The danger of old tyres
Discussion
I asked about the regs on selling tyres at a fitters this morning and they said it is actually illegal to sell old stock now , I would imagine that to mean stock up to a year old is ok , three years old is well past a new tyres desirability and I think that would more than put them in a little trouble in their industry regulation.
That really sucks. I am particularly passionate about this, because I often find in the UK classic car scene that many of the cars are "under tyred". Generally there appears to be two reasons; the first is that they can boast that the entire car is original - including the tyres (I am not joking, one guy was driving his MGA on the original set of tyres!); the second appears to be that may people who own a classic for a bit of summer fun, seem hellbent on spending as little as possible on it and buy the cheapest tyres on it (often due to the lack of miles per annum). Ironically both camps often complain about dodgy handling..!
When I used to drive my MGB as a daily driver, i put the best (rain-biased) tyres i could afford. It has to be the only sensible way.
Sorry again, to hear of such a needless accident.
When I used to drive my MGB as a daily driver, i put the best (rain-biased) tyres i could afford. It has to be the only sensible way.
Sorry again, to hear of such a needless accident.
I have bitten the bullet and had replaced the 4 tyres in my Scimiter GTE. They looked cosmetically new, but apparently the rear Pirelli P4's were probobly from the 80's!!!!!! The fronts were from the 90's when the car was restored and not really used since. I feel a lot safer now, only £65 each fitted. I am all for originallity but driving a classic on original tyres is suicidal, Concours judges should respect this for anything other than museum cars.
This could be a very difficult line to follow without opening a whole can of worms we don't want them to look at.
If there was a push to make tyre regulations apply retrospectively then we could see them wanting to apply other safety regulations retrospectively too. For example, classics are allowed to not have seat belts. We are actually lucky that this is the case. The recent change to child seat regulations nearly slipped past a clause that would have mandated EU type approved safety equipment in ALL cars on the road. This would have taken every classic car off the road in one fell swoop. (*)
There are many other things that are allowed in classics, but not in moderns (no ABS, crap brakes, no crash protection, dirty exhausts). Trying to force modern safety standards onto classic cars in going to be fraught with dangers that will ban whole swaithes of the classic scene from the road.
A better approach (IMHO) is to try limiting the life of new tyres. Perhaps an advisory against old tyres should be given. But I can't help feeling that if an attempt to ban them then we would also see the government deciding to also enforce all sorts of other modern legislation at the same time.
Just my thoughts.
I for one won't be driving on aged tyres again, but I can understand why some of the "more show than go" brigade might like to cling to their view of the world.
(*) This came out in discussions with the DoT about the child safety regs. I have a letter at home signed by Dr Stephen Ladyman, the then Minister of State for Transport saying that I can legally carry my children in the back of my XK without seat belts, but if they wear seatbelts I can be prosecuted unless they sit on type approved booster seats which would endanger their health in an accident. As they say "The law is an ass". As a real world copper on PH said, "the maximum fine is £30 quid with no points , can you image what a magistrate would say to us with we prosecuted you for making them wear seat belts. AND can you image what the Daily Mail would make of the letter :-)"
If there was a push to make tyre regulations apply retrospectively then we could see them wanting to apply other safety regulations retrospectively too. For example, classics are allowed to not have seat belts. We are actually lucky that this is the case. The recent change to child seat regulations nearly slipped past a clause that would have mandated EU type approved safety equipment in ALL cars on the road. This would have taken every classic car off the road in one fell swoop. (*)
There are many other things that are allowed in classics, but not in moderns (no ABS, crap brakes, no crash protection, dirty exhausts). Trying to force modern safety standards onto classic cars in going to be fraught with dangers that will ban whole swaithes of the classic scene from the road.
A better approach (IMHO) is to try limiting the life of new tyres. Perhaps an advisory against old tyres should be given. But I can't help feeling that if an attempt to ban them then we would also see the government deciding to also enforce all sorts of other modern legislation at the same time.
Just my thoughts.
I for one won't be driving on aged tyres again, but I can understand why some of the "more show than go" brigade might like to cling to their view of the world.
(*) This came out in discussions with the DoT about the child safety regs. I have a letter at home signed by Dr Stephen Ladyman, the then Minister of State for Transport saying that I can legally carry my children in the back of my XK without seat belts, but if they wear seatbelts I can be prosecuted unless they sit on type approved booster seats which would endanger their health in an accident. As they say "The law is an ass". As a real world copper on PH said, "the maximum fine is £30 quid with no points , can you image what a magistrate would say to us with we prosecuted you for making them wear seat belts. AND can you image what the Daily Mail would make of the letter :-)"
Ken, all cars, old or new need to be safe. The MOT test was introduced back in 1961 purely to get the pre war wrecks off the road and to improve safety standards.At that time anything could be driven with Broken suspension and seized steering components, bald tyres etc etc. So many of these classics which were worthless then, were downright dangerous to everyone else.Students running 2 bob cars, on 2 bob.I worked with a old tester who had started back in the early day. He told me The law were only interested in prosecution if you didn`t have a parking light on your roof at night. The ministry test was so vague then any old crap would pass, the really bad ones would fail. But more cars appeared as we became wealthier, the test became tighter for everything else. It still only represents minimum safety syandards even today, but that depends on how the tester views your car. Most regretably think classics a piece of crap.They apply extra vigilance without consideration for acceptablity . Some of us old boys do know the difference but many don`t. Perhaps special centres for the older vehciles may help, or even a different class structure.Example class 4a for pre/ post war vehicles up to 1970.
Either way, old tyres need to be outlawed and minimum dating standards need to be introduced.
