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Dick Seaman
795 posts
92 months
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iva cosworth said: Local PHers may be aware of this garage in West Sussex i passed yesterday as there was lots of Lotus Elise panels in a pile in the yard and an MX5 sign outside. Showroom contained Elan,Elite and an incomplete Esprit behind.  That's Fibreglass Services near Arundel. Miles is the owner, originally worked for Lotus in the '60s. Took my Esprit there once to be serviced and fettled, he did a splendid job. Collected the car with my son (10 at the time) and Miles spent an hour giving us a full tour of the workshop, showing us the cars he was working on and generally talking non-stop Lotus. IIRC the beige Elan in the window is his, and he's owned it since new.
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LordBretSinclair
2,023 posts
46 months
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HQB
115 posts
19 months
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Err....at the risk of restarting the various comments a page or so back, there are a few errors regarding the age related registration plate system. The "XSK" Sprite is wearing nothing more special than a standard issue "age related" registration number. This could be because the original number had been sold on by one of the cars owners. Also it could be that it was laid up, unregistered in a barn during late 1983 when, had the then owner failed to register it with the DVLA, the original number would have been lost and thereafter there was insufficient hard evidence to allow the DVLA to return the correct number to the vehicle. There is also the chance that the car is built up from unrelated parts around an original chassis that had lost it's number. Further..it could be a car that was originally exported when brand new and has been brought back to the UK having never been given a UK number when new. The American car is demonstrating a similar situation by having been allocated an "age related" number after import into this country but "XSV" is again simply a random issue registration. I would also point out with respect that the idea of the "XS" part indicating an imported car is not correct. The "SK" and "SV" part is the only relevant part of the registration, both having originally been issued by Caithness CC and Kinross CC prior to the introduction of age related 'plates. When that system started they (DVLA) chose numbers that had been low issues as regards the amount/number of registrations made so, they began by using SV, SU, FF and SK with early (pre 1930) cars getting BS, DS and recently BF series which in that case are four number sets..I.e. BS 1234 etc. So..the Sprite lost it's number and wears a standard 'plate...which is sad and I would hate it but SK is the nicest one to have I think! The US car wears the only sort it can have....but BOTH cars could have better numbers bought for them from a Registration Dealer which would at least look better to the knowledgeable eye but mean nothing to a casual observer! I hope this helps!  
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JimmyJam
1,520 posts
88 months
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stuarte said: RESSE said: 23/08/2012 (I haven't seen one of these for years):  When I was a student in the late '80s, the fittest girl on the course had one of these. Of course, we all wanted a go (in the car). Her name wasn't Gemma was it?
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Pothole
18,021 posts
151 months
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HQB said: Err....at the risk of restarting the various comments a page or so back, there are a few errors regarding the age related registration plate system. The "XSK" Sprite is wearing nothing more special than a standard issue "age related" registration number. This could be because the original number had been sold on by one of the cars owners. Also it could be that it was laid up, unregistered in a barn during late 1983 when, had the then owner failed to register it with the DVLA, the original number would have been lost and thereafter there was insufficient hard evidence to allow the DVLA to return the correct number to the vehicle. There is also the chance that the car is built up from unrelated parts around an original chassis that had lost it's number. Further..it could be a car that was originally exported when brand new and has been brought back to the UK having never been given a UK number when new. The American car is demonstrating a similar situation by having been allocated an "age related" number after import into this country but "XSV" is again simply a random issue registration. I would also point out with respect that the idea of the "XS" part indicating an imported car is not correct. The "SK" and "SV" part is the only relevant part of the registration, both having originally been issued by Caithness CC and Kinross CC prior to the introduction of age related 'plates. When that system started they (DVLA) chose numbers that had been low issues as regards the amount/number of registrations made so, they began by using SV, SU, FF and SK with early (pre 1930) cars getting BS, DS and recently BF series which in that case are four number sets..I.e. BS 1234 etc. So..the Sprite lost it's number and wears a standard 'plate...which is sad and I would hate it but SK is the nicest one to have I think! The US car wears the only sort it can have....but BOTH cars could have better numbers bought for them from a Registration Dealer which would at least look better to the knowledgeable eye but mean nothing to a casual observer! I hope this helps! As I said it was a long time ago, but I was basically right - the Sprite has lost its original number and been issued that one because it's "age-related" and the car was originally registered pre-1963. Interesting detail re: SV/SU etc. I can't recall ever seeing *FF, but perhaps I wouldn't have remarked on it not 'knowing' it was 'one of those' kind of plates.
