission [using your example] I simply buy that car privately at £150k, and eliminate the dealer
The £30K I save ought to be ample to sort out the small niggles you always get when buying a used car.

[lowdrag]

Ah, but a private sale brings no guarantee. The Slae of Goods Act will afford some protection since you are buying from the broker and not the owner. At least that is my understanding of the situation, but I am sure one of our legal eagles will come up with chapter and verse.

[aardvark64]

Jukebag said:

Ridiculous offer maker, I think that interprets as sensible offer maker. People who ask for something like 40 grand for say a near rusting or half project Healey 3000 or E Type.are the ones who are kidding themselves. There are plenty out there like that. It truly baffles me when I see examples like that and the sellers are so hard faced in asking money like that. People are so greedy.

Works both ways: there are plenty of buyers out there who've watched too much 'Bargain Hunt' and automatically make a stupidly low offer 'cos they don't want the car for its own sake. They are just as greedy as the owners who expect to sell at the top prices we read about in the financial press.

Whenever I've sold privately, I've set the price to reflect the 'Average' or 'A1' price with suitable amounts taken off for dings, scratches, needs new brake pads etc. I know how much these cost to fix and I've declared them up-front in the advert. So anyone viewing the car knows the issues already and can see the car has been priced accordingly. I know all about depreciation and cost of fuel, I've owned the car myself for a while. Of course there will be some bargaining to be done, but I'm looking for a sensible offer from someone who actually wants the car.

So when a tyre-kicker or day-time TV wannabe offers me half that again and tries the mouthy approach, I count that as a ridiculous offer. When it's happened, I've quoted one of the lines from Ridley Scott's film 'Kingdom of Heaven': "Thank you for your ... visit".

[S47]

AArdvaark
Well put - nice to see another person who lives in the real world, and owns them for a few years instead of selling them on behalf of their neighbour/sister/grandad etc. [ie. a dealer]

[ChasW]

S47 said:

AArdvaark
Well put - nice to see another person who lives in the real world, and owns them for a few years instead of selling them on behalf of their neighbour/sister/grandad etc. [ie. a dealer]

+1

My stock response to anyone asking if the price is negotiable is "if, upon inspection, you find a genuine reason (ie something I have not already highlighted) then I might be prepared to discuss price". Interestingly with the last car I sold the buyer found some body corrosion I was not aware of. It turns out he was a bit of a marque specialist and knew exactly where to look and what to expect. He wasn't fussed and did not use it as a negotiating ploy.

[mph]

S47 said:

Lowdrag
What you say maybe true - however, why as a private buyer do I need to pay the dealer his 30K commission [using your example] I simply buy that car privately at £150k, and eliminate the dealer
The £30K I save ought to be ample to sort out the small niggles you always get when buying a used car.

Perhaps you'd think differently if you'd paid £150k to a private seller only to find out the car wasn't what it seemed to be and you had no recourse. £30k commission is not representative in my experience.

I've sold several cars through dealers. I've achieved more than I could have privately and had no hassle.

Contrast this to re-scheduling your day to wait for buyers that don't materialise, tyre-kickers, dreamers, downright liars, and if you have a car of value, taking the risk of total strangers attending your home.

My friend currently has a Mk2 jaguar for sale. So far he's had one no-show (after taking time off work to meet the "buyer" who pestered him for an appointment), one chap who's been back with his "specialist" and then made a derisory offer. To cap it all the advert has now been cloned on a well known auction site.

[lowdrag]

Jukebag said:

Ridiculous offer maker, I think that interprets as sensible offer maker. People who ask for something like 40 grand for say a near rusting or half project Healey 3000 or E Type.are the ones who are kidding themselves. There are plenty out there like that. It truly baffles me when I see examples like that and the sellers are so hard faced in asking money like that. People are so greedy.

Sadly, it is you who is kidding yourself. This car was sold at Anglia Auctions in August:-



£40,000 you say? £115,000 was the hammer price. Another, so rusty one could see through the bonnet and wing to the ground, sold a while back for £78,000. This is the real world of classic car values.

[POORCARDEALER]

lowdrag said:

Jukebag said:

Ridiculous offer maker, I think that interprets as sensible offer maker. People who ask for something like 40 grand for say a near rusting or half project Healey 3000 or E Type.are the ones who are kidding themselves. There are plenty out there like that. It truly baffles me when I see examples like that and the sellers are so hard faced in asking money like that. People are so greedy.

Sadly, it is you who is kidding yourself. This car was sold at Anglia Auctions in August:-



£40,000 you say? £115,000 was the hammer price. Another, so rusty one could see through the bonnet and wing to the ground, sold a while back for £78,000. This is the real world of classic car values.

Selling at classic car auction such as Anglia is quite a good proposition these days....prices are buoyant and commission low.

[jamoor]

S47 said:

Poorcardealer
I'd rather pay a high price to a private seller to buy their coveted pride & joy. Than to any dealer who's only in it to make a fast buck at my expense.
Private buyers DON'T need dealers we only need private sellers

To be fair I prefer to buy from private sellers, it has always been hassle buying a car from a dealer

[Jukebag]

£115,000 for a rusty early E-Type roadster is ludicrous, and I guarantee I am not the only one who thinks that. Forget about this "it's what the market is at the moment", it's all talk, just brainwashing. You're paying big money (price of an house - unless you live in London) for what is basically rust. And yet people snigger at fibreglass kit versions that can be bought for a fraction of the cost: no rust issues, no huge running costs, etc. £40,000 was just an example I was giving of the average prices of alot of E-Types lately. Even the less desirable 2+2 seem to be rising to the 40 grand mark, in some cases I've seen.

Here's a sensible offer (from about 20 years ago lol):

Edited by Jukebag on Sunday 30th October 10:37

[LotusOmega375D]

One thing that has often annoyed me in the motoring media is this idea that you should go to look at any car for sale and then deduct money from the asking price in relation to any faults you find, before making your offer.

Why?

The seller has set the asking price for the car as it is, not as it will be when someone has spent another X-hundred/thousand on maintenance, parts etc.

If you want an "as new" car then go to a dealer and pay full whack for a new one.

[Allan L]

LotusOmega375D said:

The seller has set the asking price for the car as it is, not as it will be when someone has spent another X-hundred/thousand on maintenance, parts etc.

Same as with houses on the whole, where a would-be buyer will spend money on a surveyor who will find enough faults, including those declared by the seller, to justify his fee.

[sherbertdip]

Slightly off topic as it's a replica; first advert is original advertising, it didn't sell, see current advert; now if that isn't dealer profiteering i don't know what is.

http://www.sovereigncarsales.co.uk/Replicas_gridpo...

http://www.sovereigncarsales.co.uk/Replicas_Gridpo...

[ChasW]

LotusOmega375D said:

One thing that has often annoyed me in the motoring media is this idea that you should go to look at any car for sale and then deduct money from the asking price in relation to any faults you find, before making your offer.

Why?

The seller has set the asking price for the car as it is, not as it will be when someone has spent another X-hundred/thousand on maintenance, parts etc.

If you want an "as new" car then go to a dealer and pay full whack for a new one.

Works both ways. I use that argument if I feel the buyer is being picky and unreasonable. Equally if a car is not as described then that gives you genuine reason to negotiate. These days it should happen less with the ability to provide high quality images etc up front

[lowdrag]

I guess Jukebag is the only one who is right and that the rest of the world is wrong. A 1962 E-type coupé sold yesterday in Paris for £100,000. Obviously to a very stupid person of course, since the estimate was £40-60,000. But then, following his reasoning, just have a look at this advert:-



The first, chassis #4, I tried to buy for three years in the 1990s and it eventually sold for £65,000 in bits at auction with no bonnet and loads of bits missing. Too rich for my blood that was, and it was at the turn of the century before the current boom.

[Fast Bug]

Jukebag said:

£115,000 for a rusty early E-Type roadster is ludicrous, and I guarantee I am not the only one who thinks that. Forget about this "it's what the market is at the moment", it's all talk, just brainwashing. You're paying big money (price of an house - unless you live in London) for what is basically rust. And yet people snigger at fibreglass kit versions that can be bought for a fraction of the cost: no rust issues, no huge running costs, etc. £40,000 was just an example I was giving of the average prices of alot of E-Types lately. Even the less desirable 2+2 seem to be rising to the 40 grand mark, in some cases I've seen.

Here's a sensible offer (from about 20 years ago lol):

Edited by Jukebag on Sunday 30th October 10:37

I'd like house prices to be the same as they were 20 years ago, sadly they've gone up in price just like everything else!

[codieskid]

As others have said I think there are a lot of sellers turning to dealers to sell their cars. I spoke to a well known classic car dealer recently who said the commission for selling my car would be around 5%. As a seller I think that is pretty good. Not only will the dealer deal with all sale enquiries but they will generally return a higher sale price than a private individual so the commission gets eaten up anyway.

I bought my 67 S1 E-type FHC privately about a year and a half ago as I saw the prices creeping up and thought I was going to be completely priced out of E-type ownership if I left it much longer. Although my car isn't perfect I don't think I'd get the same car today for anything near what I paid.

[POORCARDEALER]

codieskid said:

As others have said I think there are a lot of sellers turning to dealers to sell their cars. I spoke to a well known classic car dealer recently who said the commission for selling my car would be around 5%. As a seller I think that is pretty good. Not only will the dealer deal with all sale enquiries but they will generally return a higher sale price than a private individual so the commission gets eaten up anyway.

I bought my 67 S1 E-type FHC privately about a year and a half ago as I saw the prices creeping up and thought I was going to be completely priced out of E-type ownership if I left it much longer. Although my car isn't perfect I don't think I'd get the same car today for anything near what I paid.

That looks stunning, is it silver or a mink colour?