On the subject of seat belts, a recent bit of legislation around the inertia reel belt.If they clip/ unclip, fine, but if they do not unclip under stress, that is by pulling tight on the belt and pressing the release button, its` a fail.The thinking seems fine behind it. If the vehicle is on its` roof the belt cannot be un clipped, that is pretty dangerous.On tyres, with just that hand print between you and the road it makes sense to tighten up the law.
Either way, old tyres need to be outlawed and minimum dating standards need to be introduced.
On the subject of seat belts, a recent bit of legislation around the inertia reel belt.If they clip/ unclip, fine, but if they do not unclip under stress, that is by pulling tight on the belt and pressing the release button, its` a fail.The thinking seems fine behind it. If the vehicle is on its` roof the belt cannot be un clipped, that is pretty dangerous.On tyres, with just that hand print between you and the road it makes sense to tighten up the law.
We look at tyre dates on ALL cars that come into the garage for repair. Last week we received a Porsche 911 that had been 'stored' (left outside) for several years, the tyres were dated 1999 and had major sidewall cracking.
I make sure that customers that have vehicles with either old or defective tires sign a disclaimer that releases the garage against any responsibility and also ensures that the vehicle driver is aware of the situtation and declares the vehicle will not be driven until new tyres are installed. Got to be careful in the USA to avoid being sued.
I make sure that customers that have vehicles with either old or defective tires sign a disclaimer that releases the garage against any responsibility and also ensures that the vehicle driver is aware of the situtation and declares the vehicle will not be driven until new tyres are installed. Got to be careful in the USA to avoid being sued.
Paul,
So sorry to hear about the accident. My best friend / business partner has just taken delivery of a 1955 MGA which has covered 1200 miles since resto in 1990. I will be forwarding him a link to this thread and instructing him to replace the tyres before he does any more trips in it.
Joel
So sorry to hear about the accident. My best friend / business partner has just taken delivery of a 1955 MGA which has covered 1200 miles since resto in 1990. I will be forwarding him a link to this thread and instructing him to replace the tyres before he does any more trips in it.
Joel
D900SP said:
I make sure that customers that have vehicles with either old or defective tires sign a disclaimer that releases the garage against any responsibility and also ensures that the vehicle driver is aware of the situtation and declares the vehicle will not be driven until new tyres are installed. Got to be careful in the USA to avoid being sued.
We used to tell people about this sort of thing (tyres, brakes etc.) and offer to replace them when I worked in a Jeep/Chrysler Dealers. Usually, their reply would be "No, I'll leave it for now" followed by "Did you get the aircon working?" Yep,about right. We are the first in line for public rebuke 99% of the time. When we do consider safety, we are suposedly "ripping off" the public .It is a no win situation. Next year I will now be asking customers to sign disclaimers on all tyres and wheels that are either close to the limit or out of date,if they refuse to accept our advice.
Some 9 months later I thought it wise to return with the information recieved from my tyre supplier, black circles.
We are an approved fitting centre here and the company, although in its ` infancy are a good quality supplier who listen, unlike many many members of the public. I have had many conversations over tyre aging since November and finally they have decided to put some effort behind it.They recently emailed me the following .
TYRE AGEING LAW NEEDED SAYS CORONER.
In Gloucestersire the long debate focusing on whether or not a tyre aging law should be introduced was ignited when a coroner called for a ban that would see ALL vehicle tyres over ten years old , made illegal.
The coroner, Alan Crickmore, has gone as far as writing to the Transport Secretary calling for the law to be changed upon hearing that a mother with two children was killed when 13 year old tyres that were fitted to her car failed.
The incident happened when Nazma Shaheen was driving her Toyota Lucida north on the M5. Unfortunetly the 13 year old tyre burst and caused the car to veer wildly. It clipped a kerb on the hard shoulder, causing the vehicle to roll over. Mrs Shaheen was tragically thrown clear of the vehicle in May last year.
The coroner who carried out the post mortem after the incident concluded the death as being accidental, but added it could have been avoided if Mrs Shaheens` car had not been fitted with OLD tyres.
At present there is no law that dictates that a tyre cannot be used after a certain age. However, manufacturers agree that once a tyre reaches 10 years old it should no longer be used. A number of retailers, black circles included, do not now sell tyres that are 6 years or older.
We are an approved fitting centre here and the company, although in its ` infancy are a good quality supplier who listen, unlike many many members of the public. I have had many conversations over tyre aging since November and finally they have decided to put some effort behind it.They recently emailed me the following .
TYRE AGEING LAW NEEDED SAYS CORONER.
In Gloucestersire the long debate focusing on whether or not a tyre aging law should be introduced was ignited when a coroner called for a ban that would see ALL vehicle tyres over ten years old , made illegal.
The coroner, Alan Crickmore, has gone as far as writing to the Transport Secretary calling for the law to be changed upon hearing that a mother with two children was killed when 13 year old tyres that were fitted to her car failed.
The incident happened when Nazma Shaheen was driving her Toyota Lucida north on the M5. Unfortunetly the 13 year old tyre burst and caused the car to veer wildly. It clipped a kerb on the hard shoulder, causing the vehicle to roll over. Mrs Shaheen was tragically thrown clear of the vehicle in May last year.
The coroner who carried out the post mortem after the incident concluded the death as being accidental, but added it could have been avoided if Mrs Shaheens` car had not been fitted with OLD tyres.
At present there is no law that dictates that a tyre cannot be used after a certain age. However, manufacturers agree that once a tyre reaches 10 years old it should no longer be used. A number of retailers, black circles included, do not now sell tyres that are 6 years or older.
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