Classics left to die/rotting pics
Discussion
RoverP6B said:
E24man said:
Oooof. That would be a hefty and interesting resurrection.
I'd reuse the engine/drivetrain in something interesting and scrap the rest of that abomination, penned by William Towns, the second-worst designer in British automotive history (the worst, of course, being Harris Mann).Towns did the DBS, Rover BRM Gas Turbine & Jensen Healey. I never liked the AM Lagonda but quite a few do!
RoverP6B said:
I'd reuse the engine/drivetrain in something interesting and scrap the rest of that abomination, penned by William Towns, the second-worst designer in British automotive history (the worst, of course, being Harris Mann).
On what basis do you damn those designers? IMO they both designed cars which fulfilled the brief well. The Lagonda was designed to appeal to wealthy arabs, who bought it in considerable numbers (by the AML standards of the time), and the TR7 was designed around archaic engineering and US legislation (which eventually failed to materialise). The TR7, when it eventually became convertible and got a decent engine is IMO a nice looking car. The TR7 was the best-selling TR of any type.You might not like what they drew, but that doesn't make them bad designers.
(disgruntled designer speaking here obviously
)If you look Harris Mann's actual designs they're very good, however it's once the engineers have got their hands on them that they get lost in translation. The designs for the AllAggro weren't that bad, but once the engineers started altering them to make space for tall engines etc they became a lot lot worse.
Likewise I never understood what it was about BL that they could have taken designs like the Allegro and Princess and made them look 10 times worse than the equivalent but much more elegant Renault 14 and 20/30?
Likewise I never understood what it was about BL that they could have taken designs like the Allegro and Princess and made them look 10 times worse than the equivalent but much more elegant Renault 14 and 20/30?
Every single design Harris Mann penned (AllAggro, Princess, TR7, Metro, Maestro, as well as contributions to the Scrote, Marina and Crapi) was a disaster from start to finish. The TR7 was easily the ugliest two-seat production roadster ever, beaten only by Towns' one-off Guyson E12, cereal-box rebody of a crashed V12 E-type, which actually used glassfibre panels screwed into the stock bodywork... seen here at Goodwood Festival of Speed in 2009...
...the V12 E-type isn't the prettiest, but it's still a million times better than this, and deserves restoration to original condition...
The MG Z-series were simply awful, redeemed and condemned simultaneously by the fact that they were only half-arsed Halfords-style chav-ups of some reasonably pretty designs (particularly the great Peter Stevens' 75). I wouldn't say no to a ZT, particularly one of the V8 variety, but I'd be after a subdued Rover paintjob and the requisite body/interior parts to make it into a 75... probably still cheaper than a real 75 V8, from what I've seen of those - very rare and pretty expensive now!
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't AML lose money on every Lagonda they made, and that even before the electrical woes caught up with them? I seem to remember they didn't make anything like as many as they'd planned to.
Having bashed Towns, I will say that the Rover-BRM gas turbine Le Mans prototype (based on a BRM F1 chassis which Richie Ginther had crashed), which he worked on under David Bache, was the absolute dog's b
ks.
...the V12 E-type isn't the prettiest, but it's still a million times better than this, and deserves restoration to original condition...
The MG Z-series were simply awful, redeemed and condemned simultaneously by the fact that they were only half-arsed Halfords-style chav-ups of some reasonably pretty designs (particularly the great Peter Stevens' 75). I wouldn't say no to a ZT, particularly one of the V8 variety, but I'd be after a subdued Rover paintjob and the requisite body/interior parts to make it into a 75... probably still cheaper than a real 75 V8, from what I've seen of those - very rare and pretty expensive now!
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't AML lose money on every Lagonda they made, and that even before the electrical woes caught up with them? I seem to remember they didn't make anything like as many as they'd planned to.
Having bashed Towns, I will say that the Rover-BRM gas turbine Le Mans prototype (based on a BRM F1 chassis which Richie Ginther had crashed), which he worked on under David Bache, was the absolute dog's b
ks.RoverP6B said:
Every single design Harris Mann penned (AllAggro, Princess, TR7, Metro, Maestro, as well as contributions to the Scrote, Marina and Crapi) was a disaster from start to finish. The TR7 was easily the ugliest two-seat production roadster ever, beaten only by Towns' one-off Guyson E12, cereal-box rebody of a crashed V12 E-type, which actually used glassfibre panels screwed into the stock bodywork... seen here at Goodwood Festival of Speed in 2009...
...the V12 E-type isn't the prettiest, but it's still a million times better than this, and deserves restoration to original condition...
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't AML lose money on every Lagonda they made, and that even before the electrical woes caught up with them? I seem to remember they didn't make anything like as many as they'd planned to.
Having bashed Towns, I will say that the Rover-BRM gas turbine Le Mans prototype (based on a BRM F1 chassis which Richie Ginther had crashed), which he worked on under David Bache, was the absolute dog's bks.
I like the cut of your jib sir. You share a similar contempt of UK manufacturing to myself. I worked with a guy who bought a brand new TR7 back in the late seventies and his daily brewkdowns on the way to work and subsequent poor after sales service cemented my hatred of British tat at the time. He bought a £100 Beetle at the time to get to work in and hakled it as far superior to the s...the V12 E-type isn't the prettiest, but it's still a million times better than this, and deserves restoration to original condition...
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't AML lose money on every Lagonda they made, and that even before the electrical woes caught up with them? I seem to remember they didn't make anything like as many as they'd planned to.
Having bashed Towns, I will say that the Rover-BRM gas turbine Le Mans prototype (based on a BRM F1 chassis which Richie Ginther had crashed), which he worked on under David Bache, was the absolute dog's b
ks.tty car that stayed in the garage at homeRoverP6B said:
Every single design Harris Mann penned (AllAggro, Princess, TR7, Metro, Maestro, as well as contributions to the Scrote, Marina and Crapi) was a disaster from start to finish. The TR7 was easily the ugliest two-seat production roadster ever, beaten only by Towns' one-off Guyson E12, cereal-box rebody of a crashed V12 E-type, which actually used glassfibre panels screwed into the stock bodywork... seen here at Goodwood Festival of Speed in 2009...
...the V12 E-type isn't the prettiest, but it's still a million times better than this, and deserves restoration to original condition...
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't AML lose money on every Lagonda they made, and that even before the electrical woes caught up with them? I seem to remember they didn't make anything like as many as they'd planned to.
Having bashed Towns, I will say that the Rover-BRM gas turbine Le Mans prototype (based on a BRM F1 chassis which Richie Ginther had crashed), which he worked on under David Bache, was the absolute dog's bks.
I like the cut of your jib sir. You share a similar contempt of UK manufacturing to myself. I worked with a guy who bought a brand new TR7 back in the late seventies and his daily brewkdowns on the way to work and subsequent poor after sales service cemented my hatred of British tat at the time. He bought a £100 Beetle at the time to get to work in and hakled it as far superior to the s...the V12 E-type isn't the prettiest, but it's still a million times better than this, and deserves restoration to original condition...
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't AML lose money on every Lagonda they made, and that even before the electrical woes caught up with them? I seem to remember they didn't make anything like as many as they'd planned to.
Having bashed Towns, I will say that the Rover-BRM gas turbine Le Mans prototype (based on a BRM F1 chassis which Richie Ginther had crashed), which he worked on under David Bache, was the absolute dog's b
ks.tty car that stayed in the garage at homethree five five said:
I like the cut of your jib sir. You share a similar contempt of UK manufacturing to myself. I worked with a guy who bought a brand new TR7 back in the late seventies and his daily brewkdowns on the way to work and subsequent poor after sales service cemented my hatred of British tat at the time. He bought a £100 Beetle at the time to get to work in and hakled it as far superior to the stty car that stayed in the garage at home
Au contraire, I have a great affection for British manufacturing and engineering. My own turd-brown British Leyland product remains one of the best cars I've ever had (1973 Rover P6 3500S). Drove magnificently, was very well-built and never, ever let me down. Rust got it in the end, but what German car of that era has survived that kind of daily all-weather use without major restoration? The Beetle was also hugely overrated IMO (even without Nazi fraud associations) and very prone to crank-case cracking. The Morris Minor was vastly superior IMO.tty car that stayed in the garage at homethree five five said:
Sometimes you know they have gone just that bit to far...
Spotted in Germany 2013
I dunno, the body's probably had it but the chassis and drivetrain might be restorable! Whatever it is, you can also bet that all of it can be bought off the shelf or fabricated to order by small British businesses.Spotted in Germany 2013
v15ben said:
Not sure these count as classic yet, but a nice older Merc languishing under some trees near me.
W124s of all kinds, even E220 estates, count as classics in my book. Two-door six-cylinders, DEFINITELY! Also, I bet that's just some new fuel and brake lines, a fresh battery and, at worst, a new wiring loom, plus a damn good wash, away from being a decent runner. Oh, and there's also the usual W124 front wing rot to look for (replacements are still available).I actually wonder how many cars could be saved from otherwise certain doom if they were actually stolen for restoration? Not that I am condoning crime, but I've known so many cases of "I'll get round to restoring it one day" (and I've been That Guy myself, holding onto my P6 sixteen years longer than I should have done, resulting in that car never seeing the road again)... if someone had nicked my P6 at some point in the mid 90s before the rot really took hold, restored it thoroughly then came to me to admit what they'd done, and were otherwise law-abiding, I'd have happily handed over the V5 and keys for a modest fee (depending on their means - if they'd poured every spare penny they had into it, bearing in mind what I spent on renting the lockup I kept the damn thing in, I'd have done it for a token quid and bought them a beer too) and a drive for old time's sake.
As it was, all 'they' did once they'd broken into the lockup was to smash the rear windscreen and sleep rough in it (as evidenced by the beer cans, drug paraphernalia and porn mags I found in it). 'They' (don't know if the same person) then dumped a load of junk (including two fridges) on top of it, while the rust continued to eat away at the bodywork and the monocoque base unit. I ended up selling it in 2008 for a mere £150 to act as a parts donor.
As it was, all 'they' did once they'd broken into the lockup was to smash the rear windscreen and sleep rough in it (as evidenced by the beer cans, drug paraphernalia and porn mags I found in it). 'They' (don't know if the same person) then dumped a load of junk (including two fridges) on top of it, while the rust continued to eat away at the bodywork and the monocoque base unit. I ended up selling it in 2008 for a mere £150 to act as a parts donor.
tali1 said:
Merc Cab and Lagonda are amazing spots- both need saving asap.Ironic Lagonda(one of the most imposing big saloons of our time )gets abuse when RRolls churn out the breeze block clown Phantom.
I hate the Phantom too, but it is at least better-proportioned than the gawky Lagonda.RoverP6B said:
all 'they' did once they'd broken into the lockup was to smash the rear windscreen and sleep rough in it (as evidenced by the beer cans, drug paraphernalia and porn mags I found in it).
We had a person used to let themselves into our Scimitar to sleep. Very odd really. It was parked at the side of the road outside our flat, and we went through a spell of coming out to it in the morning and finding things left in it that weren't there the night before, like methadone prescriptions and such. It was always left undamaged and locked up (for all the use that was).Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff