A disillusioned European :-(
Discussion
Dr Jekyll said:
If any of the Remain camp are genuinely curious about why some of us voted leave, you should watch 'Brexit, the Movie', widely available on youtube. You won't agree with it, it won't convert you, but at least you will understand where we are coming from. Or perhaps you won't bother and prefer ritually crying 'why oh why' while constructing a stereotype of bone headed xenophobes who stick pitchforks in babies.
Sorry, but I don't think this belongs in this thread. I absolutely accept the result (although I had hoped for a remain vote).The only negative feeling I have toward Brexit voters is directed at the idiots who have appeared in various media wailing at the result and claiming that they would have voted the other way if they had the chance again. I REALLY hope that these are a very small number of idiots/attention seekers.
Edited by sunbeam alpine on Sunday 26th June 13:39
Terryg4 said:
Just wanted to know whether anyone feels the same after the recent debacle.
We have been on France for 14 years but always felt we would go back to the UK after the children grew up.
It would seem that the UK is now not the place we left and certainly not the place to go back to. :-(
Has anyone thought about a French Passport?
Terry
European (not British)
The shock of Brexit still hasn't worn off,and coupled with all the upheavals i've endured in my family situation plus problems at work, it could mean applying for double nationality!We have been on France for 14 years but always felt we would go back to the UK after the children grew up.
It would seem that the UK is now not the place we left and certainly not the place to go back to. :-(
Has anyone thought about a French Passport?
Terry
European (not British)
It's incredible that so many Brits voted leave for emotional reasons rather than looking with a clear head at what being in the EU means. The EU isn't perfect, and their are real issues with certain policies, but quite frankly how can many people seriously believe that by pulling out of the EU Britain will be financially better off, and that suddenly £350 million is going to be spent on the NHS, or that overnight no more immigrants will be flooding into their neighborhoods. I have uni friends who seriously believed that suddenly their wages would rise, their children could get onto the housing ladder, and they could buy made in Britain goods in every shop after voting to leave the EU!!!!
For many Brexiters it wasn't a vote against EU membership but a protest vote against the political policies that have created an ever widening gap between the haves and the have nots in UK society. Unfortunately, the majority of those who voted for the leave campaign live in areas which have suffered most from years of neglect and austerity, believing that they'd been abandoned by the privileged elite in London/the SE! No one has been bothering about their very real problems so they voted to 'take back power from the EU elite'.
Maybe the UK will take advantage of it's newly voted self imposed isolationism and reinforce it's economic ties with the Commonwealth or even go it alone to take on everyone! Good luck!
Just one final comment. My dad has always voted Tory, believes in a strong Britain, believes in putting British interests first and came from a traditional working class, northern family. He voted Remain, since he remembered living through WW2, how peace and cooperation is better than conflict, how being in the EU brings more advantages than disadvantages, and can see around where he lives lots of EU funded re generation projects bringing economic life back to a withered region.
Edited by rosbif77 on Sunday 26th June 15:05
Dr Jekyll said:
If any of the Remain camp are genuinely curious about why some of us voted leave, you should watch 'Brexit, the Movie', widely available on youtube. You won't agree with it, it won't convert you, but at least you will understand where we are coming from. Or perhaps you won't bother and prefer ritually crying 'why oh why' while constructing a stereotype of bone headed xenophobes who stick pitchforks in babies.
For the record, i watched it some weeks ago. I also did a lot of other research into both sides of the argument in the lead up to the vote, hence the fact that i concluded, on balance, that we would be better off remaining in a reformed Europe with a voice around the table to promote the further reforms that are undoubtedly required, rather than jumping on the knee jerk bandwagon of the politics of isolationism, paranoia and predjudice, gift wrapped in patriotic clap trap to make it more palatable.Never mind. You can all attend the "independance day" bank holiday celebrations next year and roll out some Royals to dress up as the "Colonel in chief" of this and that, wave your flags at them as they clip clop up and down the Mall in their carriages before going home to bury your head in your hands and think "what the f
k have we done"Russwhitehouse said:
Dr Jekyll said:
If any of the Remain camp are genuinely curious about why some of us voted leave, you should watch 'Brexit, the Movie', widely available on youtube. You won't agree with it, it won't convert you, but at least you will understand where we are coming from. Or perhaps you won't bother and prefer ritually crying 'why oh why' while constructing a stereotype of bone headed xenophobes who stick pitchforks in babies.
