Help Facel Vega, Facel 2
Discussion
MikeyT said:
Are there (m)any that were brought into the UK that have just disappeared? ie have been bought and sold over the years and just ended up in private collections to come out once a year or crashed, or driven into a garage in 1982 and left there since etc - ie a few *missing* ones?
Didn't Quentin Wotsit own one years ago or was in a programme with one - can't remember which ...
Can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQrwbzDTvSQDidn't Quentin Wotsit own one years ago or was in a programme with one - can't remember which ...
As you all seem interested by Facel stories,I shall tell one told to me by Fred Hobbs at HWMotors.He was called to attend a certain lord of the realm.This noble had an Excellence.At the door Fred was met by a butler who inquired his business,he explained that he had been called about the excellence and wanted to know what was to be done with it.The butler returned shortly afterwards and said that his lordship told him to "burn it"
The Facel 11 is the only one for me! Even today, the overall presence is stunning.
And yet, most of the design is simple, even schoolboy?
Those wheelarches are almost too big, but being embellished by chrome makes them just right - a unique, key feature of the model.
The low proportion of side window to body height gives it that tough, aggressive, almost gangsterish look not seen in many cars (Chrysler 300C, Rover 3 litre Coupe?)
There is little double curvature except for the elegant nose and very front of the wings. You can see that most of the panels have been hand-fettled from flat sheet. Even the roof is virtually one flat sheet simply rolled at the edges. But it gets away with it by clever use of the surrounding frame, integrated with the front and rear screen surrounds.
The low set substantial chrome rear bumpers, probably useless for bumping (!) provide more of a finishing strip and foundation for the towering, slab-like rear wings, topped by those delicate trinket excuses for rear tail lights.
The crude squareness of the side windows somehow manages to fit with more massive front and rear screens (were they taken from some Yankmobile of the era?)
The grille is classic regal yet just a little flamboyant with its simple square mesh and attendant side vents.
And yet, overall a magnificent presence which carved out its own niche in sporty luxury and powerful elegance, never quite equalled in my opinion.
And yet, most of the design is simple, even schoolboy?
Those wheelarches are almost too big, but being embellished by chrome makes them just right - a unique, key feature of the model.
The low proportion of side window to body height gives it that tough, aggressive, almost gangsterish look not seen in many cars (Chrysler 300C, Rover 3 litre Coupe?)
There is little double curvature except for the elegant nose and very front of the wings. You can see that most of the panels have been hand-fettled from flat sheet. Even the roof is virtually one flat sheet simply rolled at the edges. But it gets away with it by clever use of the surrounding frame, integrated with the front and rear screen surrounds.
The low set substantial chrome rear bumpers, probably useless for bumping (!) provide more of a finishing strip and foundation for the towering, slab-like rear wings, topped by those delicate trinket excuses for rear tail lights.
The crude squareness of the side windows somehow manages to fit with more massive front and rear screens (were they taken from some Yankmobile of the era?)
The grille is classic regal yet just a little flamboyant with its simple square mesh and attendant side vents.
And yet, overall a magnificent presence which carved out its own niche in sporty luxury and powerful elegance, never quite equalled in my opinion.
dave de roxby said:
And yet, most of the design is simple, even schoolboy?
Those wheelarches are almost too big, but being embellished by chrome makes them just right - a unique, key feature of the model.
The low proportion of side window to body height gives it that tough, aggressive, almost gangsterish look not seen in many cars.
Your comments made me compare the following two cars for similarity, (obviously ignore the number of wheels Those wheelarches are almost too big, but being embellished by chrome makes them just right - a unique, key feature of the model.
The low proportion of side window to body height gives it that tough, aggressive, almost gangsterish look not seen in many cars.
)
mark387mw said:
dave de roxby said:
And yet, most of the design is simple, even schoolboy?
Those wheelarches are almost too big, but being embellished by chrome makes them just right - a unique, key feature of the model.
The low proportion of side window to body height gives it that tough, aggressive, almost gangsterish look not seen in many cars.
Your comments made me compare the following two cars for similarity, (obviously ignore the number of wheels Those wheelarches are almost too big, but being embellished by chrome makes them just right - a unique, key feature of the model.
The low proportion of side window to body height gives it that tough, aggressive, almost gangsterish look not seen in many cars.
)The very first time I was aware of Facel Vega, was at the age of 11 in 1977. My dad brought a copy of Thoroughbred & Classic Cars magazine home (now just Classic Cars) and there was a small black and white ad in the classifieds by a dealer for an HK500 which needed bodywork and an exhaust for £1250.
Something about the front view which really appealed to me and after asking my dad about them, they've been my biggest want car-wise ever since.
Wonder what ever happened to the car that was up for sale for £1250.
Something about the front view which really appealed to me and after asking my dad about them, they've been my biggest want car-wise ever since.
Wonder what ever happened to the car that was up for sale for £1250.
dave de roxby said:
The Facel 11 is the only one for me! Even today, the overall presence is stunning.
And yet, most of the design is simple, even schoolboy?
Those wheelarches are almost too big, but being embellished by chrome makes them just right - a unique, key feature of the model.
The low proportion of side window to body height gives it that tough, aggressive, almost gangsterish look not seen in many cars (Chrysler 300C, Rover 3 litre Coupe?)
There is little double curvature except for the elegant nose and very front of the wings. You can see that most of the panels have been hand-fettled from flat sheet. Even the roof is virtually one flat sheet simply rolled at the edges. But it gets away with it by clever use of the surrounding frame, integrated with the front and rear screen surrounds.
The low set substantial chrome rear bumpers, probably useless for bumping (!) provide more of a finishing strip and foundation for the towering, slab-like rear wings, topped by those delicate trinket excuses for rear tail lights.
The crude squareness of the side windows somehow manages to fit with more massive front and rear screens (were they taken from some Yankmobile of the era?)
The grille is classic regal yet just a little flamboyant with its simple square mesh and attendant side vents.
And yet, overall a magnificent presence which carved out its own niche in sporty luxury and powerful elegance, never quite equalled in my opinion.
You had better stay on this site,you may learn a few things.NO panels on a Facel are "hand rolled" from sheet.Every panel is pressed.There is very little chrome,the wheelarch trims are stainless steel as are the bumpers and almost but not quite every other piece of brightwork.The headlamp trims on facel II / III / and F6 are chrome plated steel [but facel did not make those]The door handles are also plated.The side windows like the door windows are curved not straight,these were all made specially for facel,not from any other car.In all a very beautiful car to look at,let down by a certain crudity in the suspension department.And yet, most of the design is simple, even schoolboy?
Those wheelarches are almost too big, but being embellished by chrome makes them just right - a unique, key feature of the model.
The low proportion of side window to body height gives it that tough, aggressive, almost gangsterish look not seen in many cars (Chrysler 300C, Rover 3 litre Coupe?)
There is little double curvature except for the elegant nose and very front of the wings. You can see that most of the panels have been hand-fettled from flat sheet. Even the roof is virtually one flat sheet simply rolled at the edges. But it gets away with it by clever use of the surrounding frame, integrated with the front and rear screen surrounds.
The low set substantial chrome rear bumpers, probably useless for bumping (!) provide more of a finishing strip and foundation for the towering, slab-like rear wings, topped by those delicate trinket excuses for rear tail lights.
The crude squareness of the side windows somehow manages to fit with more massive front and rear screens (were they taken from some Yankmobile of the era?)
The grille is classic regal yet just a little flamboyant with its simple square mesh and attendant side vents.
And yet, overall a magnificent presence which carved out its own niche in sporty luxury and powerful elegance, never quite equalled in my opinion.
d.wilde said:
It's HK2B149, a british Facel II converted to LHD.
HK2B149 in the sixties.
Not the sixties I feel,rather the 70's.These reflective number plates give the game away.This is one of three facels owned by Rene Kuyvenhoven.He had a blue and a red Facel II,and an HK 500.He swopped the blue Facel II for a Facel III convertable which would be more suitable for his retirement in Switzerland.He was last heard of near Zug. HK2B149 in the sixties.
Edited by facelman on Sunday 8th May 15:39
facelman said:
NO panels on a Facel are "hand rolled" from sheet.Every panel is pressed.There is very little chrome,the wheelarch trims are stainless steel as are the bumpers and almost but not quite every other piece of brightwork.The headlamp trims on facel II / III / and F6 are chrome plated steel [but facel did not make those]The door handles are also plated.The side windows like the door windows are curved not straight,these were all made specially for facel,not from any other car.In all a very beautiful car to look at,let down by a certain crudity in the suspension department.
Yes, eager to know all about Facel who I am aware were producers of stamped body panels and indeed complete bodies for other makers before it started producing its own cars.
My comments really related to the styling and the original creation of the prototypes before the dies were cast. Having much practical experience of 'wheeling' and bespoke panel fabrication etc, I can see at once exactly how the original shapes must have been produced. Bet they never recouped their tooling costs! I used the word 'chrome' in a generic sort of way and am glad to hear stainless predominated for the brightwork. Were the headlamp surrounds used by any other manufacturers?
I didn't clock the side windows were curved but can see it now on the pics - Austin 1100's first had them over here at about the same time - but I'm not suggesting any connection! But I would be interested to know if the front and rear screens originally came from other existing cars. If they didn't, I'm at a loss as to why the glasshouse looks slightly 'cobbled-up' although as I said before, it all manages to hang together very successfully, in a 60s sort of way.
I admire the other Facels as interesting cars but the Facel 11 is truly beautiful and one of the few cars that justifies the term 'classic' IMHO.
Edited by dave de roxby on Sunday 8th May 17:54
bosscerbera said:
John - have you ever 'sorted' the suspension on one to improve it?
I drew up a new Facel XII when I first bought the facel spares from paris.It would have involved a new chassis using the best suspension available,Jaguar XJ6.Mr Daninos was not impressed ! Our second idea was to get the tooling and panels up to Jensen for them to build convertable Facel IIs.Despite a meeting with Ian Orford the then owner of Jensen,my backer was not at all impressed with the quality of work at Jensen in the 1980.s so the idea was dropped.dave de roxby said:
Yes, eager to know all about Facel who I am aware were producers of stamped body panels and indeed complete bodies for other makers before it started producing its own cars.
My comments really related to the styling and the original creation of the prototypes before the dies were cast. Having much practical experience of 'wheeling' and bespoke panel fabrication etc, I can see at once exactly how the original shapes must have been produced. Bet they never recouped their tooling costs! I used the word 'chrome' in a generic sort of way and am glad to hear stainless predominated for the brightwork. Were the headlamp surrounds used by any other manufacturers?
I didn't clock the side windows were curved but can see it now on the pics - Austin 1100's first had them over here at about the same time - but I'm not suggesting any connection! But I would be interested to know if the front and rear screens originally came from other existing cars. If they didn't, I'm at a loss as to why the glasshouse looks slightly 'cobbled-up' although as I said before, it all manages to hang together very successfully, in a 60s sort of way.
I admire the other Facels as interesting cars but the Facel 11 is truly beautiful and one of the few cars that justifies the term 'classic' IMHO.
The tooling costs using low melt tooling were quite modest.I still have some of the tooling which is remarkably heavy.I forget the name of the metal [it ends in ITE !]All of the Facel glass was bespoke for facel and not bought in [sadly today !] Developement of the Facel II started with changes to the wheelarches of the HK500.The prototype facel II has a delightful 2+2 body like a Facellia FHC.One of my very favorite Facels.Photos exist of the HK 500 with SS trims on the reshaped wheelarches.I don't know how to post photos but maybe my friend Wilde can put up photos of the first Facel II which was owned for some years by a friend Jean Francois Pineau.My comments really related to the styling and the original creation of the prototypes before the dies were cast. Having much practical experience of 'wheeling' and bespoke panel fabrication etc, I can see at once exactly how the original shapes must have been produced. Bet they never recouped their tooling costs! I used the word 'chrome' in a generic sort of way and am glad to hear stainless predominated for the brightwork. Were the headlamp surrounds used by any other manufacturers?
I didn't clock the side windows were curved but can see it now on the pics - Austin 1100's first had them over here at about the same time - but I'm not suggesting any connection! But I would be interested to know if the front and rear screens originally came from other existing cars. If they didn't, I'm at a loss as to why the glasshouse looks slightly 'cobbled-up' although as I said before, it all manages to hang together very successfully, in a 60s sort of way.
I admire the other Facels as interesting cars but the Facel 11 is truly beautiful and one of the few cars that justifies the term 'classic' IMHO.
Edited by dave de roxby on Sunday 8th May 17:54
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