XK120 banger racing!

Author
Discussion

guru_1071

2,768 posts

233 months

Saturday 7th January 2012
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williamp said:
if you've not done alreaDY, send a fiver to DVLA vehicle enquirey unit and they'll send you copies of all the old V5's they know (if any).

"...Enquiries by post

You’ll need to fill in a ‘Request for information’ (V888) form if you want information about:
•another vehicle’s keeper details – the fee for this is £2.50
•previous keepers for a vehicle now registered in your name – the fee for this is £5.00
...."
this is a great service, and here is a good tip.

1) send the form and the postal order off

2) wait a month and ring them up, they will be able to then confirm that they have the form and the money and the order is showing as 'live' on their system

3) wait another 1-2 months depending on the age of the vehicle and the qty of paperwork they have - some will be in archives and they have to hunt it down.

this service is great, but dont expect fast results from them, its a great day when the letter finally drops through the door - ive not been disapointed with the information gleaned from the last couple of these ive done, ive been able to contact first owners and get photos etc

JRA

223 posts

153 months

Saturday 7th January 2012
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Hi there

can you advise me as to whether this would be worth trying to find the early history of my Lotus. I brought it back from the states where it had been for at least 30 years. It had the UK plate ROV 511G attached but no UK documents. The original local records have been destroyed so no joy there and when I've phoned DVLA they have nothing on the computer data base. However the date of manufacture of the car was 1956 so the plate might be spurious, but for a fiver I thought it might be worth a go. Do you know if it's just a computer search or does some poor soul have to dredge through old paper records? If so how far back do they have records and how complete are they?

Thanks for your help

Jon Adams

guru_1071

2,768 posts

233 months

Saturday 7th January 2012
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jon

they wouldnt have anything in your instance.

all they have is the stuff that was put on fiche post 77 when the computerised v5 style documents started (between the period of 77 and 83 all cars should have been put onto v5's - its the ones that where already stored in garages / exported etc prior to 83 that will have no computerised trace.

if the rf60 buff style book was handed in at the time, a copy should have been made and it will be included in the stuff the dvla send back.

often the stuff is a poor copy though.

the older stuff involves manual dredging - certainly the last one i had done involved them going though fiches printing the stuff off.


if your car was a 1956 'kit' lotus, it may not have been finished and registered until 1968?


i would think that a club as large and organised as the lotus lot (and with the experience they will have of factory vs kit built cars) will be able to help you to get the car registered as a period car?


Edited by guru_1071 on Saturday 7th January 11:59

williamp

19,213 posts

272 months

Saturday 7th January 2012
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Hi John,

when I did this for my aston (1971) I was told that they computerised in 1984, and many records were lost then. Also, they wereent too bothered about computerizing (sp??) records from written off cars, etc so its very hard to trace histories from cars which dont exist anymore

However, they will give you everything they know about a car which is still known to them. So for a fiver I would say its worth it. They might (should?) have copies of all the old v5's, so you'll know who the old owners were, and if you are really lucky, the colour and mileage at the time of sale

With the Aston, I found out all of the owners until the one before me lived within a few miles of each other in Essex. Sadly none of them replied to my requests for information or photos, but you never know!

JRA

223 posts

153 months

Saturday 7th January 2012
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Thanks for you help

The Lotus is on a period number and road legal, thanks to the help of the Historic Lotus Register, but as with quite a few old sports cars is has lost its original chasis plate and number. The car has been inspected by the HLR and is a genuine 56 Lotus but I was hoping that any old documentation might include the chasis number. The story as to why the plate is newer than the car is that at that time "old" cars being exported to the states had to be road registerd. I'm very doubtfull about this but it's a lead worth checking. I'll send my fiver off to DVLA as a shot in the dark but I'll not get my hopes up.

Thanks again

Jon Adams

williamp

19,213 posts

272 months

Saturday 7th January 2012
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sounds tricky Jon. In order to get the chassis number, you might have to contact the old owners and ask if they have any info. So getting the old V5's would be a good start. Good luck!

guru_1071

2,768 posts

233 months

Saturday 7th January 2012
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jon

if the assumption that the car had to be road registered to be exported to the states, then this would surely suggest that prior to 1968 your car was just a track car and unregistered?

that, or its 'original' chassis number and period plate was used on another uk lotus to avoid purchase tax?

JRA

223 posts

153 months

Saturday 7th January 2012
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Hi there

Unfortunately the chassis plate wasn’t actually attached to the chassis but to the body work just in front of the driver’s side wheel. As the majority of cars were built for competition and possibly crashed the front bodywork and attached plate could have been damaged and repaired. Early on people were not concerned about identity and plates were thrown away. Also it has been documented that previous owners detached chassis plates to keep as mementos. Allegedly there was also a dealer in the sixties who swapped plates from car to car. So unfortunately there are a few genuine cars out there without chassis plates and as with other classics more exist now than ever did in the fifties. Thankfully there are a few dedicated experts who can tell genuine cars and any “barn” find should be checked with them first. I believe my car was exported in the sixties so finding any UK owners will be very difficult. The previous owner had the car for 30 years but couldn’t remember who he bought it from. Thankfully I have documents going back 30 years, before the cars were worth enough to warrant copying.

Thanks

Jon Adams

nicknoo

46 posts

165 months

Monday 9th January 2012
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I would like to cast my opinion on the matter of banger racing (oh no, another opinion you cry!).

I am not trolling here, I rarely post on PH but I read most of the threads. This thread has actually motivated me to the point of posting!

I was involved in banger racing from the early 80’s through to the early 90’s.

During that time I saw a myriad of different cars go through to their final step.

For ‘unlimiteds’ our weapon of choice would be Triumph 2500’s, A99/110’s, MkI Granadas, Jags 420/MkX, P5B’s etc. Cars such as Rover P6’s weren’t any good due to their ‘revolutionary’ collapsible front ends! Again, I’m not trolling but I know for a fact that cars which were too far gone body-wise weren’t the choice material. Generally, cars which needed a bit of mechanical fixing but had structurally sound bodies were the best.

It’s worth noting the comment made about using Priuses, this was the same back in the 80’s with the 1300cc class, using Mk I&II Escorts, Chevettes, Datsun etc. (I remember one race with 5, yes 5 1300 Sport Mk II’s). Imagine the shock/horror of it all now with the prices of Mk I and II’s!!!

When we were racing these cars, nothing was thought of it, they were junkers, no more, no less. I cannot begin to imagine the amount of Farina-bodied cars that were used on the tracks over the years. The same applies to the MkII Granada now; they used to be everywhere, now they are nowhere. frown

Now with the popular advent of the pre-69 and pre-75 classes in banger racing we still see some really rare stuff going through, a real shame but life will go on irrespective.

My damning point? I don’t really have one. I love cars, always have done, always will do. I do my best to save for the future what I own. What people choose to do with theirs is their business, no-one elses.

Banger racing has always been there and will continue to be there – like it or not. The way I look at it now is that the banger boys will always want something different and you can’t stop that. The public will always sell them something ‘special’ as money will always outweigh ‘ethics’. One good thing to come from it though is that banger-boys generally now offer some kind of service where spares are removed from the vehicle and sold back to the classic fraternity. In my day it all went in the scrap skip!!!

My apologies if anyone thinks I’m trolling, it is not my intention to.

Just my 2¢ worth.

Good luck XKMan with the resto by the way.



Andy 308GTB

2,918 posts

220 months

Monday 9th January 2012
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nicknoo said:
...Just my 2¢ worth...
Good post and pretty much how I see it.

When I see a P5B being wheeled out I feel a little sad - not because they are particularly rare but I wish I had the spare time (and money) to maintain/own one.

Bogracer

438 posts

206 months

Tuesday 10th January 2012
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This topic runs deep and creates much gnashing of teeth and wailing.

I am a huge classic car fan and restorer, I have owned and driven all kinds of cars.

Most of the cars banger raced are realistically way way beyond redemption. Ironically a cull of the weak, rotten and broken creates rarity and value, which motivates people to covet and restore the few. I kid you not, a friend of mine brought an Aston Martin DB5 that had been banger raced in the US in the 1970s!

Some of the banger racers are classic enthusiasts themselves, perhaps buying a parts car and then deciding what to do with the remnants crusher or blaze of glory?

The true test of a classic is market desirability and the best and loved get preserved.

XKman

53 posts

148 months

Wednesday 18th January 2012
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Thanks to WiILLIAMP and GURU for their info on DVLA searches. I will follow this up.

esso

1,849 posts

216 months

Thursday 19th January 2012
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The rarest car I have seen banger raced was a Jaguar XJS Eventer,I think there were only 15 made and the guy who raced it was offered a substantial amount of money for the car but still went ahead and raced it!

lowdrag

12,869 posts

212 months

Friday 20th January 2012
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esso said:
The rarest car I have seen banger raced was a Jaguar XJS Eventer,I think there were only 15 made and the guy who raced it was offered a substantial amount of money for the car but still went ahead and raced it!
67 made actually! Still a rare car though. There are photos on the net of it after the race.

mrenaut

41 posts

237 months

Monday 26th August 2013
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Any progress made on this restoration Mike?

Be great to see an update.

XKman

53 posts

148 months

Monday 21st October 2013
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Hi, sorry I havn't updated you on the XK150 restoration but been busy with another project, which is now nearing completion. However, whilst this was being sprayed I did some work on the banger. All the rear end has been removed and scrapped. The tube that connects the two rear chassis legs together was bent in the race, and that has been cut and repaired. I checked the chassis and it is now fine. I have also cut off all the other welded on additions and chucked the fabricated bonnet. The off side front wing was rammed in the banger race and that has also been cut out and a full length repair panel purchased, in addition to a complete new rear end, sills, new headlamp pods, bonnet support bridge and a number of other small repair panels. The roof had a number of large holes in it where they had attached the roll-cage and roof mounted number and although it had been welded back on, with strenghtening bars, it wasn't very accurately done and the screens would not have fitted. By chance I was at an auction in Lincolnshire a few months ago and managed to buy a replacement! I have also purchased second hand wire wheel hubs and it now sits on wire wheels. I got £20 for the alloys they had fitted for the race.
I have also sourced lots of other items and have virtually everything I need to restore the car including original window frames, a set of instruments from the US and a pair of bucket seats.
The current project should be finished by July next year and then I will get on with the 150. As there is no trim or bumpers and bearing in mind it's provenance, I am going to turn it into a road taxed track day car. When there is more to report I will let you know. In addition to the purchase price I have already spent getting on for £8k on parts.

Andy 308GTB

2,918 posts

220 months

Tuesday 22nd October 2013
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Thanks for the update, keep them coming. This was always an interesting thread.

Andy 308GTB

2,918 posts

220 months

Tuesday 22nd October 2013
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nicknoo said:
When we were racing these cars, nothing was thought of it, they were junkers, no more, no less. I cannot begin to imagine the amount of Farina-bodied cars that were used on the tracks over the years. The same applies to the MkII Granada now; they used to be everywhere, now they are nowhere. frown
Just re-read this post and it made me chuckle...

Last weekend at the Arena Essex they had a Granada MKI and MKII only meeting, over 230 cars were entered. An enormous crowd turned up and it was hailed as one of the best meetings in 25 years!
I was under the weather and didn't get down there but the breakdown of cars was posted on a forum as:

232 cars,
212 fresh
20 used

46 MkI
- 26 saloons (one being a 2-door)
- 3 estates (one being a Consul)
- 9 coupes
- 1 cokebottle coupe
- 2 limos.
Plus 5 used - 3 saloons (one a 2-door) and 2 coupes

186 MkII
- 131 saloons (one a 2-door)
- 34 estates
- 2 windsors
- 2 hearses
- 1 limo
- 1 minster estate.
Plus 15 used - 9 saloons and 6 estates


So there are probably a few still out there, even after this meeting...

a8hex

5,829 posts

222 months

Tuesday 22nd October 2013
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Thanks for the update XKMan,
Tis great to think the car will be heading back onto the road.

srob

11,566 posts

237 months

Tuesday 22nd October 2013
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a8hex said:
Thanks for the update XKMan,
Tis great to think the car will be heading back onto the road.
This.

Well done that man, I'm sure the car will be a beaut and it'll always have that fascinating story. Be sure to keep it well documented for future generations of enthusiasts.

Personally i'd be tempted to leave a 'keepsake' from it's banger racing past. Maybe an area of unseen (usually) paintwork or something - I'm a real believer of vehicles wearing their history with pride, like a war medal smile