can't stand this place anymore
Discussion
Digga said:
When I offer the opinion, as often and freely do, that France is f
kED, with a capital F, people might be forgiven for thinking there is some personal motivation, that I 'hate' the French, or the country or the language, or the food, but no. I like all of those things, in general, and I find it very sad to see the way it is inexorably headed and, to an extent, with it also the EU. The wrong-headed, bureacratic, ant-business sentiment that is at the heart of the French political problem has critically infected the EU.
Digga, that's very finely put.kED, with a capital F, people might be forgiven for thinking there is some personal motivation, that I 'hate' the French, or the country or the language, or the food, but no. I like all of those things, in general, and I find it very sad to see the way it is inexorably headed and, to an extent, with it also the EU. The wrong-headed, bureacratic, ant-business sentiment that is at the heart of the French political problem has critically infected the EU.I have been following this thread for a while and wasn't going to contribute as I dearly love France and 'some' of the French. I have lived in France, been visiting for 25+ years, I visit every 6-8 weeks and am in a dilemma as I want to return, live in the Haute Savoie and take a role in Geneva.
With the above in mind, my extensive experience of France and the French, the dilemma is a difficult one. Both the UK and France are f
ked...the UK with its social breakdown, excessive over population and immense burden on the State's Coffers...France with her immensely frustrating bureaucracy, ridiculous taxation system and their laissez-faire attitude to so many things that are important. Here in the UK we do have a prodigious commercial drive for success which can be seen in many areas of life...what do the Frogs do? Critique any individual/team who make a success of their hard earned endeavors. In many ways both UK and French Governments are equally appalling, placing excessive burden on their respective populations...but Hollande's current policies are crippling the country further and wholly alienating many overseas investors; simply, the investors, of all types and financial size, know there's no incentive to plough revenues into France as most will be lost to taxation rather than remain within the targeted investment.When I lived in France, I took a call one day from a complete stranger, an Australian who was based in Nice and then Annecy; he was a motorcycle specialist. He called for a chat and asked if, as English speakers, we could go for a beer. Having never met the fellow before he soon came to the crux of his issue...he was fed up with France, the French attitude and the fact that the French had no get up and go...or as I put it, no bloody va-va-voom! The chap was genuinely, genuinely frustrated...had met a French girl whom he loved...but was beginning to hate France more and more, and really knew he should leave the country. Well, that was back in 2003 and since then the country has become much worse...which is such a great shame.
OP, and others, you have my sympathy. France is a wonderful country but suffers huge failings as a nation state. A nation state that is wholly dependent upon Brussels and the EU. A nation state of great diversity, geography, culture and history...but a nation state crippled by it's hypocritical cultural elite who have no directional knowledge of how to build a greater France for the future.
My sister lives in Fernay-Voltaire, but works in Geneva. Seems to work quite well, as she gets a Swiss bank account, which appears to be a good benefit.
Mother's side of the family are from Annecy, so I have a share in a family house a bit further round the lake. Love the place, and spent all my summer holidays there when growing up, although it can literally be murder with the tourists in the summer.
France, economically, is a lost cause. It's just a case of how much longer it can stagger on for and who will be in power when it goes pop, and given that the French way of life is angled towards living and family, not being in an office 50 hours a week, pop it will go.
Mother's side of the family are from Annecy, so I have a share in a family house a bit further round the lake. Love the place, and spent all my summer holidays there when growing up, although it can literally be murder with the tourists in the summer.
France, economically, is a lost cause. It's just a case of how much longer it can stagger on for and who will be in power when it goes pop, and given that the French way of life is angled towards living and family, not being in an office 50 hours a week, pop it will go.
psgcarey said:
Mother's side of the family are from Annecy, so I have a share in a family house a bit further round the lake. Love the place, and spent all my summer holidays there when growing up, although it can literally be murder with the tourists in the summer.
Yes, it's a great area. You've had a privileged childhood spending those many summers there. We still camp there every other summer. One puts up with the tourists, it's the traffic that's difficult...especially on the eastern side of the lake...Talloires, Menthon, Veyrier back to Annecy. Driller said:
I'm not big on politics but I don't think it's got anything to do with the EU. It's just fking France and their Latinesque anti-liberal communiste culture combined with apathy and rudeness.
They are, essentially, a third world, communist state.king France and their Latinesque anti-liberal communiste culture combined with apathy and rudeness.I have however noticed that your poor service issue was on a Wednesday. This is locally understandable; the French hate having to do work of Wednesdays - it cuts into two week-ends.....
Driller said:
Yet again greeted on the phone by a jobs worth salaried receptionist with no etiquette and who knows she doesn't have to make fking effort because she can't be fired because she's got the Prudhom on her side. And then passed to the technician who couldn't give a st about my problem and is more interested in accusing me of being the cause of the problem.
And they're dealing with a professional they could at least be a little bit polite with even if they're not interested in that so un-French thing called service.
Every company in every other country I call in relation to my work greets me with politeness and professionalism.
And I disagree about the scenery. I lived near the Cotswolds in the UK and believe me Il de France is no match in any way.
Sick and of rude people, people letting their dogs st on the pavement and leaving it for you to step in, sick of them calling themselves socialist and then driving straight at you on the road because it's me,me,me, I want to get there first on their cars which have one headlight broken and the other on full beam because "oh it doesn't matter does it, it's only a car."
Sick of the lack of excellence or of a desire to get there. Ridiculous bloody social taxes and employment law for my employees which changes every month. Working my arse off in conditions which mean instead of rolling in it I've just about keeping it together. And all the time being considered like some kind if criminal because I'm trying to build something and make a living.
Mediocrity, oh the fking mediocrity if it all.
Oh and Holland if you're listening, fk you the most.
by the sounds of things it seems to be like what the UK is turning into - only without the emphasis on familyking effort because she can't be fired because she's got the Prudhom on her side. And then passed to the technician who couldn't give a st about my problem and is more interested in accusing me of being the cause of the problem. And they're dealing with a professional they could at least be a little bit polite with even if they're not interested in that so un-French thing called service.
Every company in every other country I call in relation to my work greets me with politeness and professionalism.
And I disagree about the scenery. I lived near the Cotswolds in the UK and believe me Il de France is no match in any way.
Sick and of rude people, people letting their dogs s
t on the pavement and leaving it for you to step in, sick of them calling themselves socialist and then driving straight at you on the road because it's me,me,me, I want to get there first on their cars which have one headlight broken and the other on full beam because "oh it doesn't matter does it, it's only a car."Sick of the lack of excellence or of a desire to get there. Ridiculous bloody social taxes and employment law for my employees which changes every month. Working my arse off in conditions which mean instead of rolling in it I've just about keeping it together. And all the time being considered like some kind if criminal because I'm trying to build something and make a living.
Mediocrity, oh the f
king mediocrity if it all.Oh and Holland if you're listening, f
k you the most.Edited by Driller on Wednesday 5th November 17:04
Hey Driller, cheer up! Yes the administration and all their bureaucratic BS are hard work, but if you can avoid les weekends rouges you can be in the Alps in 6 hours, local bistros still serve good food and the French people are generally lovely (away from Paris!).
I left France in 2012 after living there for 14 years, and there is much that I miss. However, the root of your current frustration seems to be Beeg Government, and I have to admit that finally closing my French one man band consultancy company earlier this year was a great relief. No more URSSAF, RSI, Formation, Mutuelle, Retraite, over priced French accountant and the rest.
It's winter blues mate - damned the cost, go for a quick break to the sun and you will return refreshed.
I left France in 2012 after living there for 14 years, and there is much that I miss. However, the root of your current frustration seems to be Beeg Government, and I have to admit that finally closing my French one man band consultancy company earlier this year was a great relief. No more URSSAF, RSI, Formation, Mutuelle, Retraite, over priced French accountant and the rest.
It's winter blues mate - damned the cost, go for a quick break to the sun and you will return refreshed.
v8250 said:
Yes, it's a great area. You've had a privileged childhood spending those many summers there. We still camp there every other summer. One puts up with the tourists, it's the traffic that's difficult...especially on the eastern side of the lake...Talloires, Menthon, Veyrier back to Annecy.
Use the lake to avoid the traffic. There is a scheduled bus service on it. Remember Driller something I saw today :
"History is written by the victors , this is why the French have so few history books!"
Made me smile .
We have family in Brittany and I have to say I love the countryside and food. but hate the bureaucracy and the fact that stuff has got very expensive compared to what it used to be. So many good things but so many things that just seam too much trouble to sort.
"History is written by the victors , this is why the French have so few history books!"
Made me smile .
We have family in Brittany and I have to say I love the countryside and food. but hate the bureaucracy and the fact that stuff has got very expensive compared to what it used to be. So many good things but so many things that just seam too much trouble to sort.
psgcarey said:
I somehow did, yes, but it is a good thing.
If you want to get something done on the other hand.....
We cunjoured-up this saying when we first arrived in 2005.If you want to get something done on the other hand.....
The best thing about France is it is like UK before 1979 (Thatcher); The worst thing about France is that it is like UK before 1979. I think you have to have lived through both eras to understand how UK has changed.
I am back in England at the moment. The other day in Manchester, we were amazed by the number of young French (and Spanish) speaking people were here. No job prospects, no enterprise culture must drain the life out of young people in France.
Driller you have my sympathy.
I am in my 13th year in france as a self employed plasterer/builder. Its been lean at times but so was the UK and with more financial worry at that time.
I see people trying to start a business and struggle and fail.
But i also see some sucsess.
I take what i enjoy from France and dont worry about the frustrating bits.
I suppose i have carved out a nice life here with little worries.
One thing i have learned is that patience is essential when dealing with the French system.
I am in my 13th year in france as a self employed plasterer/builder. Its been lean at times but so was the UK and with more financial worry at that time.
I see people trying to start a business and struggle and fail.
But i also see some sucsess.
I take what i enjoy from France and dont worry about the frustrating bits.
I suppose i have carved out a nice life here with little worries.
One thing i have learned is that patience is essential when dealing with the French system.
There is another side to it; the French economy being so stagnant and un-dynamic does leave gaps big enough for enterprising in-comers to drive a coach and horses through.
I spoke to a customer earlier in the year who'd moved out near Toulouse and started renting mini concrete crushing equipment (for recycling rubble into aggregate on site). Now admittedly, even in the UK, this is still new/niche, but he has almost zero comepetition, even from larger mobile crushing equipment and is doing very well.
He also told me about a British firm who expanded into the area erecting and hiring scaffolding. Amazingly - given it's ubiquity in the UK and (IMHO) safety critical nature for a lot of jobs - there was no local solution available. All work was being done with either mechanical plant - cherry pickers and access platforms - or with aluminium scaffolding towers.
I spoke to a customer earlier in the year who'd moved out near Toulouse and started renting mini concrete crushing equipment (for recycling rubble into aggregate on site). Now admittedly, even in the UK, this is still new/niche, but he has almost zero comepetition, even from larger mobile crushing equipment and is doing very well.
He also told me about a British firm who expanded into the area erecting and hiring scaffolding. Amazingly - given it's ubiquity in the UK and (IMHO) safety critical nature for a lot of jobs - there was no local solution available. All work was being done with either mechanical plant - cherry pickers and access platforms - or with aluminium scaffolding towers.
All well and good, but any success is viewed by the authorities as profiteering and is very rapidly stamped out as you are swamped with demands for money. Coatisasions, impot et al. You would not be the first person to think they could drive a coach and horses through the economy and make a fortune. You can't because they simply won't let you. I's a dirty word.
Russwhitehouse said:
All well and good, but any success is viewed by the authorities as profiteering and is very rapidly stamped out as you are swamped with demands for money. Coatisasions, impot et al. You would not be the first person to think they could drive a coach and horses through the economy and make a fortune. You can't because they simply won't let you. I's a dirty word.
Yes, I do 'get' that aspect to.Best compromise is a sort of ex-pat guerilla style campaign to get in, make some money and then get out when the bureaucracy gets too much.
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