For the record, i watched it some weeks ago. I also did a lot of other research into both sides of the argument in the lead up to the vote, hence the fact that i concluded, on balance, that we would be better off remaining in a reformed Europe with a voice around the table to promote the further reforms that are undoubtedly required, rather than jumping on the knee jerk bandwagon of the politics of isolationism, paranoia and predjudice, gift wrapped in patriotic clap trap to make it more palatable.rosbif77 said:
It wasn't a vote against EU membership but a protest vote against the political policies that have created an ever widening gap between the haves and the have nots in UK society. Unfortunately, the majority of those who voted for the leave campaign live in areas which have suffered most from years of neglect and austerity, believing that they'd been abandoned by the privileged elite in London/the SE!
Sadly, they voted against the one thing that still protects them from the worst of neoliberalism and rampant capitalism!
But they were promised golden rain and unicorn poo to fertilize their magic bean stalks. fSadly, they voted against the one thing that still protects them from the worst of neoliberalism and rampant capitalism!
king stupid, gullible, greedy, selfish bellends.I have a friend (using the term very loosely) who lives here in France, married to a Thai girl half his age (met, married and moved in within a few days) who has a string of failed marriages, deserted wives and abandoned children dotted round the globe. Every now and then he decides he's had enough of France, sells up and goes to Thailand, buys a new life there then 6 months later comes back here. His father is wealthy. He is crowing how happy he is his team won, he's the most feckless dick I know.
What bites me more than anything is I have worked hard and made sacrifices to save the money we used to buy our home here, again worked hard here to build a life and earn an income and it is all risked by giving this, the most irresponsible man I have ever met a vote that will impact the rest of my and every other British citizen's life.
Yep, and it swayed me in favour of Brexit until i did a bit more digging and weighed up the pros and cons of both arguments over the following weeks. EU is by no means ideal as it stands, in fact far from it, but you have to be "in it to win it" as the saying goes. Isolationism and blaming immigrants and eurocrats for the countries ills is not the answer and leads down a dangerous path that Europe has already trodden in the past.The extreme right are jumping up and down for joy right now. Ring any bells?
Russwhitehouse said:
Yep, and it swayed me in favour of Brexit until i did a bit more digging and weighed up the pros and cons of both arguments over the following weeks. EU is by no means ideal as it stands, in fact far from it, but you have to be "in it to win it" as the saying goes. Isolationism and blaming immigrants and eurocrats for the countries ills is not the answer and leads down a dangerous path that Europe has already trodden in the past.The extreme right are jumping up and down for joy right now. Ring any bells?
We've been 'in it' for 40 odd years and had no influence whatsoever. Any attempt to suggest that perhaps letting Greece join the Euro in contravention of the EU's own rules might be a bit dodgy, or that moving the European parliament to Strasbourg and back every few weeks might be an unnecessary expense, and we are called trouble makers and accused of wanting preferential treatment. Voting to stay in irrespective of what they do to us in future would hardly improve our negotiating position.Nobody is suggesting isolationism or blaming immigrants. The advantage of leaving is that is allows us to trade freely with the rest of the world while still trading with the EU.
It is my understanding that at some point in the future, we will have exactly the same status as Americans who live in France. That is if you have lived and worked here for at least 5 years, or reached retirement age, then you are entitled to the same privileges as French citizens.
I do expect that we will be required to have a resident's permit, unlike now.
When Article 50 is triggered, it is these issues that need to be resolved in the 2-year timeframe, not UK access to the single market. While attitudes have changed in the UK, it is hard to imagine that the 3-million EU citizens will be ejected from the UK, but if they were, then should we expect serious trouble.
Early retiring to France, without significant independent taxable income, will probably be very different, in the near future. But it will be at least 2-years before we know for certain.
My view is that nothing very substantial will affect our rights to continue to enjoy living in France.
I do expect that we will be required to have a resident's permit, unlike now.
When Article 50 is triggered, it is these issues that need to be resolved in the 2-year timeframe, not UK access to the single market. While attitudes have changed in the UK, it is hard to imagine that the 3-million EU citizens will be ejected from the UK, but if they were, then should we expect serious trouble.
Early retiring to France, without significant independent taxable income, will probably be very different, in the near future. But it will be at least 2-years before we know for certain.
My view is that nothing very substantial will affect our rights to continue to enjoy living in France.
We already do trade freely with the rest of the world. Presumably everyone has forgotten the visit by the Chinese President last year, off the back of which eight billion pounds worth of potential business was signed off. No inteferance from Europe.
The difference is now we will not be able to trade with Europe on the same terms. Anyone who thinks we will get a good deal from the EU is frankly naive in the extreme. They can't even if they wanted to because of the message that will give to the remaining countries. Britain out and not paying in, but got a great deal anyway? Well hell, we want out as well then! Just not going to happen.
The vast ammounts of EU funding and grants that Britain benefits from has been conveniently overlooked by the leavers and not publicised fully enough by the remainers. The vast expansion of the British film industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy in both cash terms and employment terms and it is in the enviable position of world leaders in the industry thanks in great part to inward investment and grants from the EU. That will stop and the industry will de camp back to the States where it came from. Block busters like Star Wars etc, currently made, along with just about every other big movie at Pinewood, will no longer be made here costing jobs and prosperity.
Britains contribution to the EU is only a fraction of GDP, despit the fact that it appears a collossal ammount to us mere mortals. The returns are also collossal. Yes there is waste that needs to be curbed in the EU, running away and pulling up the drawbridge will not achieve it.
The difference is now we will not be able to trade with Europe on the same terms. Anyone who thinks we will get a good deal from the EU is frankly naive in the extreme. They can't even if they wanted to because of the message that will give to the remaining countries. Britain out and not paying in, but got a great deal anyway? Well hell, we want out as well then! Just not going to happen.
The vast ammounts of EU funding and grants that Britain benefits from has been conveniently overlooked by the leavers and not publicised fully enough by the remainers. The vast expansion of the British film industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy in both cash terms and employment terms and it is in the enviable position of world leaders in the industry thanks in great part to inward investment and grants from the EU. That will stop and the industry will de camp back to the States where it came from. Block busters like Star Wars etc, currently made, along with just about every other big movie at Pinewood, will no longer be made here costing jobs and prosperity.
Britains contribution to the EU is only a fraction of GDP, despit the fact that it appears a collossal ammount to us mere mortals. The returns are also collossal. Yes there is waste that needs to be curbed in the EU, running away and pulling up the drawbridge will not achieve it.
I am with you Russ 100% on everything but we have lived here a while and know the French.
I am at a loss as to why the UK feel they have any bargaining power whatsoever.
You can picture the meeting .......
Ok we can sell you insurance
No you can 't as all your financial services have moved to Dublin and Frankfurt
We can sell you a Nissan
No you can't as they have just pulled out
We can sell you Cox's apples
Keep them we have golden delicious
And so it would go on
Have these people no idea? The UK Needs the EU more than the EU needs the UK
And any loss to the EU will be made up by the free trade deal they are about to sign with Australia.
Fu*king idiots
Terry
I am at a loss as to why the UK feel they have any bargaining power whatsoever.
You can picture the meeting .......
Ok we can sell you insurance
No you can 't as all your financial services have moved to Dublin and Frankfurt
We can sell you a Nissan
No you can't as they have just pulled out
We can sell you Cox's apples
Keep them we have golden delicious
And so it would go on
Have these people no idea? The UK Needs the EU more than the EU needs the UK
And any loss to the EU will be made up by the free trade deal they are about to sign with Australia.
Fu*king idiots
Terry
Russwhitehouse said:
We already do trade freely with the rest of the world. Presumably everyone has forgotten the visit by the Chinese President last year, off the back of which eight billion pounds worth of potential business was signed off. No inteferance from Europe.
The difference is now we will not be able to trade with Europe on the same terms. Anyone who thinks we will get a good deal from the EU is frankly naive in the extreme. They can't even if they wanted to because of the message that will give to the remaining countries. Britain out and not paying in, but got a great deal anyway? Well hell, we want out as well then! Just not going to happen.
The vast ammounts of EU funding and grants that Britain benefits from has been conveniently overlooked by the leavers and not publicised fully enough by the remainers. The vast expansion of the British film industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy in both cash terms and employment terms and it is in the enviable position of world leaders in the industry thanks in great part to inward investment and grants from the EU. That will stop and the industry will de camp back to the States where it came from. Block busters like Star Wars etc, currently made, along with just about every other big movie at Pinewood, will no longer be made here costing jobs and prosperity.
Britains contribution to the EU is only a fraction of GDP, despit the fact that it appears a collossal ammount to us mere mortals. The returns are also collossal. Yes there is waste that needs to be curbed in the EU, running away and pulling up the drawbridge will not achieve it.
The difference is that now we can arrange trade deals with the rest of the world, we can lift tariffs designed to protect EU farmers so import more cheaply.The difference is now we will not be able to trade with Europe on the same terms. Anyone who thinks we will get a good deal from the EU is frankly naive in the extreme. They can't even if they wanted to because of the message that will give to the remaining countries. Britain out and not paying in, but got a great deal anyway? Well hell, we want out as well then! Just not going to happen.
The vast ammounts of EU funding and grants that Britain benefits from has been conveniently overlooked by the leavers and not publicised fully enough by the remainers. The vast expansion of the British film industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy in both cash terms and employment terms and it is in the enviable position of world leaders in the industry thanks in great part to inward investment and grants from the EU. That will stop and the industry will de camp back to the States where it came from. Block busters like Star Wars etc, currently made, along with just about every other big movie at Pinewood, will no longer be made here costing jobs and prosperity.
Britains contribution to the EU is only a fraction of GDP, despit the fact that it appears a collossal ammount to us mere mortals. The returns are also collossal. Yes there is waste that needs to be curbed in the EU, running away and pulling up the drawbridge will not achieve it.
Why can't people understand that the EU 'grants' are just a portion of our contribution which the EU condescends to spend in the UK on they want to spend it on. How is deciding how to spend our money ourselves a bad thing?
Staying in the EU for 40 odd years hasn't curbed any EU waste has it? At least now it won't be our money they are wasting.
Incidentally it does seem rather odd that UK expats living in France and presumably all too familiar with the French attitude to all things British seem happy to let a French dominated EU kick us around.
Edited by Dr Jekyll on Sunday 26th June 17:44
Terryg4 said:
I am with you Russ 100% on everything but we have lived here a while and know the French.
I am at a loss as to why the UK feel they have any bargaining power whatsoever.
You can picture the meeting .......
Ok we can sell you insurance
No you can 't as all your financial services have moved to Dublin and Frankfurt
We can sell you a Nissan
No you can't as they have just pulled out
We can sell you Cox's apples
Keep them we have golden delicious
And so it would go on
Have these people no idea? The UK Needs the EU more than the EU needs the UK
And any loss to the EU will be made up by the free trade deal they are about to sign with Australia.
Fu*king idiots
Terry
That's not how trade deals work.I am at a loss as to why the UK feel they have any bargaining power whatsoever.
You can picture the meeting .......
Ok we can sell you insurance
No you can 't as all your financial services have moved to Dublin and Frankfurt
We can sell you a Nissan
No you can't as they have just pulled out
We can sell you Cox's apples
Keep them we have golden delicious
And so it would go on
Have these people no idea? The UK Needs the EU more than the EU needs the UK
And any loss to the EU will be made up by the free trade deal they are about to sign with Australia.
Fu*king idiots
Terry
They say:
We want to sell you BMWs VWs Skodas SEATS Audis Mercedes Fiats Ferraris Citroens Peugeots Renaults Airbuses and Golden Delicious and we'd really like it if you didn't charge us import tariffs.
We say:
We might be able to come to an arrangement.
Dr Jekyll said:
That's not how trade deals work.
They say:
We want to sell you BMWs VWs Skodas SEATS Audis Mercedes Fiats Ferraris Citroens Peugeots Renaults Airbuses and Golden Delicious and we'd really like it if you didn't charge us import tariffs.
We say:
We might be able to come to an arrangement.
And if an arrangement can't be reached then what. We go back o building the Allegro They say:
We want to sell you BMWs VWs Skodas SEATS Audis Mercedes Fiats Ferraris Citroens Peugeots Renaults Airbuses and Golden Delicious and we'd really like it if you didn't charge us import tariffs.
We say:
We might be able to come to an arrangement.
crossy67 said:
Dr Jekyll said:
That's not how trade deals work.
They say:
We want to sell you BMWs VWs Skodas SEATS Audis Mercedes Fiats Ferraris Citroens Peugeots Renaults Airbuses and Golden Delicious and we'd really like it if you didn't charge us import tariffs.
We say:
We might be able to come to an arrangement.
And if an arrangement can't be reached then what. We go back o building the Allegro They say:
We want to sell you BMWs VWs Skodas SEATS Audis Mercedes Fiats Ferraris Citroens Peugeots Renaults Airbuses and Golden Delicious and we'd really like it if you didn't charge us import tariffs.
We say:
We might be able to come to an arrangement.
Dr Jekyll said:
Russwhitehouse said:
We already do trade freely with the rest of the world. Presumably everyone has forgotten the visit by the Chinese President last year, off the back of which eight billion pounds worth of potential business was signed off. No inteferance from Europe.
The difference is now we will not be able to trade with Europe on the same terms. Anyone who thinks we will get a good deal from the EU is frankly naive in the extreme. They can't even if they wanted to because of the message that will give to the remaining countries. Britain out and not paying in, but got a great deal anyway? Well hell, we want out as well then! Just not going to happen.
The vast ammounts of EU funding and grants that Britain benefits from has been conveniently overlooked by the leavers and not publicised fully enough by the remainers. The vast expansion of the British film industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy in both cash terms and employment terms and it is in the enviable position of world leaders in the industry thanks in great part to inward investment and grants from the EU. That will stop and the industry will de camp back to the States where it came from. Block busters like Star Wars etc, currently made, along with just about every other big movie at Pinewood, will no longer be made here costing jobs and prosperity.
Britains contribution to the EU is only a fraction of GDP, despit the fact that it appears a collossal ammount to us mere mortals. The returns are also collossal. Yes there is waste that needs to be curbed in the EU, running away and pulling up the drawbridge will not achieve it.
The difference is that now we can arrange trade deals with the rest of the world, we can lift tariffs designed to protect EU farmers so import more cheaply.The difference is now we will not be able to trade with Europe on the same terms. Anyone who thinks we will get a good deal from the EU is frankly naive in the extreme. They can't even if they wanted to because of the message that will give to the remaining countries. Britain out and not paying in, but got a great deal anyway? Well hell, we want out as well then! Just not going to happen.
The vast ammounts of EU funding and grants that Britain benefits from has been conveniently overlooked by the leavers and not publicised fully enough by the remainers. The vast expansion of the British film industry which is worth hundreds of millions to the economy in both cash terms and employment terms and it is in the enviable position of world leaders in the industry thanks in great part to inward investment and grants from the EU. That will stop and the industry will de camp back to the States where it came from. Block busters like Star Wars etc, currently made, along with just about every other big movie at Pinewood, will no longer be made here costing jobs and prosperity.
Britains contribution to the EU is only a fraction of GDP, despit the fact that it appears a collossal ammount to us mere mortals. The returns are also collossal. Yes there is waste that needs to be curbed in the EU, running away and pulling up the drawbridge will not achieve it.
Why can't people understand that the EU 'grants' are just a portion of our contribution which the EU condescends to spend in the UK on they want to spend it on. How is deciding how to spend our money ourselves a bad thing?
Staying in the EU for 40 odd years hasn't curbed any EU waste has it? At least now it won't be our money they are wasting.
Incidentally it does seem rather odd that UK expats living in France and presumably all too familiar with the French attitude to all things British seem happy to let a French dominated EU kick us around.
Edited by Dr Jekyll on Sunday 26th June 17:44
The whole leave campaign revolves around "mights" "ifs" "maybes" and "hopefullys". Interesting to see Gove and Johnson looking like a pair of startled rabbits in the headlights on the podium together once the full realisation of what they had unleashed sunk home. What they only ever expected to be a protest vote to aid Johnsons political ambitions has suddenly gone all the way and blown up in their rather startled faces. A picture of "oh s
t, they've only gone and done it the stupid bds, now what the fk are we going to do" Comedy gold. Russwhitehouse said:
Presumably you didn't read my opening paragraph reference the deals struck with China without EU interferance?
The whole leave campaign revolves around "mights" "ifs" "maybes" and "hopefullys". Interesting to see Gove and Johnson looking like a pair of startled rabbits in the headlights on the podium together once the full realisation of what they had unleashed sunk home. What they only ever expected to be a protest vote to aid Johnsons political ambitions has suddenly gone all the way and blown up in their rather startled faces. A picture of "oh st, they've only gone and done it the stupid bds, now what the fk are we going to do" Comedy gold.
Here speaketh the voice of the uber amateur psychologist.The whole leave campaign revolves around "mights" "ifs" "maybes" and "hopefullys". Interesting to see Gove and Johnson looking like a pair of startled rabbits in the headlights on the podium together once the full realisation of what they had unleashed sunk home. What they only ever expected to be a protest vote to aid Johnsons political ambitions has suddenly gone all the way and blown up in their rather startled faces. A picture of "oh s
t, they've only gone and done it the stupid bds, now what the fk are we going to do" Comedy gold. My ex wife's friend once told her she'd seen me and my face was like thunder. In reality, I was pissing myself laughing.
Are you a friend of my ex wife?
Russwhitehouse said:
Presumably you didn't read my opening paragraph reference the deals struck with China without EU interferance?
On the contrary, it's the EU that prevents us signing a trade agreement with China, that's the interference. The last I heard EU attempts to sign an agreement with China was held up due to issues with Italian tomatoes or some such. Not a problem we will have.Russwhitehouse said:
In a word. No. Thanks for your insightful contribution to what has otherwise been an insightful and robust debate. Perhaps you should consider sending your undoubtedly underwhelming CV to Boris. He will probably have a slot for you somewhere.
I assume said debate excludes your fastasy post to which I was referring?Gassing Station | France | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff