Help Facel Vega, Facel 2
Discussion
Duesey said:
How much more would you think a RHD could command over a LHD of the same history/quality ?
It seems overpriced to me but I'm not complaining
Claire
Dear Claire,The LHD facels are more valuble than RHD for all the obvious reasons.Japan is still RHD like the UK,but there are very few facels in japan.This car has been for sale since the flood [Noah's flood not the recent problems]Europe has been the strongest market for facels over the past few years,and this is where the top money is achieved.A Facel II RHD in top condition should be worth about £100.000.[but try to get it]The only RHD Facel II likely to fetch anything like this sort of money is the Ringo Starr car for silly reasons,It is the only 6.7 litre RHD Facel II,manual [in my view a disadvantage but buyers dont agree]and it was briefly owned by a "popstar".It seems overpriced to me but I'm not complaining
Claire
I also think that it's overpriced by a silly amount but it's great to see Facels finaly being valued closer to what I think they are worth. If you compare them to coach built Rolls Royces or Aston Martins, Facels still offer great value for money. Obviously though not at the £250,000 mark but in real world prices. The down side is the fact that now I may never be able to add a Facel 11 to my stable unless I sell a kidney? Maybe it's time to find a Facelia????????? or a Gordon Keeble, Bristol, Monteverdi????????
facelman said:
Dear Claire,The LHD facels are more valuble than RHD for all the obvious reasons.Japan is still RHD like the UK,but there are very few facels in japan.This car has been for sale since the flood [Noah's flood not the recent problems]Europe has been the strongest market for facels over the past few years,and this is where the top money is achieved.A Facel II RHD in top condition should be worth about £100.000.[but try to get it]The only RHD Facel II likely to fetch anything like this sort of money is the Ringo Starr car for silly reasons,It is the only 6.7 litre RHD Facel II,manual [in my view a disadvantage but buyers dont agree]and it was briefly owned by a "popstar".
Agree with nearly all stuff here also John. RHD is rarer than LHD by a long shot, so when the UK wakes up a little bit, economy wise and also understanding Facel wise, I expect RHD to worth more in the future, there are only 26 odd cars out there.£100k is the going rate for an average car at the moment, Left or Right, and I dont think there will be any problem getting this for a good RHD car, I have turned down more than this for my car in recent months (Although it is just freshly restored) the market is moving on for Facel II's.
Agree with the Ringo car, I have a soft spot for it myself, even though it is manual, as you say, and I certainly value it highly.
Justin
justin-banks said:
Agree with nearly all stuff here also John. RHD is rarer than LHD by a long shot, so when the UK wakes up a little bit, economy wise and also understanding Facel wise, I expect RHD to worth more in the future, there are only 26 odd cars out there.
£100k is the going rate for an average car at the moment, Left or Right, and I dont think there will be any problem getting this for a good RHD car, I have turned down more than this for my car in recent months (Although it is just freshly restored) the market is moving on for Facel II's.
Agree with the Ringo car, I have a soft spot for it myself, even though it is manual, as you say, and I certainly value it highly.
Justin
As a dealer Justin,you know very well that rarity is no guarantee of value.My genuine Bugatti Grand Prix single seater is one of only five made,On a very good day it might fetch £250.000 to £300.000.Yet a much less rare fake Type 35B could fetch the same..... Even standard Type 37's are worth more than my very "rare" T73c single seater.The market always decides,and as you say the english demand for facels has always been small.There are of course less than 26 RHD Facel IIs as some have been converted to LHD.......quad erat demonstrandum £100k is the going rate for an average car at the moment, Left or Right, and I dont think there will be any problem getting this for a good RHD car, I have turned down more than this for my car in recent months (Although it is just freshly restored) the market is moving on for Facel II's.
Agree with the Ringo car, I have a soft spot for it myself, even though it is manual, as you say, and I certainly value it highly.
Justin
facelman said:
As a dealer Justin,you know very well that rarity is no guarantee of value.My genuine Bugatti Grand Prix single seater is one of only five made,On a very good day it might fetch £250.000 to £300.000.Yet a much less rare fake Type 35B could fetch the same..... Even standard Type 37's are worth more than my very "rare" T73c single seater.The market always decides,and as you say the english demand for facels has always been small.There are of course less than 26 RHD Facel IIs as some have been converted to LHD.......quad erat demonstrandum
All true John, I guess all will be revealed when the next RHD car sells publicly.Justin
Have we any chance to get a picture of your car, Justin ? Is it a future sale or your personal car ?
For those who understand French : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIOQ6gDxwpY
For those who understand French : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIOQ6gDxwpY
facelman said:
bosscerbera said:
John - have you ever 'sorted' the suspension on one to improve it?
I drew up a new Facel XII when I first bought the facel spares from paris.It would have involved a new chassis using the best suspension available,Jaguar XJ6.Mr Daninos was not impressed ! Our second idea was to get the tooling and panels up to Jensen for them to build convertable Facel IIs.Despite a meeting with Ian Orford the then owner of Jensen,my backer was not at all impressed with the quality of work at Jensen in the 1980.s so the idea was dropped.dave de roxby said:
I am totally intrigued by this thread. Understand, sadly, M. Daninos is no longer with us but would love to know more about your concept for a Facel XII (12 as in V12 possibly?). Why was Daninos so against the XJ6 suspension? What sort of a guy was he? Does Facel still exist as a company in France? (obviously the car side does not!)
The plan was to use the V12 Jaguar engine.As well as the jaguar suspension.In fact the car would have been a rebodied and rechassied Jaguar V12.Jean Daninos never told me at the time I was planning this that HE was also [in the early 1980's] working with an english consultant to design a new Facel himself.No wonder then that he was not happy about my ideas.The "family tree" of Facel SA is very complex.When I bought the remains I bought also the rights of Mr Duchene to continue building facels USING EXISTING PARTS from the factory stores,as Mr Duchene had been doing after the collapse of the original company [there were quite a few unfinished cars on the production line which he finished off].A new car using Jaguar components would have stretched my rights even if all the body parts were going to be original.At least 60% of the cars would have been new parts.The rights that I inherited with my purchase from Mr Duchene were separate from the rights proper to the Facel Vega name,which were still held by Mr Paul Badre.These rights are now held by the Amicale Facel Vega in France [the club for facels]My second plan which got as far as meetings with Ian Orford MD of Jensen,were to use the original parts and tooling to build Facel II convertibles on Jensen chassis.Jensen were quite keen to do this.Unfortunately my backer was not impressed with the quality of Jensens work at that time,so this also came to naught.My third idea which never got beyond a feasability study,was to take ten cars a month from the Northern Ireland based Delorean company,and rebadge them as Facels with suitable connolly trim and a decent dashboard.Fortunately perhaps this idea also went nowhere.I might have ended up doing time with the MD of Delorean. Duesey said:
Great car, sold for £110k on the hammer so would cost about £150k after commission and taxes in the UK.It is now on sale at the Blackhawk Collection for £220k ish. Still great value!
d.wilde said:
Have we any chance to get a picture of your car, Justin ? Is it a future sale or your personal car ?
For those who understand French : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIOQ6gDxwpY
This is my personal car, not for sale....well....maybe, I am a dealer after all!For those who understand French : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIOQ6gDxwpY
I am reliably informed I will have it back after two years of resto in the next couple of weeks. Will upload some pics when I get it back. How is yours coming along?
facelman said:
The plan was to use the V12 Jaguar engine.As well as the jaguar suspension.In fact the car would have been a rebodied and rechassied Jaguar V12.Jean Daninos never told me at the time I was planning this that HE was also [in the early 1980's] working with an english consultant to design a new Facel himself.No wonder then that he was not happy about my ideas.The "family tree" of Facel SA is very complex.When I bought the remains I bought also the rights of Mr Duchene to continue building facels USING EXISTING PARTS from the factory stores,as Mr Duchene had been doing after the collapse of the original company [there were quite a few unfinished cars on the production line which he finished off].A new car using Jaguar components would have stretched my rights even if all the body parts were going to be original.At least 60% of the cars would have been new parts.The rights that I inherited with my purchase from Mr Duchene were separate from the rights proper to the Facel Vega name,which were still held by Mr Paul Badre.These rights are now held by the Amicale Facel Vega in France [the club for facels]My second plan which got as far as meetings with Ian Orford MD of Jensen,were to use the original parts and tooling to build Facel II convertibles on Jensen chassis.Jensen were quite keen to do this.Unfortunately my backer was not impressed with the quality of Jensens work at that time,so this also came to naught.My third idea which never got beyond a feasability study,was to take ten cars a month from the Northern Ireland based Delorean company,and rebadge them as Facels with suitable connolly trim and a decent dashboard.Fortunately perhaps this idea also went nowhere.I might have ended up doing time with the MD of Delorean.
Incredible story! Thank you for that Facelman.justin-banks said:
Great car, sold for £110k on the hammer so would cost about £150k after commission and taxes in the UK.
It is now on sale at the Blackhawk Collection for £220k ish. Still great value!
Dreadful colour.Never gild a lily.Was it a manual gearbox? It has two carbs so should be manual.It is now on sale at the Blackhawk Collection for £220k ish. Still great value!
d.wilde said:
For those who understand French : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIOQ6gDxwpY
Fabulous test drive, although I could hardly understandez un single mot. (You really must try harder Roxby - See me after prep!)Forgive me but another pedantic question about the glass. Are the Facel II front and rear screens the same, or at least the same shape?
Edited by dave de roxby on Friday 27th May 18:39
Actually, I think I've found some pics which seem to answer my own question - no, they are different. ??
Edited by dave de roxby on Friday 27th May 19:37
dave de roxby said:
Fabulous test drive, although I could hardly understandez un single mot. (You really must try harder Roxby - See me after prep!)
Forgive me but another pedantic question about the glass. Are the Facel II front and rear screens the same, or at least the same shape?
The front and rear screens are totally different.Though they are both made of glass.If anyone wants a new front screen for a facel II I have one on the shelf.Forgive me but another pedantic question about the glass. Are the Facel II front and rear screens the same, or at least the same shape?
Edited by dave de roxby on Friday 27th May 18:39
Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff