why no love for beford/vauxhall?

[droopsnoot]

LuS1fer said:

Magazines of that era were well known for vaunting British products.

I do recall another edition of Car magazine telling us how great the brand new Austin Ambassador was going to be. Admittedly this was in comparison to the earlier Princess model, but I remember being surprised at the time that they were so positive about it.

[MarkwG]

300bhp/ton said:

I think we obviously disagree. But I'm not sure your views are actually agreed with the wider motoring media or general public either. Maybe you could provide some evidence to your claims? The Car magazine cover posted above is certainly at odds with what you are suggesting.

Oh and your last statement, nope couldn't be further from the truth. JLR might be successful at the moment, but both companies are million miles away from the kinds of products and market segment they used to be in, 50's, 60's or whenever.

Don't confuse success being something it isn't.

This thread isn't really about Jaguar, but since you've asked: most of the people I talk to & media I see hold the same affection for Jaguar I do, actually. I've driven & been driven in the older cars, & they were very pleasant, but not at the cutting edge. When new, & once off the dealer forecourt they were subject to reliability levels that others certainly didn't suffer from. Jaguar had no sustainable answer for the German competition, as they were saddled with a limited variety of powerplants & a dealer network that hadn't moved forward at all. The market cried out for a good diesel, or an 8 & 12 cylinder, all arrived but not for a long time. I recall a number of friends & colleagues who loved the way their Jag drove but swore never to buy another, as they tired of time waiting for repairs on relatively new vehicles. I'm obviously not going to name names. Which is not to say there weren't also good cars, but consistency is the key.

I've also no intention of spending the night in the loft hunting through old magazines, & I'm sure you can Google as well as I can, so here's a couple to be going on with. They echo what was said at the time, even if written more recently & summarise it well.

http://classics.honestjohn.co.uk/reviews/jaguar/xj...

http://classics.honestjohn.co.uk/reviews/jaguar/xj...

Whilst they kept the flame alight, perhaps, they didn't lead the world in the way the E type & original XJ did. It takes an awful long time to rebuild an image & John Egan may have started the work in 1980, but it didn't pay off immediately. Yes, they got better, but they had a long way to come back from.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/the-man-who-sav...

I don't see your last point at all: allowing for the market drift all cars have undergone,the XE & XF fill the segments of the Mk2 & it's brethren, the F Type sits close to where the E Type was & the XJ is where the XJ was? They have a wider range of engines, but they're still in premium & sporting cars, both areas it could be argued Jaguar invented.

[LuS1fer]

droopsnoot said:

I do recall another edition of Car magazine telling us how great the brand new Austin Ambassador was going to be. Admittedly this was in comparison to the earlier Princess model, but I remember being surprised at the time that they were so positive about it.

In fairness, the Princess 2 that we had was a very good car - not in terms of handling but it had Citroenesque levels of comfort and a Tardis interior that Ford could only dream of. The transverse 2.2 litre six (eat your heart out, VW) was reasonably refined, as well.

While the Ambassador lost the six and made do with the 1700 and 2000 fours, the addition of a huge hatch (instead of the Princess' boot) made the thing enormously practical and it lost the "tacked on" look of the Princess rear lights. A friend of mine had an older Ambassador as a daily and it was also incredibly reliable and I personally think that the Princess 2/Ambassador was one of BL's finer moments in terms of avant-garde styling in an era of Ford boxiness and offered a good alternative to the Citroen CX with it's odd steering and strange brakes.

Back on point, Vauxhall had one or two "highlights" but little that Ford didn't eclipse - the droopsnoot Firenza, the Chevette HS, the Lotus Carlton but Ford out-PR'd them, despite their successes in motorsport, because they had more money. It's all about USP - Toyota had reliability, Datsun had specification but Vauxhall were mainly just plodders.

Edited by LuS1fer on Monday 12th December 19:47

[mgv8]

Lotus Carlton is a good point. Amazing car, and I expect better then the Cosworth but did not race.

[Scotty2]

This is my Bedford. Rare mint example of a once popular workhorse. One day soon (when I can get a 4x4 gearbox) her big sister "Rosie" will be reborn too.


In fact here is Rosie. Some work has been carried out since pic but the elusive 4x4 box has not been found yet.

Edited by Scotty2 on Tuesday 13th December 17:11

[Hugh Jarse]

[quote=Scotty2]This is my Bedford. Rare mint example of a once popular workhorse

Great!

[droopsnoot]

Chap near me used to have a 4x4 CF, quite a few years ago.

[Hugh Jarse]

Rosie looks a bit too "free candy" (at the moment)

Edited by Hugh Jarse on Wednesday 14th December 22:12

[Wacky Racer]

RichB said:

Wacky Racer said:

Three speed column change and a sporty front bench seat.

Three speeds Surely not?

Indeed. It was three years old, in perfect condition and cost £515.

I can remember it used to drink quite a lot of petrol, the garage looked at it several times and there was a problem with the float needle in the carb I seem to remember.

1800cc OHC, engine canted over to the side.

[Scotty2]

Free Candy!!

"You've scored luv, get in the back of the van..."

Droopsnoot, Did the guy leave a 4x4 box in his shed at all??? You will find it behind the pile of rocking horse poo, Hens teeth and under the unicorn horns.

If anyone knows of one I'd be rather pleased to have it.

Edited by Scotty2 on Tuesday 13th December 19:32

[Mercky]

Wacky Racer said:

Indeed. It was three years old, in perfect condition and cost £515.

I can remember it used to drink quite a lot of petrol, the garage looked at it several times and there was a problem with the float needle in the carb I seem to remember.

1800cc OHC, engine canted over to the side.

I had one with a 3 speed column change, but it was 1600cc. Pretty sure they didnt do the FD with an 1800, it was 1600, 2000 or 2300 for the 4 cylinder and 3.3 for the six.

[LuS1fer]

Mercky said:

had one with a 3 speed column change, but it was 1600cc. Pretty sure they didnt do the FD with an 1800, it was 1600, 2000 or 2300 for the 4 cylinder and 3.3 for the six.

1600, 2000 and 3.3 for the Ventora.
The 1600 and 2000 were uprated to 1800/2300.

My father's Firenza 2000SL in Flamenco red with black vinyl roof had a grey grille as standard while the revised 2300 SL got a black grille.
Though I liked this blue metallic version, I also liked the metallic green with lighter green contrasting stripe.


My friend's father (a well-off farmer) had a metallic green Viscount 3.3 - always a very non-descript car but the nearest thing we had to the size and look of an American car (while Ford had gone off the rails with the horrendous Zephyr/Zodiac Mk IV and Austin had the monstrously ugly 3 litre). He liked it enough to keep it for a long time and many liked the column shift..

Edited by LuS1fer on Tuesday 13th December 19:57

[Wacky Racer]

Mercky said:

Wacky Racer said:

Indeed. It was three years old, in perfect condition and cost £515.

I can remember it used to drink quite a lot of petrol, the garage looked at it several times and there was a problem with the float needle in the carb I seem to remember.

1800cc OHC, engine canted over to the side.

I had one with a 3 speed column change, but it was 1600cc. Pretty sure they didnt do the FD with an 1800, it was 1600, 2000 or 2300 for the 4 cylinder and 3.3 for the six.

You may be right, it was a long time ago.

I can remember the car like yesterday, as it was my first one.

[Nigel Worc's]

Hugh Jarse said:

Actually not a knocking thread, but in the classic scene they are not so hotly contested.
Vauxhall have a following in Sweden and other places in the classic scene.
They are a MASSIVE part of UK motoring and manufactruing heritage.
We can turn this thread into a love in.
I borrowed a mates Viva for six months and it had a very stiff chassis, one of the stiffest ever apparently (before the modern era).
Felt solid and dependable. Lime green metallic two door.
I like these:

My grandad used to drive one of those, coloured brown and owned by Cadburys (it had a tipper style back though).

[lowdrag]

The only Vauxhall I ever owned was a 1983 Sri and it was a truly fine car. Cavaliers of that era were much loved by taxi drivers which says a lot. Some years earlier I had tried a Magnum and was appalled. I watched Victors, Ventoras and Veloxes dissolve before my eyes, but then most cars did in those days I guess. But they never appealed for some reason. It's like you were either a Morris or an Austin person although they were identical under the skin. I hated Vivas with a passion for their horrible looks, so boxy, so soulless, so benign, I admired the Senator (as did the police!) and Monza, but to tell the truth I haven't really thought about them in latter years except to dislike the Insignia's looks for some reason. But please, please, someone let me drive a Prince Henry!

[entwistlecymru]

Here's a couple of the better examples from my ever expanding collection......





My father always had boggo basic Cavaliers as company cars so I guess that's where my obsession for GM metal comes from. I can still remember driving behind a brand spanking new Lotus Carlton, sitting in the passenger seat of Dads G reg beige mk3 Cavalier and gawping at the huge spoiler and square tailpipes. He didn't seem too impressed but I think he was just a little bit envious

[wibble cb]

RichB said:

347Andy said:

RichB said:

Wacky Racer said:

Three speed column change and a sporty front bench seat.

Three speeds Surely not?

3 speed was std on FD's even the 2ltr though nearly all of them had the optional 4 on the floor.

wow... The only 3 speed car I drove was a Sit-up-and-Beg Ford Popular E93. I assumed all cars had progressed to 4 speeds by the late '60s.

The Austin Healey 100 BN1 was fitted with a 4 speed box, but had 1 gear blanked off as the torque was deemed sufficient enough to not need the gear - I think it was 4th, happy to be corrected.

[RichB]

You are indeed correct but the Healey 100/4 was not a car sold in the 1970s.

[droopsnoot]

Scotty2 said:

Droopsnoot, Did the guy leave a 4x4 box in his shed at all??? You will find it behind the pile of rocking horse poo, Hens teeth and under the unicorn horns.

If anyone knows of one I'd be rather pleased to have it.

I asked him, he's got a 4x4 transfer box, but not a gearbox unfortunately. And a few other bits and pieces.

[PVN]

I have a 2004 Vauxhall Astra convertible 1.8 litre. I bought it originally as a car to use for a bit of top down driving when the weather wasn't suitable for my TVR and, also, to be a spare car should any of the family need one. That was three years ago and I have become rather enchanted by this little car. It is 100% reliable, very economical, reasonably fun to drive as well as being quiet and comfortable. The roof is completely water tight and operates perfectly. When I brought it home my wife asked if her wheelchair would fit in the boot. I didn't think her large one would but not to worry as we have a smaller one that fits in the TVR boot. Surprise, surprise the Astra boot swallowed the wheelchair easily.

This week my estate car was in the garage and the Astra was pressed into service. In the boot I managed to fit:- the large wheelchair with cushion and fleece, my semi-acoustic guitar in it's hard case, a large bag containing sequencer, guitar pedals, microphone, cables and extension leads and, last but not least, a microphone stand! The back seat held my large guitar amplifier and my wife's wheelchair bag.

Who would have thought a fun convertible could be such a beast of burden? I certainly didn't. So my affection for this little car keeps on growing. It may not yet be quite old enough to be considered a classic but I don't care. This thread is about, "love for Vauxhall", and I definitely am very fond of mine.