Public Right of Way

[ukaskew]

I started trail running recently so have delved into the world of looking at Land Ranger maps and council right of way maps; not something I have ever had any knowledge of until now.

I've planned out a few interesting routes (trying where possible to use actual trails rather than field crossings which I'm not a fan of), but I keep finding sections which I'm not really comfortable with (I run alone, usually late evening or very early in the morning with my head torch).

Here's a good example, an excellent long loop from my house avoiding all but a tiny bit of field, but one sticking point, a public right of way which goes straight through a property (literally)...



How does this work, in practice? I a) don't want to be an arse and plough on through a few times per week, particularly as I run at night with a blazing head torch, and b) don't really fancy any confrontation either, even though presumably legally I'm in the clear.

Can I skirt around the property boundary instead, or will that actually make matters worse? I couldn't find an obvious way that you would actually follow this route anyhow.

I've also found a few rights of way which follow some very long (i.e. half mile) driveways to homes and then shoot off just before the property, a few of which have 'private property' signs at the driveway entrance, presumably the right of way is regardless of the owners signage?

[xjay1337]

Just run around the boundary.......

[Vocal Minority]

If the legal right exists the legal right exists and that is all there is to it. And any signage will just be hoping to put people off.

Make sure their database is up to date as these can be extinguished if not used - though it's bloody hard.

At the end of the day, you may get confrontation, you may not. It's up to how you feel about it - I know many on here take the stand point of legal = right - but at the end of the day, even if it is legal, would you feel bad for doing it?

[ukaskew]

Vocal Minority said:

but at the end of the day, even if it is legal, would you feel bad for doing it?

This is my point, really. From a brief bit of research I've read many say that you must absolutely exercise the right of way as it's shown if you're going that way (I would guess the right of way existed before the property and the owner knew exactly what they were getting into), otherwise firstly the whole point of right of way gets eroded, and secondly you're technically in the wrong if you take the path of least resistance rather than the correct path.

But my default stance is that I don't want any hassle for me or the owner, so the path of least resistance is far more appealing.

By the way, this is a single example of many on pretty much any route I've devised, so don't want to get hung up on this precise example.

[Accelebrate]

Around here they're usually fairly well signed once you're on someone's land as they understandably don't want people straying off-course.

[kowalski655]

Try going earlier/ later,in daylight first, there may be obvious signs or diversions. Or you may be able to catch the occupier and see what they say; they might be used to it,or psychotic axe wielding NIMBY's...at least you will find out

[Marvtec]

Get an App called BackCountry Navigator. With GPS enabled this will show exactly where you are in relation to the right of way on an OS map.

Something else you can do is track the ROW using streetview. In the example pic you have posted, if there was a public footpath/bridleway sign at the end of the drive that would give me confidence, without any clear signage and not knowing if its ever used, I probably wouldn't risk wandering around someones property.

It may be legal, but if you're the first person to test it and the homeowner has a big dog/dogs which roam, it may not be fun!

I've had many instances where there 'should' be a ROW but the farmer has decades ago removed any stile/sign and planted hedging.

[ukaskew]

Marvtec said:

Something else you can do is track the ROW using streetview. In the example pic you have posted, if there was a public footpath/bridleway sign at the end of the drive that would give me confidence

Unfortunately all of mine are well away from Streetview coverage. The OS land ranger RoW in the above image I posted interestingly has the RoW bang through the centre of the property, not sure I'd like to test that!

Think I'll try and get out in daylight and figure out what's what based on signage etc, I'm just incredibly uncomfortable in these situations so wondered what the general rule of thumb is as I'm certainly not one to plough on through quoting my legal right to be there at a shotgun carrying farmer

Also, terrified of dogs, which is ironically why I'm exploring these quieter areas as the local country parks etc and more obvious trails are overrrun with dogs, which is fine, but not for me. Managed 6 miles at 6am yesterday on local trails without seeing a single person, which is far more my thing!

Edited by ukaskew on Monday 23 January 14:50

[john2443]

The house seems to be a BnB so hopefully they have reasonable customer facing skills and aren't axe wielders! So you could go and ask.

Also, it looks like there's a track that goes round the edge of the field to the left, which isn't shown as a RoW but might be a line of least resistance alternative.


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Whaddon+Grove+...

[Fozziebear]

Check with your local RoW officer, they will have all the up to date routes on the system. Go in daylight and if you see anyone just wave, works for me and I've not had any issues

[Fish]

The OS maps can often be inaccurate. My brother has had this and for some time gets people up his track, also they are often read wrong. The only legally correct map is the councils definitive footpath map...

I would be surprised if someone has built the house over a right of way... that said you never know.

That house does look quite new so more likely than not they had the footpath moved and OS haven't caught up yet...

[ukaskew]

john2443 said:

The house seems to be a BnB so hopefully they have reasonable customer facing skills and aren't axe wielders! So you could go and ask.

Also, it looks like there's a track that goes round the edge of the field to the left, which isn't shown as a RoW but might be a line of least resistance alternative.


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Whaddon+Grove+...

Thanks, I hadn't noticed that as I was just looking at the OS maps originally. I've emailed the Wiltshire RoW Officer so will see what they say.

My ultimate aim is to have a nice little map of all the RoW trails/tracks (as opposed to fields) in the immediate area that don't have any apparent issues (i.e. properties with dogs on the actual RoW!) that I can plan runs of various distances up to 20 miles on.

[NGee]

Fozziebear said:

Check with your local RoW officer, they will have all the up to date routes on the system. Go in daylight and if you see anyone just wave, works for me and I've not had any issues

Definitely this, go to your local council offices and ask to speak to the RoW officer/dept.
Most take a very dim view of landowners trying to block RoW routes and are usually very proactive but can only do something if they are aware there is a problem.

[motco]

There's a PFP that crosses the driveway of Chequers...

[Willy Nilly]

You'd probably be best to knock on the door ask, with a smiley face, where the footpath goes, because it doesn't look right going past your house. Rather than the belligerent, I'll walk where I bloody well like and what are you going to do about it? that we get around here. Most land owners know the score and don't mind people using footpaths as long as you stick to them, don't drop litter and leave gates as you found them.

[ATG]

As Fish says, OS maps can be out of date in instances like this. I've been caught out trying to follow a RoW through a farmyard at night using an OS 1:50k downloaded a week before. I'd assumed they'd updatd RoWs quite promptly, but it turned out that the RoW I was trying to follow had been moved many years before. If a route I intend to run regularly near a house isn't clear, I'll try to ask the landowner to avoid frightening deaf old ladies in the middle of the night again.

[Marvtec]

ukaskew said:

Also, terrified of dogs, which is ironically why I'm exploring these quieter areas as the local country parks etc and more obvious trails are overrrun with dogs, which is fine, but not for me. Managed 6 miles at 6am yesterday on local trails without seeing a single person, which is far more my thing!

Edited by ukaskew on Monday 23 January 14:50

Going off on a tangent here! But what about working on your phobia rather than trying to avoid dogs altogether? IME you are much more likely to encounter unfriendly, territorial dogs doing what you're doing...

[48k]

Go and recce it in the daylight. There are a few like that near me, and when you actually reach the field there is a discernible path across it. Or in one case at an equestrian centre where they have built an outdoor menage across the RoW - gates in the fence to allow you through the obstruction to allow you to keep on the path

[Who me ?]

Marvtec said:

Going off on a tangent here! But what about working on your phobia rather than trying to avoid dogs altogether? IME you are much more likely to encounter unfriendly, territorial dogs doing what you're doing...

Likewise - out in the open, most dogs will be friendly if you are - I'd try keeping some doggy treats with you, BUT ask the owner first, as some dogs can't have normal doggy treats. I'd suggest that you talk to owners of properties close to your runs ,and again if possible make friends with dogs on premises, ans most ( even the little ones ,possibly more so the little ones) tend to regard their fence as "their " property. You might even find that dogs on properties ( and owners on the remote ones ) welcome a non intrusive runner, as being a second pair of eyes on their property, the same way as LA look on dog owners as extra security on their grounds.

[Chrisgr31]

Like many councils Witshires rights of way map is online and indeed the path goes through the property. https://pages.wiltshire.gov.uk/communityandliving/...

A recce in daylight would and as its a hotel you can just drive up to it to check it out!