Classics left to die/rotting pics
Discussion
sun.and.rain said:
Absolutely. If this had been a Capri 3.0S in this original condition with low miles and history it would raise a lot of interest. A bit irrelevant I know but in the TR7 scene this is a great find for the right enthusiastic restorer. It doesn't look like a major resto and will make a worthwhile project.
I agree 
the states love em 
and the shape looks more pleasing now than it did back then 
RoverP6B said:
Which of my cars is/was a heap of junk, in your opinion?
I called the TR7 a heap of junk because it was. Live axle rear (where the earlier TRs, and the Dolomite, had a superb fully independent rear axle), truly appalling build quality, engines missing vital oil-ways (causing frequent engine failures - my best man, who had a Dolomite with the same engine, went through three engines in the one-year warranty period), steering wheel often not properly fastened to the column (another friend had a scary experience where his steering wheel came off completely on a motorway - thankfully, it went back on with the same ease with which it had come off), oh, and did I mention the rampant rust? The Harris Mann styling was a disaster too - hence the well known comment, made at the 1975 Geneva Motor Show by Giorgetto Giugiaro, after looking at one side of the TR7, then the other: "My God! They've done it to the other side as well!".
My P6 wasn't perfect, it too was built under British Leyland, but there wasn't a Leyland logo on the car, and apart from the initially slow-spreading rust, it never suffered from any major build quality issues. BL went downhill very rapidly in the mid to late 1970s. A combination of catastrophic mismanagement, factory refits creating problems where none previously existed, and rampantly mutinous trade unions, all contributed to the destruction of the leviathan.
Absolute, complete bI called the TR7 a heap of junk because it was. Live axle rear (where the earlier TRs, and the Dolomite, had a superb fully independent rear axle), truly appalling build quality, engines missing vital oil-ways (causing frequent engine failures - my best man, who had a Dolomite with the same engine, went through three engines in the one-year warranty period), steering wheel often not properly fastened to the column (another friend had a scary experience where his steering wheel came off completely on a motorway - thankfully, it went back on with the same ease with which it had come off), oh, and did I mention the rampant rust? The Harris Mann styling was a disaster too - hence the well known comment, made at the 1975 Geneva Motor Show by Giorgetto Giugiaro, after looking at one side of the TR7, then the other: "My God! They've done it to the other side as well!".
My P6 wasn't perfect, it too was built under British Leyland, but there wasn't a Leyland logo on the car, and apart from the initially slow-spreading rust, it never suffered from any major build quality issues. BL went downhill very rapidly in the mid to late 1970s. A combination of catastrophic mismanagement, factory refits creating problems where none previously existed, and rampantly mutinous trade unions, all contributed to the destruction of the leviathan.
ks. Take the specs off.The TR5 and 6 were an object lesson on how NOT to do IRS. It was utter s
t, just stupefyingly awful. Have you ever driven one of these stheaps?You'll be telling me the MGC was actually a very good and misunderstood car next.
The Dolomite had a live rear axle. So did the RS Escorts, all of which were very crisp handling cars.
TR7's were badly made. And?
P6 quality was as bad as anything else BL churned out. It was all s
t compared to proper cars (Toyota, Datsun, BMW, Merc etc). They rotted like a bd and, the more BL took out, the worse they got. I have a 1973 AA Drive magazine with an article about lemons. The worst car? A Rover 3500S that had 3 new engines under warranty, a gearbox and christ knows what else. It was a complete disaster from start too finish. Second was a Stag, third was an Allegro.Leyland stuff was all f
king rubbish back then. So was Ford and Vauxhall junk. But, 40 years on, all old cars are crap. Oil leaks, breakdowns etc are all part of it no matter what badge it has. What matters now is:a) does it look cool and interesting?
b) see above.
iSore said:
Absolute, complete bks. Take the specs off.
The TR5 and 6 were an object lesson on how NOT to do IRS. It was utter st, just stupefyingly awful. Have you ever driven one of these stheaps?
You'll be telling me the MGC was actually a very good and misunderstood car next.
The Dolomite had a live rear axle. So did the RS Escorts, all of which were very crisp handling cars.
TR7's were badly made. And?
P6 quality was as bad as anything else BL churned out. It was all st compared to proper cars (Toyota, Datsun, BMW, Merc etc). They rotted like a bd and, the more BL took out, the worse they got. I have a 1973 AA Drive magazine with an article about lemons. The worst car? A Rover 3500S that had 3 new engines under warranty, a gearbox and christ knows what else. It was a complete disaster from start too finish. Second was a Stag, third was an Allegro.
Leyland stuff was all fking rubbish back then. So was Ford and Vauxhall junk. But, 40 years on, all old cars are crap. Oil leaks, breakdowns etc are all part of it no matter what badge it has. What matters now is:
a) does it look cool and interesting?
b) see above.
I did drive some of the semi-trailing-arm Triumphs. They were all right. 2000 lacked steering feel and weight. Thought the Dolly Sprint had IRS? The Triumphs that had bad IRS were the Herald/Vitesse/Spitfire/GT6 - swing axles, made for vicious oversteer. I presume you weren't around at the time, because I can tell you that the very worst cars around for rust in those days were Datsuns. BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and Mitsubishi (pretty much as bad as Datsun) all rusted too. The P6 wasn't too bad until I stuck mine in a damp lockup which then leaked like hell. The 3500S had one mechanical weak point - the gearbox wasn't really up to the V8's torque, and I broke a layshaft on reverse on mine. However, I sourced a NOS 'box for the cost of postage, fitted it and never had any further problems. I drove that car in all weathers, day in, day out, doing 90-odd thousand miles over eight and a half years (spring '84 to back end of '92), and it never let me down. Not ONCE did it EVER leave me at the roadside awaiting a mechanic (or trying to fix it myself) - it always reached the destination and brought me back home without a hiccup. The drivetrain (original 1973 engine and all) lives on in a restoration project. Having been left for 16 years, I went to it, put a fresh battery in and it fired up first time, ran sweet as a nut. Incidentally, this week's Practical Classics contains an interesting article from EVO's John Simister (also printed in Autocar back in March) about taking his 1964 P6 2000 to this year's European Car of the Year, getting some of the other judges from several countries to drive it. They observed with some regret that it was in many aspects better than the modern cars present - singling out its steering feel, ride quality, comfortable seats, gearchange, brakes, handling, turning circle and styling for particular praise. http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/rover-2...ks. Take the specs off.The TR5 and 6 were an object lesson on how NOT to do IRS. It was utter s
t, just stupefyingly awful. Have you ever driven one of these stheaps?You'll be telling me the MGC was actually a very good and misunderstood car next.
The Dolomite had a live rear axle. So did the RS Escorts, all of which were very crisp handling cars.
TR7's were badly made. And?
P6 quality was as bad as anything else BL churned out. It was all s
t compared to proper cars (Toyota, Datsun, BMW, Merc etc). They rotted like a bd and, the more BL took out, the worse they got. I have a 1973 AA Drive magazine with an article about lemons. The worst car? A Rover 3500S that had 3 new engines under warranty, a gearbox and christ knows what else. It was a complete disaster from start too finish. Second was a Stag, third was an Allegro.Leyland stuff was all f
king rubbish back then. So was Ford and Vauxhall junk. But, 40 years on, all old cars are crap. Oil leaks, breakdowns etc are all part of it no matter what badge it has. What matters now is:a) does it look cool and interesting?
b) see above.
Sure, there were crap cars in that time. I had two truly dreadful Fords, and drove my father's, which if anything was even worse. The ex-BMC side of Leyland was also turning out some appalling crap, and the Stag, though a nice car once properly sorted (as reflected by strong values for restored examples today - I realised something was up when, back in 2008, I saw one that had just been put through a big restoration go for £25k on eBay, and you'll pay more than that now for a similarly pristine example), was very badly screwed together - and the timing chain was prone to stretching. It sounded good, though - the Rover and Ford engine conversions are now being undone! The Dolomite - well, Canley just wasn't bothering to drill all the oilways in the innovative slant-four... the TR7 was pretty much the last straw, the final indignity being the Acclaim (Japanese design, BL build quality - who thought that was a good idea? The British equivalent of the Alfa Romeo Arna!)... then the second-generation Honda Ballade, the first having killed Triumph once and for all, also hammered the first nail into Rover's coffin, followed by the awful 800 (especially with the woefully unreliable 2.5 litre Honda V6).
As for the MGC, the basic concept was all right, the problem was that boat-anchor C-series engine... if only BMH (as it then was) had used the Jaguar 2.4 litre XK instead... it would have made the MGC a much better car while maintaining sufficient headroom between the MGC and the E-type.
Edited by RoverP6B on Saturday 17th October 07:41
...and then sometimes BL turned out the odd miracle.
My Stag is 41 years old, and is original. Yes, some bits have been welded, some bits have been replaced, but she's not been apart and been the subject of a nut and bolt restoration. She also has her original engine, which I've just had re-built - purely because it was burning a bit of oil, and on her 40th birthday, she deserved it.
My Stag is 41 years old, and is original. Yes, some bits have been welded, some bits have been replaced, but she's not been apart and been the subject of a nut and bolt restoration. She also has her original engine, which I've just had re-built - purely because it was burning a bit of oil, and on her 40th birthday, she deserved it.
Your Stag is doing well to be unrestored at 41 years old, but to be truthful the Stag was a phenomanal car let down by niggling problems which should have all been sorted out by research and development long before regular production started, unfortunately BL was in such a financial state at the time that there was no budget for development.
Going on to the rust problem back in the seventies no manaufactures had cured corrosion problems, Ford Escorts which now sell for silly money rotted prodigiously.
Going on to the rust problem back in the seventies no manaufactures had cured corrosion problems, Ford Escorts which now sell for silly money rotted prodigiously.
imagineifyeswill said:
Your Stag is doing well to be unrestored at 41 years old, but to be truthful the Stag was a phenomanal car let down by niggling problems which should have all been sorted out by research and development long before regular production started, unfortunately BL was in such a financial state at the time that there was no budget for development.
Going on to the rust problem back in the seventies no manaufactures had cured corrosion problems, Ford Escorts which now sell for silly money rotted prodigiously.
Seconded Going on to the rust problem back in the seventies no manaufactures had cured corrosion problems, Ford Escorts which now sell for silly money rotted prodigiously.
I had a lovely Stag in the late 80's and still have fond memories lovely cruiser/tourer but better as an auto IMO mine is still on the road 
I was in my 20's and it did wonders with the ladies 
it really did 
530dTPhil said:
Well, it's certainly a classic that's been left to die and rot, but the seller is being a little overoptimistic with the starting price. I think that it's likely to disintegrate even if it could be moved.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1963-Original-Ford-Consu...
The seller's optimism seems to have disappeared; the car is now back on with a single bid at the starting price of £175.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1963-Original-Ford-Consu...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1963-Original-Ford-Consu...
The problem with the Stag and Dolomite Sprint was that BL were not capable of building them to the correct standard -= they just couldn't do it. Or anything else for that matter. With BL it seemed that the more expensive the car, the worse the build quality. So Allegros seemed to plod on forever and not rust much but Jags and SD1's just fell to bits. E28 BMW's and W123 Mercs didn't which I guess is why both companies are thriving today albeit living on yesterdays glories. These days they're no better than Fords.
Datsuns were indeed awful for rust. I recall seeing a P registered 120Y Sunny in a breakers in 1982 with the wings held on with black gaffer tape. But I bet it started and ran like a watch.
When I think back to my youth, I recall scrapyards full of stuff like Mark II Jaguars, Mark 10's, neolithic Minis, 2 door Cortinas and stuff that's worth a fortune now. Escorts were still too valuable to be in there! In one month (in 1979) there was a BMW 1600 (2002 shape), Riley Pathfinder and a rotten Chrysler 180 that was only 6-7 years old. If only there were camera phones back then.
Datsuns were indeed awful for rust. I recall seeing a P registered 120Y Sunny in a breakers in 1982 with the wings held on with black gaffer tape. But I bet it started and ran like a watch.
When I think back to my youth, I recall scrapyards full of stuff like Mark II Jaguars, Mark 10's, neolithic Minis, 2 door Cortinas and stuff that's worth a fortune now. Escorts were still too valuable to be in there! In one month (in 1979) there was a BMW 1600 (2002 shape), Riley Pathfinder and a rotten Chrysler 180 that was only 6-7 years old. If only there were camera phones back then.
iSore said:
The problem with the Stag and Dolomite Sprint was that BL were not capable of building them to the correct standard -= they just couldn't do it. Or anything else for that matter. With BL it seemed that the more expensive the car, the worse the build quality. So Allegros seemed to plod on forever and not rust much but Jags and SD1's just fell to bits. E28 BMW's and W123 Mercs didn't which I guess is why both companies are thriving today albeit living on yesterdays glories. These days they're no better than Fords.
Datsuns were indeed awful for rust. I recall seeing a P registered 120Y Sunny in a breakers in 1982 with the wings held on with black gaffer tape. But I bet it started and ran like a watch.
When I think back to my youth, I recall scrapyards full of stuff like Mark II Jaguars, Mark 10's, neolithic Minis, 2 door Cortinas and stuff that's worth a fortune now. Escorts were still too valuable to be in there! In one month (in 1979) there was a BMW 1600 (2002 shape), Riley Pathfinder and a rotten Chrysler 180 that was only 6-7 years old. If only there were camera phones back then.
These are from the first Sweeney spin off film, shot in '76 - some of the cars are only a few years old...Datsuns were indeed awful for rust. I recall seeing a P registered 120Y Sunny in a breakers in 1982 with the wings held on with black gaffer tape. But I bet it started and ran like a watch.
When I think back to my youth, I recall scrapyards full of stuff like Mark II Jaguars, Mark 10's, neolithic Minis, 2 door Cortinas and stuff that's worth a fortune now. Escorts were still too valuable to be in there! In one month (in 1979) there was a BMW 1600 (2002 shape), Riley Pathfinder and a rotten Chrysler 180 that was only 6-7 years old. If only there were camera phones back then.
iSore said:
Absolute, complete bks. Take the specs off.
The TR5 and 6 were an object lesson on how NOT to do IRS. It was utter st, just stupefyingly awful. Have you ever driven one of these stheaps?
That's a bit strong, did one run over your cat?ks. Take the specs off.The TR5 and 6 were an object lesson on how NOT to do IRS. It was utter s
t, just stupefyingly awful. Have you ever driven one of these stheaps?The IRS suffered from not having enough space to work properly, and having the driveshaft splines lock up, but even now can be made to work pretty well with few mods. If you read the "in period" reviews the TR5 and 6 compared well even against cars like the Elan. Different tools for different jobs ultimately, but the TRs weren't really slated until the '70s when they were certainly completely obsolete.
On the other hand, I suspect there are lot more of them about now than the cars that came later, so that big heavy chassis ultimately paid off.
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