The mythical Jaguar XJ13
Discussion
Also if there are any want to be XJ13 nerds out there, I came across this link yesterday.
http://www.paulskilleterbooks.co.uk/product_info.p...
So that's Christmas sorted, please not interruptions till well into the new year now.
It has supplanted the list of books I'd taken a fancy to at the OxCMC John Watkinson lecture on Thursday night.
http://www.paulskilleterbooks.co.uk/product_info.p...
So that's Christmas sorted, please not interruptions till well into the new year now.
It has supplanted the list of books I'd taken a fancy to at the OxCMC John Watkinson lecture on Thursday night.
lowdrag said:
I needn't go on about this car since I guess we all know about it and it's history - but I will nevertheless! Built by "The Saturday Club", a group of Jaguar engineers who gathered together in their spare time to create , if you like, a Mk 2 D type to reincarnate Jaguar's glorious racing years. Mid-engined, lightweight monocoque chassis, 5 liter quad-cam engine, a veritable tour-de-force of engineering excellence in its day. Of course, regulation changes meant it could never race so it has slumbered quietly in the museum, being used for exhibitions and once in a while doing a demonstration tour of a circuit. It is mythical, and so is its value - it is insured by the museum for $12 million at current exchange rates. I am proud to have driven the original - if only in second gear around the factory!
Step up to the plate one Jürgen Locke from Germany. A 60 year old mechanic and panel beater, he too was one of the many who dreamed, but then he was and is a practical dreamer. He decided to build one himself; no he didn't buy the kit, he really has built one from scratch!
Bravo Jürgen!
I just noticed lowdrag, that is an Audi Quattro transaxle with the rear output shaft removed and blanked off. A very practical idea, as he can always refit it and make it 4 wheel drive!Step up to the plate one Jürgen Locke from Germany. A 60 year old mechanic and panel beater, he too was one of the many who dreamed, but then he was and is a practical dreamer. He decided to build one himself; no he didn't buy the kit, he really has built one from scratch!
Bravo Jürgen!
Edited by lowdrag on Monday 22 March 08:13
Edited by lowdrag on Monday 22 March 08:15
What a tool that would be!!
NevSwales said:
After all, we are ruled by Germans and have even allowed the Scottish to do the same in the past .... some bloke called Stuart I think but history was never my strong point.
Actually, it was James I (and who was also James VI of Scotland) who was the son of Mary Stuart Queen of ScotsI was privileged to be invited to a small gathering at Jaguar Heritage last Friday. The occasion was to mark the launch of Peter Wilson's new XJ13 book. I posted some pics/video here:
http://tinyurl.com/c2bq2lu
Highlight of the day for me was being able to speak to some of the surviving original team who were involved in the project - Norman Dewis, George Buck, Frank Philpott, Jim Eastick, Ron Greves, Mike Kimberley, Roger Shelbourne, Robert Berry, Peter Taylor and Peter Wilson.
I must emphasise that I have absolutely no commercial interest in the book.
http://tinyurl.com/c2bq2lu
Highlight of the day for me was being able to speak to some of the surviving original team who were involved in the project - Norman Dewis, George Buck, Frank Philpott, Jim Eastick, Ron Greves, Mike Kimberley, Roger Shelbourne, Robert Berry, Peter Taylor and Peter Wilson.
I must emphasise that I have absolutely no commercial interest in the book.
I was recently passed a short video taken by the people who printed a small-scale model using the data for my 1966 recreation/facsimile. I thought some of you may be interested and so posted it to YouTube. I personally find this relatively new technology fascinating. I commissioned the 3D model because I am perhaps a little old-fashioned and need to have something I can hold in my hand rather than rely on what I see on a computer screen. I wanted to be certain we had captured the car's details before I said OK to manufacturing the body-buck and various 3D sections. It's all very well being able to rotate a CAD model on a screen but I needed something I could hold in my hand, see how the light catches the curves etc.
Here's the link ....
3D-Printing
By the way, I just noticed the first post in this thread. It is, of course, entirely incorrect to say the XJ13 was, "Built by "The Saturday Club", a group of Jaguar engineers who gathered together in their spare time". The car was actually built in Jaguar's Competitions Department under the leadership of Mike Kimberley (later to become Lotus CEO).
It is also incorrect to say, ... it is insured by the museum for $12 million at current exchange rates ... . The car's Curator tells me it is actually insured for a nominal replacement value. Jaguar Heritage would soon go bust if they paid insurance premiums covering the market value of the many cars in their collection!
Here's the link ....
3D-Printing
By the way, I just noticed the first post in this thread. It is, of course, entirely incorrect to say the XJ13 was, "Built by "The Saturday Club", a group of Jaguar engineers who gathered together in their spare time". The car was actually built in Jaguar's Competitions Department under the leadership of Mike Kimberley (later to become Lotus CEO).
It is also incorrect to say, ... it is insured by the museum for $12 million at current exchange rates ... . The car's Curator tells me it is actually insured for a nominal replacement value. Jaguar Heritage would soon go bust if they paid insurance premiums covering the market value of the many cars in their collection!
Edited by XJ13 on Wednesday 1st August 09:03
Very interesting. I wonder how long it will be before they can just make who cars this way :-)
I saw an article on "The Register" the other day about someone making a critical part of an M16 using a 3D printer.
On your other point, "Nominal replacement value" how do you replace a one off?
I saw an article on "The Register" the other day about someone making a critical part of an M16 using a 3D printer.
On your other point, "Nominal replacement value" how do you replace a one off?
a8hex said:
On your other point, "Nominal replacement value" how do you replace a one off?
Good point. However, if (for example) a Le Mans winning D-Type was insured by Jaguar Heritage for its true market value and its engine went AWOL for whatever reason, no matter how big the insurance payout was you can never regain/rebuild that original piece of history. Jaguar Heritage certainly can't afford the kind of premiums to cover all their cars for their true market value (or so I am led to believe) so they have seemingly taken a pragmatic view and only insure their cars for what it would cost for a total rebuild. Seems eminently sensible to me.Take the XJ13 for example; unless a shipping container with it inside was to disappear overboard half-way across the Atlantic, the possibility is that it would "only" suffer bad damage during one of its many forays, but the remaining pieces could conceivably be reassembled/rebuilt. It therefore makes sense to me to only insure it for whatever it would cost to comprehensively rebuild it.
As an aside, Jaguar Heritage do have a new "backup" in the wings in case a major calamity should befall the XJ13. JD Classics were recently loaned the car by Jaguar Heritage so that they could comprehensively measure/scan it. They have taken detailed measurements of the current rebuilt car (enough to verify a discrepancy of up to 2" right to left) and visitors to JD Classics are in danger of tripping over the full-size buck that now sits in the workshop. I am led to believe the new body will be used to clothe the "Walter Hill" Wingfield car which has a notoriously wrong body shape. OK, it may be mostly steel, is pure "GT40" under the skin, is different dimensionally and has a "bitsa" engine, but at least it will now closely mirror the rebuilt original's outer shape - probably closer than any replica of the rebuilt car to date. JD Classics do turn out some absolutely stunning work and I look forward to see the finished result.
So ... my answer to your question (for what its worth) is, "no - it is not possible to replace a one-off. All you can hope for is enough money and leftover bits to put Humpty back together again".
lowdrag said:
As said, the XJ13 was involved in an horrific accident in 1971 at MIRA when the N/S rear wheel collapsed (not the tyre) with Norman Dewis at the wheel.
Yet another myth to add to the collection of myths/untruths at the start of this thread! The accident was almost certainly caused by a collapsed tyre and NOT a collapsed rear wheel. After the event, there was a cover-up to absolve Dunlop (and Norman) from blame. The true fact is that one of the rear tyres was "plugged" to cure a slow leak before filming. Lofty England gave instructions that "no high speed would be involved" as a result.
On Tuesday 19th January 1971 (the day before filming) the car was taken to MIRA and Phil Weaver warned Norman Dewis of the puncture repair and said it was not suitable for high speeds. Norman was reminded of this again by Peter Jones immediately before filming started on the morning of the 20th. Unfortunately, in the heat of the moment, Norman ignored this advice/instructions with the inevitable consequences. You don't have to take my word for this - try reading Peter Wilson's definitive XJ13 book or speak with Mike Kimberley (XJ13 Project Leader).
By the way, I continue with my personal tribute to the original XJ13 and have posted a short video showing some quad-cam engine "bits and bobs"
Quad-Cam Rebuild - You Tube
Edited by XJ13 on Sunday 17th March 09:04
Edited by XJ13 on Wednesday 20th March 08:22
Hooli said:
NevSwales said:
Yes, it is certainly possible it was changed.
Although I was only the second owner of the car there were signs the body was "restored" (brown quilted vinyl ... luvverly ...) One addition made by the previous owner was a little beautifully-trimmed cubby hole hidden under the passenger seat. When I stripped the car for its first restoration I found it contained a handful of condoms still in their wrappers - presumably 1960's vintage.... do you know of any contraceptelists who may be interested in adding them to their collection?
I bet someone, somewhere does collect them!Although I was only the second owner of the car there were signs the body was "restored" (brown quilted vinyl ... luvverly ...) One addition made by the previous owner was a little beautifully-trimmed cubby hole hidden under the passenger seat. When I stripped the car for its first restoration I found it contained a handful of condoms still in their wrappers - presumably 1960's vintage.... do you know of any contraceptelists who may be interested in adding them to their collection?
XJ13 said:
Jagmanv12 said:
If that is the real one then the photo has been reversed as the real car is rhd.
Look again Jagman - I do admit it can look like lhd sometimes because the sills are so wide but the photo is the right way round. A giveaway is the fact the windscreen wiper is on the rhs.
moreflaps said:
XJ13 said:
Jagmanv12 said:
If that is the real one then the photo has been reversed as the real car is rhd.
Look again Jagman - I do admit it can look like lhd sometimes because the sills are so wide but the photo is the right way round. A giveaway is the fact the windscreen wiper is on the rhs.Jaguar XJ13 - 360-degree View
XJ13 said:
moreflaps said:
XJ13 said:
Jagmanv12 said:
If that is the real one then the photo has been reversed as the real car is rhd.
Look again Jagman - I do admit it can look like lhd sometimes because the sills are so wide but the photo is the right way round. A giveaway is the fact the windscreen wiper is on the rhs.Jaguar XJ13 - 360-degree View
Having sat in the driver's seat at Browns Lane I recall the sills are wide.
XJ13 said:
moreflaps said:
XJ13 said:
Jagmanv12 said:
If that is the real one then the photo has been reversed as the real car is rhd.
Look again Jagman - I do admit it can look like lhd sometimes because the sills are so wide but the photo is the right way round. A giveaway is the fact the windscreen wiper is on the rhs.Jaguar XJ13 - 360-degree View
Cheers
pcvdriver said:
NevSwales said:
After all, we are ruled by Germans and have even allowed the Scottish to do the same in the past .... some bloke called Stuart I think but history was never my strong point.
Actually, it was James I (and who was also James VI of Scotland) who was the son of Mary Stuart Queen of ScotsBack OT, a magnificent effort by Jurgen.
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