Is Stuttgart typical of German cities?
Discussion
I have only just managed to visit Germany for the first time in my life - Stuttgart.
The positives:
Everyone we met was polite, charming and tolerant of our appalling Germanglish language skills.
Service everywhere was fast and good.
The negatives:
Very, very depressing street scenes.
Appalling architecture.
A bit grubby. No worse than much of Britain, but I was expecting it to be pristine.
Restaurants few and far between. Street coffee / pretzel stands aplenty but we struggled to find cafes / restaurants in the centre.
Smoky! Everyone was smoking. Everywhere. The hotel reeked of it, taxi drivers reeked of it, the streets were smoky. It seemed that cigarettes and cigarette advertising were everywhere.
I understand obviously that Stuttgart was badly bombed during WW11, but it seems that they put it back together quickly and haven't invested since. Nor have they got round to finishing the outskirts, which in the October gloom looked like a dystopian nightmare in some areas.
Had I set my expectations unrealistically high? Or is Stuttgart not representative of German cities?
The positives:
Everyone we met was polite, charming and tolerant of our appalling Germanglish language skills.
Service everywhere was fast and good.
The negatives:
Very, very depressing street scenes.
Appalling architecture.
A bit grubby. No worse than much of Britain, but I was expecting it to be pristine.
Restaurants few and far between. Street coffee / pretzel stands aplenty but we struggled to find cafes / restaurants in the centre.
Smoky! Everyone was smoking. Everywhere. The hotel reeked of it, taxi drivers reeked of it, the streets were smoky. It seemed that cigarettes and cigarette advertising were everywhere.
I understand obviously that Stuttgart was badly bombed during WW11, but it seems that they put it back together quickly and haven't invested since. Nor have they got round to finishing the outskirts, which in the October gloom looked like a dystopian nightmare in some areas.
Had I set my expectations unrealistically high? Or is Stuttgart not representative of German cities?
You're right! Grubby industrial town... there are lots of other towns which probably match your image of the pristine german town, but Stuttgart was never one... Next time try somewhere else... Poeple here can give you good tips.....
IF in Baden Würtemmberg try Freiburg, Heidelberg, and others... avoid Mannheim (industrial dirty) and so on.-....
IF in Baden Würtemmberg try Freiburg, Heidelberg, and others... avoid Mannheim (industrial dirty) and so on.-....
13m said:
Had I set my expectations unrealistically high? Or is Stuttgart not representative of German cities?
It is one of the most affluent of German cities, home of Porsche,Bosch and Mercedes Benz and a host of other engineering companies.
I compare it to the Birmingham of Germany, lots of industry,
not many tourist sights. It's never really been a capital city, like
Munich or Berlin.
Lots of North Germany like the Ruhr area got much worse treatment in WW2.
For many German towns, the oldest building isn't as old as Paul McCartney.
Lots of post communist East Germany isn't as nice as the Ruhr.
Those commies struggled to build anything nice.
I can only suggest you explore and find the nice bits. I wouldn't recommend
Stuttgart, nice enough place though it is, as a *first* place to visit in Germany.
dcb said:
It is one of the most affluent of German cities, home of Porsche,
Bosch and Mercedes Benz and a host of other engineering companies.
Indeed, which is why I was surprised that it seemed so lacking in some areas.Bosch and Mercedes Benz and a host of other engineering companies.
The Porsche and Mercedes offices / museums were and exception. Fantastic architecture, pristine environs. But it a cab ride of a few hundred meters had us in much less impressive surroundings.
I think I might be guilty of having made too many assumptions about Germany. We spend a lot of time in Italy and meet a lot of Germans there (in fact we are often the only Brits). They usually seem very smart, polite and erudite. Not to mention demanding about the quality of their surroundings. I assumed that their homeland would reflect their holiday demeanour.
Perhaps also I was seeing German frugality first-hand. They are after all the strongest European economy and maybe that's because they don't spend money on prettying up their towns.
Stuttgart in general never was a georgeous place to begin with (expect in the posh areas in the outskirts),
but for the last years Germany is running a "zero new debts" policy which is wearing and tearing on the infrastructure,
short-termed if you ask me , it will cost more to rebuild things than to maintain them constantly.
Top priorities are elsewhere, in Stuttgart there will be 8 Billion € (up and counting) spent to relocate the main railway
station under ground Level, allowing the huge overground railway area to be sold for "city development" aka speculation.
