can't stand this place anymore
Discussion
Russwhitehouse said:
A couple used to own a small restaurant near us and were literally put out of business by RSI. I don't know the full details but in a nutshell they recieved a demand for a huge amount of money which they were unable to pay. They asked if they could pay in instalments, which was refused. When they explained they just could not find that sort on money, they were given x amount of days to do just that. When they managed to scrape together a small portion of it by borrowing from friends and family, RSI took it, then promptly initiated proceedings which resulted in them being shut down, all there catering equipment and furniture etc being auctioned off for next to nothing and them left bankrupt with no livelihood.
Had the authorities been reasonable, they would have got their money in instalments, the restaurant would still be in business so they would continue to get money and the couple in question would still be here, contributing to the local economy. As it is, RSI got a fraction of what they demanded and will now get nothing further from them. Blinkered short term thinking and a blind adherence to the rules has achieved nothing.
The RSI actually doesn't stick to the rules. They do not have a complaints procedure they operate. They do not allow accountant's calculations, just their own. They do not allow the official payment time frames when their 'customers' have difficulty paying.Had the authorities been reasonable, they would have got their money in instalments, the restaurant would still be in business so they would continue to get money and the couple in question would still be here, contributing to the local economy. As it is, RSI got a fraction of what they demanded and will now get nothing further from them. Blinkered short term thinking and a blind adherence to the rules has achieved nothing.
I have been told that if you try to take them to court, the courts conveniently lose all paperwork and the case is never heard.
I am glad I was warned before I set up business in France, I don't envy people who have to deal with the RSI and have even signed a French direct debit form. They seem to just empty people's bank accounts.
Depressing thread for those of us who live here and just about stay happy with heads above the water.
We have our down days (generally about one a month) when we want to try and sell up and hate everything here. However, a day or two later everything looks a lot better.
I really think France missed out on the 'customer service' revolution we went through in the eighties, the snotty/unhelpful attitude is one of the biggest cultural differences. That and the drivers! Oh, and the tax regimes.
I'm not sure how this story ends. Depressing.
We have our down days (generally about one a month) when we want to try and sell up and hate everything here. However, a day or two later everything looks a lot better.
I really think France missed out on the 'customer service' revolution we went through in the eighties, the snotty/unhelpful attitude is one of the biggest cultural differences. That and the drivers! Oh, and the tax regimes.
I'm not sure how this story ends. Depressing.
Driller said:
Russwhitehouse said:
Driller, I sympathise entirely with your frustration. My wife has a successful photography business out here and is constantly punished for any success she manages to generate. I have to question whether or not you did your homework fully back in those heady days when you moved over here? I know we only listened to the bits we wanted to and convinced ourselves that we would " sort out" the rest once we got here, deluded fools that we were. I also think that the people who come here to retire and " do lunch" every day probably have a more, how shall I put it, "rose tinted" perspective than those of us trying to row our own boats on a daily basis.
It's not all bad and there is a lot to be said for living here provided you don't aspire to anything. It's that acceptance of powerlessness that eludes most Brits and makes their lives frustrating and annoying as a result. We have done nearly twelve years here and have had some great times, but a good lunch and cheap wine just doesn't cut it anymore I'm afraid.
Thanks Russ, I can see that you really, really get what I'm on about, that helps a lot, seriously.It's not all bad and there is a lot to be said for living here provided you don't aspire to anything. It's that acceptance of powerlessness that eludes most Brits and makes their lives frustrating and annoying as a result. We have done nearly twelve years here and have had some great times, but a good lunch and cheap wine just doesn't cut it anymore I'm afraid.
Those phrases "punished for any success" and "provided you don't aspire to anything" are absolutely bloody bang on.
Funnily enough I've just done the 12 years myself and I think it must be some kind of tipping point.
To answer your question, no, no homework done at all, or at least only to find out if my dentistry degree was accepted here. ALL of the other s
t I've complained about, the rudeness, the mediocrity, the tax and social charges, the lack of service, the agressive driving, the absence of any sense of excellence or aspiring to it, I had absolutely no idea. I never could have imagined people could think like this. Did you realise?I met my other half 20 years ago when she came over to the UK and right from the start we decided I would go over to France to join her because her qualifications aren't valid in the UK.
The really tragic thing is that some English folk quite like it here because they must think a bit like the French but I didn't realise that the way I think is completely the opposite to everyone over here and the more time that passes you more you get reminded of this fact. And because you know you can't leave you stay and take on another commitment which makes it even more difficult to leave and before you know it you have a wife who can't work in the UK, a baby, a huge house to upkeep and a dental practice that you can't sell.
(I got an email yesterday to tell me the Convention collective (employment law) for my assistants had been updated again (happens every month-what the f
k do they need to change every month ?!). So the message goes "get this months update to the convention collective". So I phone them up and politely ask them who I can speak to to find out why they update it so often and the girl on the phone said "rien a foutre" and put the phone down.)My personal favourite so far: an expat friend closed his business, re-emigrated, and two years later all the money disappeared from his French account (not far off six figures). Despite the business no longer existing, URSSAF had "reactivated" the account, sent a debit note (to an address he left two years ago) and then just took the money when he didn't pay -- they don't need to go to court for that. Had to go for an injunction to get the cash back until the matter was resolved. Got it all set aside as there was a procedural irregularity in the service, thankfully.
Oh, and my wife's payslip has 29 separate deductions on it.
Coincidentally, I've just had a heartwarming experience to slightly rebalance this discussion.
On Friday we drove to Caen to see an accountant. Mrs Pop's car needed a door handle cable as it broke last week. It's a Smart car (I know
). Caen is the nearest smart dealer to us, but it is a 120km drive, 240km round trip. We arrived at the Mercedes dealers at 12:30, so obviously the shutters had just come down for lunch. So we killed an hour and got back there for them reopening at 13:35 (late reopening of course).
Naturally the part is not in stock. It can be ordered and will arrive on Monday (today). Can they post it to me, I'm very happy to pay any reasonable price for postage? "Non". Not "desole, non", just non, and the usual blank expression. I explained that another round trip would cost me about as much as the overpriced part, to no avail.
"Ok then, let me speak to your boss" (in my best French). Amazingly, at that point the attitude changed. "well let my try and sort it for you. Call me on Monday and I'll see what I can do".
Today I called him and hey presto the cable is in the post. I gushed my thanks, as it's not just the cost but the time I was moaning about. So, on this occasion its a big "well done" to Mercedes in Caen. It makes a pleasant change.
On Friday we drove to Caen to see an accountant. Mrs Pop's car needed a door handle cable as it broke last week. It's a Smart car (I know
). Caen is the nearest smart dealer to us, but it is a 120km drive, 240km round trip. We arrived at the Mercedes dealers at 12:30, so obviously the shutters had just come down for lunch. So we killed an hour and got back there for them reopening at 13:35 (late reopening of course).Naturally the part is not in stock. It can be ordered and will arrive on Monday (today). Can they post it to me, I'm very happy to pay any reasonable price for postage? "Non". Not "desole, non", just non, and the usual blank expression. I explained that another round trip would cost me about as much as the overpriced part, to no avail.
"Ok then, let me speak to your boss" (in my best French). Amazingly, at that point the attitude changed. "well let my try and sort it for you. Call me on Monday and I'll see what I can do".
Today I called him and hey presto the cable is in the post. I gushed my thanks, as it's not just the cost but the time I was moaning about. So, on this occasion its a big "well done" to Mercedes in Caen. It makes a pleasant change.
A common lawyer said:
Anyone in Paris is more than welcome to a beer on me, subject to being willing to join in my moaning about RSI/URSSAF trying to prevent any sort of economic recovery.
My personal favourite so far: an expat friend closed his business, re-emigrated, and two years later all the money disappeared from his French account (not far off six figures). Despite the business no longer existing, URSSAF had "reactivated" the account, sent a debit note (to an address he left two years ago) and then just took the money when he didn't pay -- they don't need to go to court for that. Had to go for an injunction to get the cash back until the matter was resolved. Got it all set aside as there was a procedural irregularity in the service, thankfully.
Oh, and my wife's payslip has 29 separate deductions on it.
I could be up for that. I'll add the convention collectif, Prodhomme and that tosser Emmanuel Macron to the RSI/URSSAF.My personal favourite so far: an expat friend closed his business, re-emigrated, and two years later all the money disappeared from his French account (not far off six figures). Despite the business no longer existing, URSSAF had "reactivated" the account, sent a debit note (to an address he left two years ago) and then just took the money when he didn't pay -- they don't need to go to court for that. Had to go for an injunction to get the cash back until the matter was resolved. Got it all set aside as there was a procedural irregularity in the service, thankfully.
Oh, and my wife's payslip has 29 separate deductions on it.
Scary and outrageous stuff with your friend. Glad he got it sorted but it must have been bloody stressful. They make the tax deductions complicated so no-one can understand exactly how much they are being f
ked up the arse for.Le Pop said:
Coincidentally, I've just had a heartwarming experience to slightly rebalance this discussion...
...Today I called him and hey presto the cable is in the post. I gushed my thanks, .
Great comments and story. You do know he doesn't give a flying f...Today I called him and hey presto the cable is in the post. I gushed my thanks, .
k about your thanks though don't you or the polite way you asked? 
My latest fun: wife got a call from my assistant (who is 1 month pregnant) at 8 this morning. She has been given 3 weeks off work because she doesn't feel good, which will probably become "pathological maternity leave" i.e. off until the baby is born and maternity leave finished.
Because of the URSSAF there's no way I can have a receptionist so I am at work for the foreseeable future with no assistant on those days my associate doesn't work and on the other days we will have to share her assistant.
So I have to do all the dentistry whilst answering the phone, taking payments and passing carte vital, making appointments and doing the sterilisation and cleaning.
Of course I will have to find a replacement (wish me luck) and I will have to pay her salary but also several hundred Euros a month towards the maternity leave of the one who is off.
(I'm going to ask someone to change the title of the thread, it was written in the heat of the moment)
We've had two visits from the huissiers de justice in the last year trying to seize goods from my son-in-law (on behalf of RSI) I don't know how they got this address as he hasn't lived here for many years and all the RSI letters go to his last address, I suppose we made a mistake when we were looking after the mail from his old mailbox and signed for a recommende that was found to be from RSI demanding a huge amount of money that he didn't owe for years that he wasn't even in France. All the relevant mail was passed on to his accountant who he was still paying to clear up and close his company but the accountant said he was getting nowhere with RSI. Luckily he has very little money left in his accounts in France so if they raid them they won't get very much at all.
Hi,
Some try to affiliate to foreign private insurance companies as ECE directives should permit, seems to be a hard way...
Éric Masson
A common lawyer said:
Anyone in Paris is more than welcome to a beer on me, subject to being willing to join in my moaning about RSI/URSSAF trying to prevent any sort of economic recovery.
Check http://qlss.fr/ and linksSome try to affiliate to foreign private insurance companies as ECE directives should permit, seems to be a hard way...
Éric Masson
Hi,
Unfortunately the relationship between employers and employees often suffer from a kind of class struggle, which leads to conflict situations in which the customer will be collateral damage.
Some will take this as an excuse to act like an asshole that will do the less possible, others will do their job without any particular spirit but some will do their best to help you, regardless of their situation (even, if it's easier when everything's fine). It's a question of dedication.
I had a problem with a VW reseller few weeks ago, as I was looking for cobra alarm fobs (15 years old ones supplied with my Hethel ali tub were damaged) and knew that they were still available in '00 Polo spare parts catalog.
On first call, Friday afternoon, the storekeeper was away, on next call, Monday morning, he tried to bullst me, stating these parts were no longer available, so one of my friends went to a VW dealership near him and bought the fobs for me, asking for an invoice.
I'll probably file RSN a complaint to VW France HQ, stating the reseller didn't bother looking for or even offer to order parts he should have had in stock and that I had to get these elsewhere.
This kind of behaviour irritates everyone, I just hope that one day responsibles will understand that a dissatisfied customer won't return.
Éric Masson
Le Pop said:
Coincidentally, I've just had a heartwarming experience to slightly rebalance this discussion.
Life isn't black & white, even here (*).Unfortunately the relationship between employers and employees often suffer from a kind of class struggle, which leads to conflict situations in which the customer will be collateral damage.
Some will take this as an excuse to act like an asshole that will do the less possible, others will do their job without any particular spirit but some will do their best to help you, regardless of their situation (even, if it's easier when everything's fine). It's a question of dedication.
I had a problem with a VW reseller few weeks ago, as I was looking for cobra alarm fobs (15 years old ones supplied with my Hethel ali tub were damaged) and knew that they were still available in '00 Polo spare parts catalog.
On first call, Friday afternoon, the storekeeper was away, on next call, Monday morning, he tried to bulls
t me, stating these parts were no longer available, so one of my friends went to a VW dealership near him and bought the fobs for me, asking for an invoice.I'll probably file RSN a complaint to VW France HQ, stating the reseller didn't bother looking for or even offer to order parts he should have had in stock and that I had to get these elsewhere.
This kind of behaviour irritates everyone, I just hope that one day responsibles will understand that a dissatisfied customer won't return.
Éric Masson
- : Several shades of gray here as well, but fortunately, no Mommy Porn
jonah35 said:
As a dentist in the UK many earn £200kpa plus you'd retire on a good final salary pension of c.£50k plus
Wouldn't that be a good option, then retire to france.
You say you're struggling to make 100k euro whereas in the UK a dentist can easily make far more.
http://www.prospects.ac.uk/dentist_salary.htmWouldn't that be a good option, then retire to france.
You say you're struggling to make 100k euro whereas in the UK a dentist can easily make far more.
Most dentists are self-employed contractors, mixing NHS with private work, and earn between £50,000 and £110,000 annually, while wholly private dentists can earn £140,000+.
http://www.cnsd.fr/actualite/news/618-les-chirurgi...
Revenus
Les chiffres de la Drees indiquent que les revenus moyens des chirurgiens-dentistes libéraux s’élevaient à 92 908 € en 2012. Mais 15,8 % des chirurgiens-dentistes ont un revenu inférieur à 37 548 € et 11 % ont un revenu supérieur à 187 740 €.
Ces écarts croissent régulièrement.
Just sayin....
Steve
emss said:
Check http://qlss.fr/ and links
Some try to affiliate to foreign private insurance companies as ECE directives should permit, seems to be a hard way...
Éric Masson
If you scrape past the legal woo (see also, freemen on the land, etc.), it basically involves making yourself judgment proof and refusing to pay anything to anyone: http://liberte-sociale.eu/que-faire-pour-vous-rend...Some try to affiliate to foreign private insurance companies as ECE directives should permit, seems to be a hard way...
Éric Masson
They seem to think that you can just open an account in Luxembourg and the huissiers won't ever get to it. Hope no-one with anything to lose ever goes down this road...
Hi,
Like many other countries in Europe, French Government try to only transcribe the directives that fit with their views and scrap the others.
éric Masson
A common lawyer said:
Hope no-one with anything to lose ever goes down this road...
I just stated that people were trying to escape from RSI & SS and that it seemed to be a hard way.Like many other countries in Europe, French Government try to only transcribe the directives that fit with their views and scrap the others.
éric Masson
emss said:
I just stated that people were trying to escape from RSI & SS and that it seemed to be a hard way.
Like many other countries in Europe, French Government try to only transcribe the directives that fit with their views and scrap the others.
éric Masson
Ha, I get you, I just never encountered people willing to make themselves effectively bankrupt to avoid the RSI! I don't hate them that much Like many other countries in Europe, French Government try to only transcribe the directives that fit with their views and scrap the others.
éric Masson
Latest from me! Trying to send a package back to England with DHL France.
Book pickup online for Monday. Confirmed. No one shows up.
Tuesday receive phone call in the morning from DHL France wanting to know when I would like my package picked up. Now would be nice says I. They assure me they will be round between 1400 and 1700. No one shows
Cut to today. Another phone call this morning only I am in the shower at the time and my wife answers the phone. They refuse to discuss it with her and say they will phone back in an hour. They don't. We phone them and speak to a nice lady who explains we have phoned the wrong number and gives us the correct one. We phone them and the nice lady tells us she will speak to the appropriate person who phoned us originally and get them to phone us back. They don't. We phone once more and are transferred to someone who looks up our reference and confirms that she will book a pickup for today between 1400 and 1700. By 1600 no one has shown up, so we phone again and speak,to another nice lady who confirms that the nice man in the van will be round to pick up our package but is running a bit late, but not to worry, he will definitely come. He doesn't.
So here we are. A package that was supposed to be collected on Monday still hasn't been despite all the usual bullst assurances from this lot it will be. DHL France obviously operate on a different set of values to DHL worldwide. But then of course they would wouldn't they!
Book pickup online for Monday. Confirmed. No one shows up.
Tuesday receive phone call in the morning from DHL France wanting to know when I would like my package picked up. Now would be nice says I. They assure me they will be round between 1400 and 1700. No one shows
Cut to today. Another phone call this morning only I am in the shower at the time and my wife answers the phone. They refuse to discuss it with her and say they will phone back in an hour. They don't. We phone them and speak to a nice lady who explains we have phoned the wrong number and gives us the correct one. We phone them and the nice lady tells us she will speak to the appropriate person who phoned us originally and get them to phone us back. They don't. We phone once more and are transferred to someone who looks up our reference and confirms that she will book a pickup for today between 1400 and 1700. By 1600 no one has shown up, so we phone again and speak,to another nice lady who confirms that the nice man in the van will be round to pick up our package but is running a bit late, but not to worry, he will definitely come. He doesn't.
So here we are. A package that was supposed to be collected on Monday still hasn't been despite all the usual bulls
t assurances from this lot it will be. DHL France obviously operate on a different set of values to DHL worldwide. But then of course they would wouldn't they!Time for a little moan from me. Now I know the French are paranoid about losing their language, I know that. But in the uk we provide translations (into all sorts of languages!) in significant/official situations, but nowhere in France is there any concession to those of us who grapple with the language a bit. Even official letters/documents are often written in a tiny or unusual font which doesn't scan well, so google translate can't be used. Now this morning I've had a telephone message left that needs me to ring a number to confirm an ERDF appointment, but I have to ring back on one of the most complicated numbers I've ever heard. I've re-listened to the message about eight times now and still can't definitely get the number. Grrrrr.
Russwhitehouse said:
Latest from me! Trying to send a package back to England with DHL France.
Book pickup online for Monday. Confirmed. No one shows up.
Tuesday receive phone call in the morning from DHL France wanting to know when I would like my package picked up. Now would be nice says I. They assure me they will be round between 1400 and 1700. No one shows
Cut to today. Another phone call this morning only I am in the shower at the time and my wife answers the phone. They refuse to discuss it with her and say they will phone back in an hour. They don't. We phone them and speak to a nice lady who explains we have phoned the wrong number and gives us the correct one. We phone them and the nice lady tells us she will speak to the appropriate person who phoned us originally and get them to phone us back. They don't. We phone once more and are transferred to someone who looks up our reference and confirms that she will book a pickup for today between 1400 and 1700. By 1600 no one has shown up, so we phone again and speak,to another nice lady who confirms that the nice man in the van will be round to pick up our package but is running a bit late, but not to worry, he will definitely come. He doesn't.
So here we are. A package that was supposed to be collected on Monday still hasn't been despite all the usual bullst assurances from this lot it will be. DHL France obviously operate on a different set of values to DHL worldwide. But then of course they would wouldn't they!
I have had the same experience with DHL in France. Mind you, I tried to make an appointment with DHL, TNT and GLS to try to set up a contract for 200 parcels per day to be sent all over Europe. All three needed more than 5 phone calls each to get a reply. Only GLS actually gave a quote eventually with pricing very far removed from reality.Book pickup online for Monday. Confirmed. No one shows up.
Tuesday receive phone call in the morning from DHL France wanting to know when I would like my package picked up. Now would be nice says I. They assure me they will be round between 1400 and 1700. No one shows
Cut to today. Another phone call this morning only I am in the shower at the time and my wife answers the phone. They refuse to discuss it with her and say they will phone back in an hour. They don't. We phone them and speak to a nice lady who explains we have phoned the wrong number and gives us the correct one. We phone them and the nice lady tells us she will speak to the appropriate person who phoned us originally and get them to phone us back. They don't. We phone once more and are transferred to someone who looks up our reference and confirms that she will book a pickup for today between 1400 and 1700. By 1600 no one has shown up, so we phone again and speak,to another nice lady who confirms that the nice man in the van will be round to pick up our package but is running a bit late, but not to worry, he will definitely come. He doesn't.
So here we are. A package that was supposed to be collected on Monday still hasn't been despite all the usual bulls
t assurances from this lot it will be. DHL France obviously operate on a different set of values to DHL worldwide. But then of course they would wouldn't they!Ended up putting the warehouse in Germany. Contract with DHL and Hermes sorted in 2 days, at decent prices.
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