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radlet6
736 posts
43 months
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nicanary said: 2slo said: Yes that's right, I'm forgetting how old these are. The next series of Sprites (i.e. MG midget shape without the frogeye lights) had a prefix, these didn't, so they would indeed have been dateless. In which case, why wouldn't this be the original reg? Not prefix... suffix. For example ABC 123A for 1963. The prefix would have started in 1983 as in A123 ABC. Now we have an abomination of a system. Some countries have a perfectly simple system, like the Irish - 09 D 12345 means Dublin 2009 registered, the 12345th car that year. C is Cork, OY is Co Offaly, DL Co Donegal etc. Simples. Firstly not all Mk2 Sprites (and Mk1 Midgets) will have a registration suffix. The Suffix system did not come into effect until 1st Jan 1963 when the first A reg suffix came into being. However, this system did not become compulsory until Jan 1965. Middlesex was the first to adopt the scheme with AHX 1 A (HX being the area code for the county). So, as the series 3 Sprite (series 2 Midget) went into production in 1964, some areas of the country will never have registered Mk2 Sprites and Mk 1 Midgets with a suffix letter. To address the second point. Ireland is a lot smaller than the UK and hence resisters far fewer cars so their system is bound to be simpler. Our system is purely an evolution of the original introduced in 1901 which was subsequently modified in 1932 when all the available codes and numbers began to run out. Right now pay attention I will be asking questions later: Each county had a a one or two letter code with registrations running running from 1 to 999. These were issued on size of population so London had A, Lancashire B, right up to the West Riding of Yorkshire with Y. Hampshire then followed with AA. In 1932 a serial letter was introduced before the county code. So in the case of Middlesesx above once they got to AHX 999, the next car would have been registered with BHX 1. Staffordshire was the first to issue such a registration with ARF 1. However this scheme started to run out of possibilities by the 1950's so reverse registrations came into being as per the red E Type above (incidentally this car was first registered in Coventry as designated by the WK). Staffordshire was again the first to issue under this system in 1953. So come the 60's and the suffix letter was introduced as explained above. Again come 1983 we had run out of suffix letters with the last of the 'Y' plate cars being registered in July of that year (Z was always reserved solely for use on plates in Ireland and had been since the original 1932 incarnation of the system, plus it could have been too easily confused with the number 2). So once gain 'reverse' registrations were introduced. I'm sure I don't have to spell out that our current system still uses the area codes - these are the first two characters on the plate with the numbers designating the year of registration and the last three letters the order of registration. But why the change over from 0 plates to 6 plates in September? This again is a throwback to the original system in the 60's. As stated the original A plate cars were registered in January 1964. However, the year letter changing in January each year meant that that buyers would tend to wait until the New Year for the new letter to be issued, so that they could get a "newer" car. This led to major peaks and troughs in sales over the year, and to help flatten this out the industry lobbied to get the scheme changed, so that the change of year letter occurred on 1 August rather than 1 January. This was done in 1967, when 'E' suffixes ran only from 1 January to 31 July, before 'F' suffixes commenced on 1 August. However come the late 90's and so many cars were being registered that the system still could not cope; so biannual changes were introduced in 1999. So the 'S' plate only ran from August 1998 to February 1999. The subsequent 'V' plate then ran from March 1999 to the end of August 1999. Why these dates? Well once again you have the motor industry to thank for that. Hope that clears everything up.
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Elderly
1,419 posts
107 months
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LordBretSinclair said: Stunning E type spotted today in Cornwall   That's been advertised for sale (in the PH classifieds) at a dealer in Bodmin for longer than I can remember.