Traffic was always difficult with the city located in a pan,
it will be a pain in the butt with all the roadworks and diversions for the next 10 years.
but for the last years Germany is running a "zero new debts" policy which is wearing and tearing on the infrastructure,
short-termed if you ask me , it will cost more to rebuild things than to maintain them constantly.
Top priorities are elsewhere, in Stuttgart there will be 8 Billion € (up and counting) spent to relocate the main railway
station under ground Level, allowing the huge overground railway area to be sold for "city development" aka speculation.
Traffic was always difficult with the city located in a pan,
it will be a pain in the butt with all the roadworks and diversions for the next 10 years.
Benni said:
Stuttgart in general never was a georgeous place to begin with (expect in the posh areas in the outskirts),
but for the last years Germany is running a "zero new debts" policy which is wearing and tearing on the infrastructure,
short-termed if you ask me , it will cost more to rebuild things than to maintain them constantly.
Top priorities are elsewhere, in Stuttgart there will be 8 Billion € (up and counting) spent to relocate the main railway
station under ground Level, allowing the huge overground railway area to be sold for "city development" aka speculation.
Traffic was always difficult with the city located in a pan,
it will be a pain in the butt with all the roadworks and diversions for the next 10 years.
There seemed to be a lot of road works going on in the centre this week.but for the last years Germany is running a "zero new debts" policy which is wearing and tearing on the infrastructure,
short-termed if you ask me , it will cost more to rebuild things than to maintain them constantly.
Top priorities are elsewhere, in Stuttgart there will be 8 Billion € (up and counting) spent to relocate the main railway
station under ground Level, allowing the huge overground railway area to be sold for "city development" aka speculation.
Traffic was always difficult with the city located in a pan,
it will be a pain in the butt with all the roadworks and diversions for the next 10 years.
We were at the Graf Zeppelin and the view outside our window was one of construction and road works. Oh and a poor Porsche Cayenne that managed to get crushed horribly by a lorry...
Are they planning to flatten that station opposite then? Whilst it is ugly, it's less ugly than most of the other local architecture.
Benni said:
So the existing station structure will remain. Positive I think, given that Stuttgart needs to cling on to anything that isn't post-war concrete nastiness.I must say that Stuttgart has piqued my interest in Germany and I am going to visit again soon. Berlin is quite easy from here, so I might give that a try.
As a brit living around stuttgart area since 2002, i can only say it is the pits, living in coventry was better...
The only reason i stay here is the job. Go 25kms away from stuttgart and youll find more interesting places nicer people and cleaner more pleasant areas. I dont go to stuttgart unless i really have to. I live 30kms away toward Ulm.
Stuttgart traffic is also the worst in all of Germany, andis getting worse. Even spreading to where i live now. It seems the germans are incapable of planning anything, even the preverbial p##s-up in a brewery. Still they pay the wages, get more holiday and perhaps a better pension. Health care is the pits, if privately insured, andgenerally too many ridiculous rules.
But back to stuttgart. Go there to visit the museums then leave to Karlsruhe, or Ulm, or down to Lake Constance.
The only reason i stay here is the job. Go 25kms away from stuttgart and youll find more interesting places nicer people and cleaner more pleasant areas. I dont go to stuttgart unless i really have to. I live 30kms away toward Ulm.
Stuttgart traffic is also the worst in all of Germany, andis getting worse. Even spreading to where i live now. It seems the germans are incapable of planning anything, even the preverbial p##s-up in a brewery. Still they pay the wages, get more holiday and perhaps a better pension. Health care is the pits, if privately insured, andgenerally too many ridiculous rules.
But back to stuttgart. Go there to visit the museums then leave to Karlsruhe, or Ulm, or down to Lake Constance.
C15 said:
As a brit living around stuttgart area since 2002, i can only say it is the pits, living in coventry was better...
The only reason i stay here is the job. Go 25kms away from stuttgart and youll find more interesting places nicer people and cleaner more pleasant areas. I dont go to stuttgart unless i really have to. I live 30kms away toward Ulm.
Stuttgart traffic is also the worst in all of Germany, andis getting worse. Even spreading to where i live now. It seems the germans are incapable of planning anything, even the preverbial p##s-up in a brewery. Still they pay the wages, get more holiday and perhaps a better pension. Health care is the pits, if privately insured, andgenerally too many ridiculous rules.
But back to stuttgart. Go there to visit the museums then leave to Karlsruhe, or Ulm, or down to Lake Constance.
You do make some valid points, but worse than Coventry? That's a bit harsh.The only reason i stay here is the job. Go 25kms away from stuttgart and youll find more interesting places nicer people and cleaner more pleasant areas. I dont go to stuttgart unless i really have to. I live 30kms away toward Ulm.
Stuttgart traffic is also the worst in all of Germany, andis getting worse. Even spreading to where i live now. It seems the germans are incapable of planning anything, even the preverbial p##s-up in a brewery. Still they pay the wages, get more holiday and perhaps a better pension. Health care is the pits, if privately insured, andgenerally too many ridiculous rules.
But back to stuttgart. Go there to visit the museums then leave to Karlsruhe, or Ulm, or down to Lake Constance.
You forgot to mention that they don't speak German very well in Stuttgart.
13m said:
I have only just managed to visit Germany for the first time in my life - Stuttgart.
The positives:
Everyone we met was polite, charming and tolerant of our appalling Germanglish language skills.
Service everywhere was fast and good.
The negatives:
Very, very depressing street scenes.
Appalling architecture.
A bit grubby. No worse than much of Britain, but I was expecting it to be pristine.
Restaurants few and far between. Street coffee / pretzel stands aplenty but we struggled to find cafes / restaurants in the centre.
Smoky! Everyone was smoking. Everywhere. The hotel reeked of it, taxi drivers reeked of it, the streets were smoky. It seemed that cigarettes and cigarette advertising were everywhere.
I understand obviously that Stuttgart was badly bombed during WW11, but it seems that they put it back together quickly and haven't invested since. Nor have they got round to finishing the outskirts, which in the October gloom looked like a dystopian nightmare in some areas.
Had I set my expectations unrealistically high? Or is Stuttgart not representative of German cities?
Stuttgart, as you mention, was bombed to dust. As were many cities. The scale of the destruction is difficult to comprehend unless you live here. Many cities in post-war Germany did not have money to rebuild what was destroyed, so things were hastily reassembled to serve a utilitarian purpose. Aesthetics aside, the rebuilding efforts were quite remarkable.The positives:
Everyone we met was polite, charming and tolerant of our appalling Germanglish language skills.
Service everywhere was fast and good.
The negatives:
Very, very depressing street scenes.
Appalling architecture.
A bit grubby. No worse than much of Britain, but I was expecting it to be pristine.
Restaurants few and far between. Street coffee / pretzel stands aplenty but we struggled to find cafes / restaurants in the centre.
Smoky! Everyone was smoking. Everywhere. The hotel reeked of it, taxi drivers reeked of it, the streets were smoky. It seemed that cigarettes and cigarette advertising were everywhere.
I understand obviously that Stuttgart was badly bombed during WW11, but it seems that they put it back together quickly and haven't invested since. Nor have they got round to finishing the outskirts, which in the October gloom looked like a dystopian nightmare in some areas.
Had I set my expectations unrealistically high? Or is Stuttgart not representative of German cities?
If you want the picturesque, you need to head farther south, or visit small towns in the countryside that escaped unscathed. The south is largely representative for the "spic and span" image.
Most bigger German cities look like that. And it is right, a lot of them were bombed in the Second Wotld War. After that people had to rebuild a whole country to pu it into an extreme. That leaded into the fact that it had to go fast.
At that time there were big shortages in living space, what also made the neighborhoods built in that time looking unifomed.
To give a figure: They had to get over 12 million refugees into work and under a roof that time. By a population of 50 milllion.
If you visit Berlin, you should visit the Holocaust Memorial and the Jewish Museum there. Then you know why this happened.
Greetings from Peine
wutschel
At that time there were big shortages in living space, what also made the neighborhoods built in that time looking unifomed.
To give a figure: They had to get over 12 million refugees into work and under a roof that time. By a population of 50 milllion.
If you visit Berlin, you should visit the Holocaust Memorial and the Jewish Museum there. Then you know why this happened.
Greetings from Peine
wutschel
cardigankid said:
Agree with all of the above - but it ain't as bad as you think. Roadworks were pretty chronic when we were there In September 15, picking up a new Boxster GTS as it happens. Have a meal in the Dinkel Acker Brauerei Restaurant. You will feel better.
It's a wonderful place, isn't it? (Dinkelaker). Fantastic, traditional food and great beers. Spent a lovely evening in there a couple of years ago, the night before visiting the Porsche factory.Gassing Station | Germany | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff