Discussion
tonyvid said:
julian64 said:
If you were worried about your friend why did you call the NHS, why didn't you go round to the house yourself?
The NHS doesn't have any more rights of entry than you do.
One friend prepared to go round themselves, is worth a hundred telephone friends.
The last point is a good point. I think they are quite a distance away, from earlier posts. Are we talking about someone on here?The NHS doesn't have any more rights of entry than you do.
One friend prepared to go round themselves, is worth a hundred telephone friends.
I really, really hope that this was just an attempt, and that it wasn't a successful one.
x-anonymous-x said:
rich1231 said:
Just to add, why a formal complaint?
He can't be sectioned etc without a family member and a doc involved (IIRC) Why the anger at the NHS itsele when your friend activel deceived them. Seems a kneejerk reaction to me.
That is a fair comment given the information I have presented. For various reasons I have held back on quite a few specifics. At least 1 person closely involved with his care was at best reckless or unprofessional on several occasions in a very short space of time. It is not fair on the persons family that I disclose details on here. It is as much these 'healthcare' people I have been fighting as my friend's depression. He can't be sectioned etc without a family member and a doc involved (IIRC) Why the anger at the NHS itsele when your friend activel deceived them. Seems a kneejerk reaction to me.
I don't believe a family member needs to be present, but I think a social worker and 2 doctors have to be. They have been on several occasions, at least 1 of which presented clear evidence of an intention to harm. There is also a history of it, which plays a part.
However might I add that he has repeatedly suggested to you that he was going to do it (in various forms) and that you have contacted the police/NHS/Support Services every time. Remember the boy who cried wolf?
I am not saying not to care, but I am pointing out that the support services can only deal with so much. If they did full investigations every time someone hinted at being suicidal the services would be overloaded with attention seekers and people who genuinely need help would be left floundering.
Please remember support services people are only human and capable of so much - they too only have 24 hour days and limited resource.
tonyvid said:
I think x-anonymous-x did as much as one person can do, especially at range. What an enormous pressure to be under. TBH, if the person in question was so determined to go the whole hog then there is probably nothing anyone could have done.
Exactly, this is a (to be frank) sorry excuse of a person crying wolf and being selfish - they come over as attention seeking rather than having a genuine problem, so the Services will have started to not pay so much attention x-anonymous-x - read through the thread again, and take heed from the posts of those of us that have attempted it. Take strgenth from the fact that although concerned, most of us thought these were criefor help. And from those that have lost loved ones to suicide that know that there was nothing they coukd do about it, when they knew there was a problem, it was too late
There was nothing further you or anyone else could have done.
My thoughts are with you, tis a dreadful situation to find yourself in.
ali_kat said:
tonyvid said:
julian64 said:
If you were worried about your friend why did you call the NHS, why didn't you go round to the house yourself?
The NHS doesn't have any more rights of entry than you do.
One friend prepared to go round themselves, is worth a hundred telephone friends.
The last point is a good point. I think they are quite a distance away, from earlier posts. Are we talking about someone on here?The NHS doesn't have any more rights of entry than you do.
One friend prepared to go round themselves, is worth a hundred telephone friends.
I really, really hope that this was just an attempt, and that it wasn't a successful one.
Me, I'd probably traverse the country if need be.
The NHS services are not good for that sort of call. Every day I get calls that say 'I've come to see my mum at the moment and she's very depressed at the moment', also a boatload of calls that say 'Could you check on my mum cos she sounded depressed on the phone'.
re-insert condition as you will. The simple fact is that I will prioritise where someone is on scene, because experience has taught me the others are more likely to be red herring where you visit and the person is out/gone shopping, or who didn't want a visit, or guilty relative is doing some caring by proxy. Not always the case, but on a day when I'm overrun by rels who thought it important to attend, the second lot get prioritised for a different day. Not ideal, but there you go, its just not possible.
julian64 said:
So ali, you think one of your friends is thinking about suicide. Tell me, how far would you be prepared to drive?
Me, I'd probably traverse the country if need be.
Me too, but this was late at night when they had possibly had a drink, sometimes it is just not possible Me, I'd probably traverse the country if need be.
If it was the first time, I'd have pulled out all the stops, if not possible to go that night, then the next day. But after several nights of this, you'd do what you could from a distance, but not make that extra effort, because they have cried wolf before.......
Just makes the end result truly tragic
And I really feel for x-anonymous-x right now. Especially if their friend succeeded......This is also a PHer talking about another PHer, IF the ID gets made public, this will have an effect on a lot of us
julian64 said:
The NHS services are not good for that sort of call. Every day I get calls that say 'I've come to see my mum at the moment and she's very depressed at the moment', also a boatload of calls that say 'Could you check on my mum cos she sounded depressed on the phone'.
re-insert condition as you will. The simple fact is that I will prioritise where someone is on scene, because experience has taught me the others are more likely to be red herring where you visit and the person is out/gone shopping, or who didn't want a visit, or guilty relative is doing some caring by proxy. Not always the case, but on a day when I'm overrun by rels who thought it important to attend, the second lot get prioritised for a different day. Not ideal, but there you go, its just not possible.
They preferr to deal with those that are not self harming, and who can blame them really?
ali_kat said:
julian64 said:
So ali, you think one of your friends is thinking about suicide. Tell me, how far would you be prepared to drive?
Me, I'd probably traverse the country if need be.
Me too, but this was late at night when they had possibly had a drink, sometimes it is just not possible Me, I'd probably traverse the country if need be.
If it was the first time, I'd have pulled out all the stops, if not possible to go that night, then the next day. But after several nights of this, you'd do what you could from a distance, but not make that extra effort, because they have cried wolf before.......
Just makes the end result truly tragic
And I really feel for x-anonymous-x right now. Especially if their friend succeeded......This is also a PHer talking about another PHer, IF the ID gets made public, this will have an effect on a lot of us
julian64 said:
The NHS services are not good for that sort of call. Every day I get calls that say 'I've come to see my mum at the moment and she's very depressed at the moment', also a boatload of calls that say 'Could you check on my mum cos she sounded depressed on the phone'.
re-insert condition as you will. The simple fact is that I will prioritise where someone is on scene, because experience has taught me the others are more likely to be red herring where you visit and the person is out/gone shopping, or who didn't want a visit, or guilty relative is doing some caring by proxy. Not always the case, but on a day when I'm overrun by rels who thought it important to attend, the second lot get prioritised for a different day. Not ideal, but there you go, its just not possible.
They preferr to deal with those that are not self harming, and who can blame them really?
Unless I'm missing something, there seems to be no confirmation that this person has done themselves in and anonymous has gone quiet?
I sincerely hope the worst hasnt happened and I have a feeling I know who is being discussed here... so if possible could you confirm either way please???
I sincerely hope the worst hasnt happened and I have a feeling I know who is being discussed here... so if possible could you confirm either way please???
rich1231 said:
How far should support form the state/NHS go? Seriously, how much responsibilty do you want taken away from the individual in cases like this?
Was that aimed at me Rich, or a generic question?IMHO, if someone is intent on self harming themselves, and have a history of 'serious' attempts, then they should be sectioned for their own safety. But then it is upto the professional that sees them as to how much of a danger they think that person is putting themselves into.
It goes both ways, I have a friend that will apply for sectioning themselves when they know they are feeling 'in danger' but then they are bi-polar.
But then I have another bi-polar friend that has been sectioned many times as a result of being found comatose and taken to hospital by friends/relatives/neighbours.
In both cases, they don't 'cry for help', they just do it. One recognises that they are ill and needs help, the other doesn't
Thought I may as well add to this thread rather than start another.
Found out via a Facebook update that a friend had attempted an overdose a few weeks ago. Normal guy, had spoken to him roughly around the date of his O/D (unsuccessful) and dont remember anything out of the ordinary.
Whatever thoughts he was having werent obvious to anyone he spoke to face to face, but looking back through his online history it should have been obvious. No-one spotted it until later though, it just seemed run of the mill pissed off'ness at life in general with no aim to fix it.
Everyone seems to have the impression that it was a cry for help rather than a "proper" attempt at calling it a day, but he refuses to talk to anyone about it, says it never happened, it was all a big misunderstanding. Those who were at the hospital say otherwise
Very strange, still havent got my head around it
Found out via a Facebook update that a friend had attempted an overdose a few weeks ago. Normal guy, had spoken to him roughly around the date of his O/D (unsuccessful) and dont remember anything out of the ordinary.
Whatever thoughts he was having werent obvious to anyone he spoke to face to face, but looking back through his online history it should have been obvious. No-one spotted it until later though, it just seemed run of the mill pissed off'ness at life in general with no aim to fix it.
Everyone seems to have the impression that it was a cry for help rather than a "proper" attempt at calling it a day, but he refuses to talk to anyone about it, says it never happened, it was all a big misunderstanding. Those who were at the hospital say otherwise
Very strange, still havent got my head around it
andy-xr said:
Thought I may as well add to this thread rather than start another.
Found out via a Facebook update that a friend had attempted an overdose a few weeks ago. Normal guy, had spoken to him roughly around the date of his O/D (unsuccessful) and dont remember anything out of the ordinary.
Whatever thoughts he was having werent obvious to anyone he spoke to face to face, but looking back through his online history it should have been obvious. No-one spotted it until later though, it just seemed run of the mill pissed off'ness at life in general with no aim to fix it.
Everyone seems to have the impression that it was a cry for help rather than a "proper" attempt at calling it a day, but he refuses to talk to anyone about it, says it never happened, it was all a big misunderstanding. Those who were at the hospital say otherwise
Very strange, still havent got my head around it
if he wanted to do it he'd have done itFound out via a Facebook update that a friend had attempted an overdose a few weeks ago. Normal guy, had spoken to him roughly around the date of his O/D (unsuccessful) and dont remember anything out of the ordinary.
Whatever thoughts he was having werent obvious to anyone he spoke to face to face, but looking back through his online history it should have been obvious. No-one spotted it until later though, it just seemed run of the mill pissed off'ness at life in general with no aim to fix it.
Everyone seems to have the impression that it was a cry for help rather than a "proper" attempt at calling it a day, but he refuses to talk to anyone about it, says it never happened, it was all a big misunderstanding. Those who were at the hospital say otherwise
Very strange, still havent got my head around it
plus the facebook angle?!?
It was the other way around, face to face no problems - worlds a great place, then a status update from a relative using his login to update the friends list on what was going on. Presumably the quickest way to tell everyone what had happened, and at first it looked like it was taken as a joke/account hack. Only later when people had been to the hospital was it taken a bit more seriously. I think the downplay comes from a 3rd party telling a lot of people all at once
Also agree that it was a bit of attention seeking, there wasnt enough to be lethal but still not something you take lightly though incase of a next time. He's being watched pretty much 24/7 by his family members
Also agree that it was a bit of attention seeking, there wasnt enough to be lethal but still not something you take lightly though incase of a next time. He's being watched pretty much 24/7 by his family members
A short while back doc advised this site as I was showing symptoms of stress and suffering a stress related illness. But it goes much much further than that. wether it's stress, anxiety, depression or some other mind problem this is very easy to use and as you can do it at home nobody else needs to know.
It is excellent, It is also free just a simple registration
http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome/new/terms
ETA To start after a simple test it tells you how twisted your mind is I wonder who would get the highest score on PH????
It is excellent, It is also free just a simple registration
http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome/new/terms
ETA To start after a simple test it tells you how twisted your mind is I wonder who would get the highest score on PH????
Edited by ypauly on Monday 15th December 19:45
stigmundfreud said:
the way people live their lives on facebook or mongface makes me contemplate suicide. I'd do it too but for the fact I dont have a massive network of 200+ "friends" to tell via a status message
I tend to agree. Far too many people put their faith in these virtual worlds and never seem to learn how to function in the real world. So when crap happens in the real world (or even in their virtual world ffs) they just cannot cope.
We have a whole generation of people growing up that dont know how to function properly face to face, cannot make a phone call, but can text at 100 "words" a minute and who benchmark their lives by how many "mates" they have on facebook and how many flipping "tickels" they get everyday.
God help me when I am retired in 30 years and these people are expected to keep this country functioning and earn wealth to keep me in my pension.
PH and the car forums are bad enough, I spend far too much time on here! But I draw the line at the "online social networks" FFS surely social implies some element of actually meeting people! ! !
Anyway, I am off to chat with 18 yr old Tiffany from Wisconsin. God I hope it does not tuyrn out to be 25stone, 45 year old Graham from Warrington, and he doesn't love me after all, or I would have to top myself with a rusty farm implement!
andy-xr said:
Thought I may as well add to this thread rather than start another.
Found out via a Facebook update that a friend had attempted an overdose a few weeks ago. Normal guy, had spoken to him roughly around the date of his O/D (unsuccessful) and dont remember anything out of the ordinary.
Whatever thoughts he was having werent obvious to anyone he spoke to face to face, but looking back through his online history it should have been obvious. No-one spotted it until later though, it just seemed run of the mill pissed off'ness at life in general with no aim to fix it.
Everyone seems to have the impression that it was a cry for help rather than a "proper" attempt at calling it a day, but he refuses to talk to anyone about it, says it never happened, it was all a big misunderstanding. Those who were at the hospital say otherwise
Very strange, still havent got my head around it
Sorry to hear. I have nothing constructive to add over and above what I've already said on this thread. However, you may wish to reconsider the R888s as a winter tyre choice. Found out via a Facebook update that a friend had attempted an overdose a few weeks ago. Normal guy, had spoken to him roughly around the date of his O/D (unsuccessful) and dont remember anything out of the ordinary.
Whatever thoughts he was having werent obvious to anyone he spoke to face to face, but looking back through his online history it should have been obvious. No-one spotted it until later though, it just seemed run of the mill pissed off'ness at life in general with no aim to fix it.
Everyone seems to have the impression that it was a cry for help rather than a "proper" attempt at calling it a day, but he refuses to talk to anyone about it, says it never happened, it was all a big misunderstanding. Those who were at the hospital say otherwise
Very strange, still havent got my head around it
s3fella said:
PH and the car forums are bad enough, I spend far too much time on here! But I draw the line at the "online social networks" FFS surely social implies some element of actually meeting people! ! !
I find this stance interesting - what's the difference between PH and Facebook really? Both are websites that encourage people to interact, share interests, share stories, photos and experiences. It's curious that people post on a web-forum about how a different web-forum is not something they'd use...As for the social side, "real-life" meets are arranged on both PH and Facebook. I really can't see any material difference between the two sites other than that Facebook is far more popular than PH...
Over the years, people have changed their modes of communications; letter - telephone - email - web... Of course there will be some people who are socially disfunctional, there always have been and always will be, irrelevant of what the current popular mode of interaction is. Some people considering suicide would be considered socially disfunctional, some wouldn't. Sorting out the mental problems is the difficult thing, sadly.
Edited by ewenm on Monday 15th December 21:14
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