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dave stew
1,316 posts
36 months
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Saw this A Series Manta on Sunday in a village in Derbyshire:  This Citroen SM is quite often spotted in Nottingham. I took this last week: 
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2slo
1,553 posts
36 months
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radlet6 said: nicanary said: 2slo said: Yes that's right, I'm forgetting how old these are. The next series of Sprites (i.e. MG midget shape without the frogeye lights) had a prefix, these didn't, so they would indeed have been dateless. In which case, why wouldn't this be the original reg? Not prefix... suffix. For example ABC 123A for 1963. The prefix would have started in 1983 as in A123 ABC. Now we have an abomination of a system. Some countries have a perfectly simple system, like the Irish - 09 D 12345 means Dublin 2009 registered, the 12345th car that year. C is Cork, OY is Co Offaly, DL Co Donegal etc. Simples. Firstly not all Mk2 Sprites (and Mk1 Midgets) will have a registration suffix. The Suffix system did not come into effect until 1st Jan 1963 when the first A reg suffix came into being. However, this system did not become compulsory until Jan 1965. Middlesex was the first to adopt the scheme with AHX 1 A (HX being the area code for the county). So, as the series 3 Sprite (series 2 Midget) went into production in 1964, some areas of the country will never have registered Mk2 Sprites and Mk 1 Midgets with a suffix letter. To address the second point. Ireland is a lot smaller than the UK and hence resisters far fewer cars so their system is bound to be simpler. Our system is purely an evolution of the original introduced in 1901 which was subsequently modified in 1932 when all the available codes and numbers began to run out. Right now pay attention I will be asking questions later: Each county had a a one or two letter code with registrations running running from 1 to 999. These were issued on size of population so London had A, Lancashire B, right up to the West Riding of Yorkshire with Y. Hampshire then followed with AA. In 1932 a serial letter was introduced before the county code. So in the case of Middlesesx above once they got to AHX 999, the next car would have been registered with BHX 1. Staffordshire was the first to issue such a registration with ARF 1. However this scheme started to run out of possibilities by the 1950's so reverse registrations came into being as per the red E Type above (incidentally this car was first registered in Coventry as designated by the WK). Staffordshire was again the first to issue under this system in 1953. So come the 60's and the suffix letter was introduced as explained above. Again come 1983 we had run out of suffix letters with the last of the 'Y' plate cars being registered in July of that year (Z was always reserved solely for use on plates in Ireland and had been since the original 1932 incarnation of the system, plus it could have been too easily confused with the number 2). So once gain 'reverse' registrations were introduced. I'm sure I don't have to spell out that our current system still uses the area codes - these are the first two characters on the plate with the numbers designating the year of registration and the last three letters the order of registration. But why the change over from 0 plates to 6 plates in September? This again is a throwback to the original system in the 60's. As stated the original A plate cars were registered in January 1964. However, the year letter changing in January each year meant that that buyers would tend to wait until the New Year for the new letter to be issued, so that they could get a "newer" car. This led to major peaks and troughs in sales over the year, and to help flatten this out the industry lobbied to get the scheme changed, so that the change of year letter occurred on 1 August rather than 1 January. This was done in 1967, when 'E' suffixes ran only from 1 January to 31 July, before 'F' suffixes commenced on 1 August. However come the late 90's and so many cars were being registered that the system still could not cope; so biannual changes were introduced in 1999. So the 'S' plate only ran from August 1998 to February 1999. The subsequent 'V' plate then ran from March 1999 to the end of August 1999. Why these dates? Well once again you have the motor industry to thank for that. Hope that clears everything up. Good post, thanks for taking the time. It was so much simpler when the county code system existed. Often you could look at a car and see where it had been first registered. South Tyneside for instance had the letters CU on their plates (deriving from the old Roman name for South Shields - Caer Urfa). Obviously changes were needed when there were no more permutations but I find it easier to remember old style plates such as this as compared to the new twice yearly issue system.
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LordBretSinclair
2,023 posts
46 months
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2slo said: Good post, thanks for taking the time. It was so much simpler when the county code system existed. Often you could look at a car and see where it had been first registered. South Tyneside for instance had the letters CU on their plates (deriving from the old Roman name for South Shields - Caer Urfa). Obviously changes were needed when there were no more permutations but I find it easier to remember old style plates such as this as compared to the new twice yearly issue system.  the first 2 letters of the current system is the "local tag" and pins the first registration to a particular city or area - is this not just as easy as the "old" system?? For instance any car with WA-WJ I know was originally registered in my home city of Exeter - simples!! http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_...
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2slo
1,553 posts
36 months
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LordBretSinclair said: 2slo said: Good post, thanks for taking the time. It was so much simpler when the county code system existed. Often you could look at a car and see where it had been first registered. South Tyneside for instance had the letters CU on their plates (deriving from the old Roman name for South Shields - Caer Urfa). Obviously changes were needed when there were no more permutations but I find it easier to remember old style plates such as this as compared to the new twice yearly issue system. the first 2 letters of the current system is the "local tag" and pins the first registration to a particular city or area - is this not just as easy as the "old" system?? http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_... I suppose so, I just liked the prefix/ suffix system better and also when there was only one change per year. I understand the reasons for it, I just prefer the old system. I can remember the reg no's of every car I owned in my first twenty years of motoring which were registered under the old system whereas I have to think hard to recall the more modern cars I've owned under the current system. Possibly just a sign I'm getting old 
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Robin Hood
488 posts
74 months
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Here you go:
Location Codes
Anglia (Peterborough, Norwich and Ipswich offices)
AA AB AC AD AE AF AG AH AJ AK AL AM AN AO AP AR AS AT AU AV AW AX AY
Birmingham, Coventry, Wolverhampton, Dudley and Warwickshire
BA to BY
Wales (aka Cymru)
CA CB CC CD CE CF CG CH CJ CK CL CM CN CO CP CR CS CT CU CV CW CX CY
Chester and Shrewsbury
DA DB DC DD DE DF DG DH DJ DK DL DM DN DO DP DR DS DT DU DV DW DX DY
Essex
EA to EY
Forest and Fens (Nottingham and Lincoln office)
FA FB FC FD FE FF FG FH FJ FK FL FM FN FP FR FS FT FU FV FW FX FY
Garden Of England (aka Kent and surrounding areas)
GA GB GC GD GE GF GG GH GJ GK GL GM GN GO GP GR GS GT GU GV GW GX GY
Hampshire and Dorset
HA HB HC HD HE HF HG HH HJ HK HL HM HN HO HP HR HS HT HU HV HX HY HW (Isle of White)
Luton and Northampton
KA KB KC KD KE KF KG KH KJ KK KL KM KN KO KP KR KS KT KU KV KW KX KY
London
LA LB LC LD LE LF LG LH LJ LK LL LM LN LO LP LR LS LT LU LV LW LX LY
Manchester and Merseyside
MA to MY
The North of England
NA NB NC ND NE NF NG NH NJ NK NL NM NN NO NP NR NS NT NU NV NW NX NY
Oxford
OA to OY
Preston and Carlisle
PA PB PC PD PE PF PG PH PJ PK PL PM PN PO PP PR PS PT PU PV PW PX PY
Reading
RA to RY
Scotland
SA SB SC SD SE SF SG SH SJ SK SL SM SN SO SP SR SS ST SU SV SW SX SY
Severn Valley and Worcestershire
VA to VY
West Of England (Exeter, Truro and Bristol)
WA WB WC WD WE WF WG WH WJ WK WL WM WN WO WP WR WS WT WU WV WW WX WY
Yorkshire
YA YB YC YD YE YF YG YH YJ YK YL YM YN YO YP YR YS YT YU YV
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LordBretSinclair
2,023 posts
46 months
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2slo said: Possibly just a sign I'm getting old Aren't we all? 
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2slo
1,553 posts
36 months
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Robin Hood said: Here you go: Thanks
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nicanary
1,000 posts
15 months
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It all used to be in my Observer's Book of Automobiles. Happy days. Still think they could do with having the letters bear some connection with the area, like the Irish system.
The reg system in N. Ireland is totally unfathomable - I can never work out the age of a car at all.
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austin
812 posts
72 months
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Robin Hood said: Here you go:
Location Codes
Anglia (Peterborough, Norwich and Ipswich offices)
AA AB AC AD AE AF AG AH AJ AK AL AM AN AO AP AR AS AT AU AV AW AX AY
Birmingham, Coventry, Wolverhampton, Dudley and Warwickshire
BA to BY
Wales (aka Cymru)
CA CB CC CD CE CF CG CH CJ CK CL CM CN CO CP CR CS CT CU CV CW CX CY
Chester and Shrewsbury
DA DB DC DD DE DF DG DH DJ DK DL DM DN DO DP DR DS DT DU DV DW DX DY
Essex
EA to EY
Forest and Fens (Nottingham and Lincoln office)
FA FB FC FD FE FF FG FH FJ FK FL FM FN FP FR FS FT FU FV FW FX FY
Garden Of England (aka Kent and surrounding areas)
GA GB GC GD GE GF GG GH GJ GK GL GM GN GO GP GR GS GT GU GV GW GX GY
Hampshire and Dorset
HA HB HC HD HE HF HG HH HJ HK HL HM HN HO HP HR HS HT HU HV HX HY HW (Isle of White)
Luton and Northampton
KA KB KC KD KE KF KG KH KJ KK KL KM KN KO KP KR KS KT KU KV KW KX KY
London
LA LB LC LD LE LF LG LH LJ LK LL LM LN LO LP LR LS LT LU LV LW LX LY
Manchester and Merseyside
MA to MY
The North of England
NA NB NC ND NE NF NG NH NJ NK NL NM NN NO NP NR NS NT NU NV NW NX NY
Oxford
OA to OY
Preston and Carlisle
PA PB PC PD PE PF PG PH PJ PK PL PM PN PO PP PR PS PT PU PV PW PX PY
Reading
RA to RY
Scotland
SA SB SC SD SE SF SG SH SJ SK SL SM SN SO SP SR SS ST SU SV SW SX SY
Severn Valley and Worcestershire
VA to VY
West Of England (Exeter, Truro and Bristol)
WA WB WC WD WE WF WG WH WJ WK WL WM WN WO WP WR WS WT WU WV WW WX WY
Yorkshire
YA YB YC YD YE YF YG YH YJ YK YL YM YN YO YP YR YS YT YU YV Not sure that these are right for older registrations. I have several (old) cars registered in Croydon that are PK ..., PL ...., PJ .... Also KK is Kent .
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RESSE
2,556 posts
90 months
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Green Frogeye towing a 1950s style caravan on the M5 Junction 7 this afternoon  Sorry no pics as I was driving.
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Bob CD
67 posts
25 months
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With the greatest of respect, do you think you registration chaps could start your own thread and allow us car watchers to ogle and lust after pretty pictures of motor cars? I'm in danger of losing interest! (Not really, yesterday's 'spots' - actually on a private treasure hunt - included two Renault 4s, a Fiat Multipla whose 50th birthday we were celebrating, a 4 1/2 litre Bentley, an MGA, convertible Morris Minor, a Stanley Steamer and my highly unsuitable Facel 2. Doesn't meant to say that my lust is assuaged...)
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2slo
1,553 posts
36 months
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/\ Fair point, back to what we've seen please
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Alfachick
1,557 posts
66 months
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I saw a couple of classics today, no pics I am affraid as I was bombing along myself. 1st up was a lovely old Morris minor, in green, driven by an older chap with an awesome beard. I did wave but not recognition  Second was an Austin 1800 in that BL beige that they did driven by a lady, smiles and waves were exchanged. Was good to see some other classics on the road up here. I think I have seen them both around before. Also saw that ferrari mondial the other day as well.
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