Classics left to die/rotting pics
Discussion
We had no influence on the design whatsoever. We were just called in to supply glass to the match the holes in the car, usually to metal templates provided.
Unfortunately many converters in the 80s and 90s seemed to think that it was a matter of a couple of days to produce double curvature glass to pattern. After all, they could do it with steel and aluminium, so why was glass so different? On occasion the glass was the last thing to be installed before the car was delivered to a showroom in London, the customer or the port for shipping abroad.
The majority of these builders who made one offs or small runs of converted vehicles have now disappeared.
Unfortunately many converters in the 80s and 90s seemed to think that it was a matter of a couple of days to produce double curvature glass to pattern. After all, they could do it with steel and aluminium, so why was glass so different? On occasion the glass was the last thing to be installed before the car was delivered to a showroom in London, the customer or the port for shipping abroad.
The majority of these builders who made one offs or small runs of converted vehicles have now disappeared.
530dTPhil said:
We had no influence on the design whatsoever. We were just called in to supply glass to the match the holes in the car, usually to metal templates provided.
Unfortunately many converters in the 80s and 90s seemed to think that it was a matter of a couple of days to produce double curvature glass to pattern. After all, they could do it with steel and aluminium, so why was glass so different? On occasion the glass was the last thing to be installed before the car was delivered to a showroom in London, the customer or the port for shipping abroad.
The majority of these builders who made one offs or small runs of converted vehicles have now disappeared.
Out of interest how is the curved glass produced? I work in glass for the construction industry, we toughen in-house and get some unique requests but producing one off curved safety glass, (assuming it was safety glass lami or toughened) must be a nightmare?Unfortunately many converters in the 80s and 90s seemed to think that it was a matter of a couple of days to produce double curvature glass to pattern. After all, they could do it with steel and aluminium, so why was glass so different? On occasion the glass was the last thing to be installed before the car was delivered to a showroom in London, the customer or the port for shipping abroad.
The majority of these builders who made one offs or small runs of converted vehicles have now disappeared.
The fixed quarters on the XJS were laminated glass with single curvature so involved tooling costs per side. Obviously the production of the tooling against metal templates can lead to some discrepancies but generally we got it right first time. The other difficulty that often was not appreciated by the vehicle converters was that it was virtually impossible to match the toughened glass green tint (usually Triplex Sundym on Jaguars and Range Rovers0 with the green tint of a piece of laminated glass.
In the last few years it has been possible to get short runs of single curvature toughened glass, as low as sixteen of each piece, done by one factory in Europe. This tends to be more reliable than using laminated and, of course, can be used for drop glasses whereas laminated glass has its limitations for this purpose.
Double curvature toughened glass is almost impossible to produce in short runs. The majority of double curvature toughened for OE manufacture and spares is produced in runs of 10,000 pieces or more. The tooling is very expensive and setting up for production can take a day. £60K tooling for one piece is typical.
Unfortunately, the converters often do not think about the glass until too late in the process and then find that they cannot economically do what they need to meet the original design.
In the last few years it has been possible to get short runs of single curvature toughened glass, as low as sixteen of each piece, done by one factory in Europe. This tends to be more reliable than using laminated and, of course, can be used for drop glasses whereas laminated glass has its limitations for this purpose.
Double curvature toughened glass is almost impossible to produce in short runs. The majority of double curvature toughened for OE manufacture and spares is produced in runs of 10,000 pieces or more. The tooling is very expensive and setting up for production can take a day. £60K tooling for one piece is typical.
Unfortunately, the converters often do not think about the glass until too late in the process and then find that they cannot economically do what they need to meet the original design.
530dTPhil said:
Unfortunately, the converters often do not think about the glass until too late in the process and then find that they cannot economically do what they need to meet the original design.
Thanks for that Phil, very interesting, I specialise in historic glazing upgrades and we have to supplied curved double glazed sealed units using older glass on the outer pane so know how tricky it can be even when not toughened. It would seem glass is always the last thought whatever industry it is used in, suprising considering how important it is!The added complication with automotive is finding factories that can mark to BS857 as a minimum rather than BS6206 for household. You would be amazed at the number of amateur motorhome and minibus conversions that we see with no markings or BS6206 on the glass.
Many years ago, I cam across someone offering side window conversions on vans using household glass!
Many years ago, I cam across someone offering side window conversions on vans using household glass!
urquattro said:
4rephill said:
Having done a quick Google image search, I concur wholeheartedly! 
too good to scrap or break though, there shall be a solution to sort it out.Having done the Google search I noted that other XJS' had been extended but had kept the rear buttresses which looks a lot better and more in keeping with the original design.
For whatever reason, someone "back in the day" thought that this particular XJS would look better without the buttresses and so it makes the car even more unique, and for that alone it deserves to remain as it is.
4rephill said:
Considering exactly what it is, unattractive or not it should really remain as it is IMO.
Having done the Google search I noted that other XJS' had been extended but had kept the rear buttresses which looks a lot better and more in keeping with the original design.
For whatever reason, someone "back in the day" thought that this particular XJS would look better without the buttresses and so it makes the car even more unique, and for that alone it deserves to remain as it is.
Having seen the pics a few days ago I sort of agreed it ugly, but its grown on me its a bit Buick-ish but I wouldn't say its ugly, If there was documentation to show it isn't just another hack job[not saying it is] would it not be a bit more ''special''?
Having done the Google search I noted that other XJS' had been extended but had kept the rear buttresses which looks a lot better and more in keeping with the original design.
For whatever reason, someone "back in the day" thought that this particular XJS would look better without the buttresses and so it makes the car even more unique, and for that alone it deserves to remain as it is.
Having seen the pics a few days ago I sort of agreed it ugly, but its grown on me its a bit Buick-ish but I wouldn't say its ugly, If there was documentation to show it isn't just another hack job[not saying it is] would it not be a bit more ''special''?
BigBo said:
4rephill said:
Considering exactly what it is, unattractive or not it should really remain as it is IMO.
Having done the Google search I noted that other XJS' had been extended but had kept the rear buttresses which looks a lot better and more in keeping with the original design.
For whatever reason, someone "back in the day" thought that this particular XJS would look better without the buttresses and so it makes the car even more unique, and for that alone it deserves to remain as it is.
Having seen the pics a few days ago I sort of agreed it ugly, but its grown on me its a bit Buick-ish but I wouldn't say its ugly, If there was documentation to show it isn't just another hack job[not saying it is] would it not be a bit more ''special''? Having done the Google search I noted that other XJS' had been extended but had kept the rear buttresses which looks a lot better and more in keeping with the original design.
For whatever reason, someone "back in the day" thought that this particular XJS would look better without the buttresses and so it makes the car even more unique, and for that alone it deserves to remain as it is.
4rephill said:
Considering exactly what it is, unattractive or not it should really remain as it is IMO.
Having done the Google search I noted that other XJS' had been extended but had kept the rear buttresses which looks a lot better and more in keeping with the original design.
For whatever reason, someone "back in the day" thought that this particular XJS would look better without the buttresses and so it makes the car even more unique, and for that alone it deserves to remain as it is.
Agreed, I'd keep as is. Having done the Google search I noted that other XJS' had been extended but had kept the rear buttresses which looks a lot better and more in keeping with the original design.
For whatever reason, someone "back in the day" thought that this particular XJS would look better without the buttresses and so it makes the car even more unique, and for that alone it deserves to remain as it is.
Ur, if you get bogged down with other projects, please let me know - I'd be interested in taking it on if and when I finish the Lynx properly.
DickyC said:
BigBo said:
4rephill said:
Considering exactly what it is, unattractive or not it should really remain as it is IMO.
Having done the Google search I noted that other XJS' had been extended but had kept the rear buttresses which looks a lot better and more in keeping with the original design.
For whatever reason, someone "back in the day" thought that this particular XJS would look better without the buttresses and so it makes the car even more unique, and for that alone it deserves to remain as it is.
Having seen the pics a few days ago I sort of agreed it ugly, but its grown on me its a bit Buick-ish but I wouldn't say its ugly, If there was documentation to show it isn't just another hack job[not saying it is] would it not be a bit more ''special''? Having done the Google search I noted that other XJS' had been extended but had kept the rear buttresses which looks a lot better and more in keeping with the original design.
For whatever reason, someone "back in the day" thought that this particular XJS would look better without the buttresses and so it makes the car even more unique, and for that alone it deserves to remain as it is.
The Glenfrolme Special XJS posted has a longer roof, a more upright rear window and a vinyl roof that looks slightly too bulky for the car. This gives the car a far less elegant look than Daimler's effort.
As I say though, because of the history of the car and what it is, it deserves to be restored just as it is, rather than becoming just another "run of the mill" XJS. It's quirkiness is exactly what makes it special.
Justayellowbadge said:
Agreed, I'd keep as is.
Ur, if you get bogged down with other projects, please let me know - I'd be interested in taking it on if and when I finish the Lynx properly.
Hi JYB, thanks for the interest, it is too good to see scrapped for the gearbox etc and only 55k from new.Ur, if you get bogged down with other projects, please let me know - I'd be interested in taking it on if and when I finish the Lynx properly.
I think it was made by Gf for Harrods or the boss there.
I tried to track down the silver version with the buttresses retained but it seemed to vanish in 2000, allegedly built for a London Bank as a special as well. I believe only two XJS were done by them but lots of MB, Range Rovers and others for the middle east market before they went pop in the end.
You are welcome to to make contact as the car is safely stored and nothing bad will happen, no problem is the others I also have, however this was bought to stop it being broken for the manual g/b, axle etc etc.
cheers.
urquattro said:
I tried to track down the silver version with the buttresses retained but it seemed to vanish in 2000
There was a stretch XJS with buttresses in the Surbiton area in the 80s .I worked in Kingston from 79-95 and saw it around regularly.
It was either silver or a very pale blue metallic.
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