Anyone live in Germany?
Discussion
dan98 said:
If you don't mind a bit of commuting I'd say the clusters of districts around Cologne would give a decent chance of scoring a nice affordable apartment / house.
It's also a fairly upbeat area which is easy enough for foreigners to get accustomed.
“Affordable” depends a lot on which district you are in, as you say. It can even be different in the same building. We live in a reasonably large ground floor apartment in western Cologne with a garden, yet the third floor “penthouse” apartment is double the price per month.It's also a fairly upbeat area which is easy enough for foreigners to get accustomed.
If searching for an apartment be prepared for very stiff and expansive competition, the market is fierce and can often come down to who the renter likes the most!
We live in the most s/westerly corner with CH being only 5km away and the F border about 7km opposite Basel. Thus prices are high...
Plenty of small villages where you have to have a car..... Houses/flats are dear here, expect to pay around €1500-2000 for a flat with 80-100m². Pets are often a no-no!!!
Often flats are being taken up by government agencies here to house Ukranian refugees or IIs thus increasing the shortage..
As another PHer mentioned, get your employer to organise it for you, they might/will have more reason to get you somewhere decent!
Plenty of small villages where you have to have a car..... Houses/flats are dear here, expect to pay around €1500-2000 for a flat with 80-100m². Pets are often a no-no!!!
Often flats are being taken up by government agencies here to house Ukranian refugees or IIs thus increasing the shortage..
As another PHer mentioned, get your employer to organise it for you, they might/will have more reason to get you somewhere decent!
I moved to Germany (from Australia) in 2012 and it was one of the worst decisions I’ve ever made. It’s backwards here, and how they are considered technologically advanced beggars belief. If I wasn’t tied here by my child I’d have left. Happy to talk more about the (few) pros and (countless) cons via PM or a phone call.
But, a couple of things; I have a great job earning really good money and the possibility of buying a flat or house in a city of some 300,000 people is nearly impossible; housing prices are still outlandishly high, and now interest rates are on the up the borrowing power has all but gone.
Everything is posted to you. You have to pay most bills directly from your bank account, not on the spot with a debit or credit card. Ludicrous.
It’s becoming very expensive to buy groceries, obtain services, and go out.
Weather between October and April is garbage (but as an Australian I should’ve been better prepared for that).
Autobahns with no restrictions are cool but the driving standard of most is so bad you need to keep your wits about you constantly. In the cities it’s far worse. At least they aren’t aggressive.
Germans are generally absolute tightaṟses. They’ll sell their stuff at the highest price imaginable, and expect to buy your stuff at bottom dollar. Yes, sure people will say that about other countries but in Oz it was never so bad.
The good? Crime is very low, at least in my city of Karlsruhe. I’d gladly let my daughter play at a playground and not fear having her abducted or worse. I wouldn’t do that in Australia.
I bought a cheap M3 in the UK in 2015, but thanks to Brexit that would’ve been a bad idea.
Unless you truly hate where you live now, don’t do it.
But, a couple of things; I have a great job earning really good money and the possibility of buying a flat or house in a city of some 300,000 people is nearly impossible; housing prices are still outlandishly high, and now interest rates are on the up the borrowing power has all but gone.
Everything is posted to you. You have to pay most bills directly from your bank account, not on the spot with a debit or credit card. Ludicrous.
It’s becoming very expensive to buy groceries, obtain services, and go out.
Weather between October and April is garbage (but as an Australian I should’ve been better prepared for that).
Autobahns with no restrictions are cool but the driving standard of most is so bad you need to keep your wits about you constantly. In the cities it’s far worse. At least they aren’t aggressive.
Germans are generally absolute tightaṟses. They’ll sell their stuff at the highest price imaginable, and expect to buy your stuff at bottom dollar. Yes, sure people will say that about other countries but in Oz it was never so bad.
The good? Crime is very low, at least in my city of Karlsruhe. I’d gladly let my daughter play at a playground and not fear having her abducted or worse. I wouldn’t do that in Australia.
I bought a cheap M3 in the UK in 2015, but thanks to Brexit that would’ve been a bad idea.
Unless you truly hate where you live now, don’t do it.
Nunga said:
Everything is posted to you. You have to pay most bills directly from your bank account, not on the spot with a debit or credit card. Ludicrous.
I couldn't even get a SIM card for my phone until I had set up a bank account, so they could start tapping it for the bills. Pretty much any of the other 40+ countries I have lived in or visited, I can get a SIM card at the airport on my way out of the customs hall so I am good to go. Not in Germany.mko9 said:
I couldn't even get a SIM card for my phone until I had set up a bank account, so they could start tapping it for the bills. Pretty much any of the other 40+ countries I have lived in or visited, I can get a SIM card at the airport on my way out of the customs hall so I am good to go. Not in Germany.
mko9.. SIM cards (pay as you go) are available at every Aldi/Lidl or phone store and no bank account necessary!!!. You pays your dues and when it runs out go to a Post Office or a bank and pay the next amount.....Nunga said:
Everything is posted to you. You have to pay most bills directly from your bank account, not on the spot with a debit or credit card. Ludicrous.
Nunga, the reason why is actually very simple. Firstly using a CC costs the vendor money, bank transfer doesn't....Secondly, as you've probably realised Germany is (over) organised... You have to register with the Alien Agency (Ausländeramt), in other words "be of fixed abode" and then and only then can you open an account. This ensures you are whom you are supposed to be and not some stranger ready to do a "midnight flit". This (almost) ensures payment, or that you can be chased for it, and thus more security for the vendor/supplier.
It took me a time to "get" this here but it's actually quite normal. Would you extend credit to someone whose ID is unproven?!?!
JMGS4 said:
mko9 said:
I couldn't even get a SIM card for my phone until I had set up a bank account, so they could start tapping it for the bills. Pretty much any of the other 40+ countries I have lived in or visited, I can get a SIM card at the airport on my way out of the customs hall so I am good to go. Not in Germany.
mko9.. SIM cards (pay as you go) are available at every Aldi/Lidl or phone store and no bank account necessary!!!. You pays your dues and when it runs out go to a Post Office or a bank and pay the next amount.....JMGS4 said:
Nunga said:
Everything is posted to you. You have to pay most bills directly from your bank account, not on the spot with a debit or credit card. Ludicrous.
Nunga, the reason why is actually very simple. Firstly using a CC costs the vendor money, bank transfer doesn't....Secondly, as you've probably realised Germany is (over) organised... You have to register with the Alien Agency (Ausländeramt), in other words "be of fixed abode" and then and only then can you open an account. This ensures you are whom you are supposed to be and not some stranger ready to do a "midnight flit". This (almost) ensures payment, or that you can be chased for it, and thus more security for the vendor/supplier.
It took me a time to "get" this here but it's actually quite normal. Would you extend credit to someone whose ID is unproven?!?!
German efficiency is a myth and if you’re trying to say otherwise you’ve lived here too long. This “midnight flit” excuse totally misses the point I made. Being an Ausländer has absolutely nothing to do with the obsession of using cash and/or EC-Karte (debit card for you non-Germans).
JMGS4 said:
mko9.. SIM cards (pay as you go) are available at every Aldi/Lidl or phone store and no bank account necessary!!!. You pays your dues and when it runs out go to a Post Office or a bank and pay the next amount.....
You do need your passport/id though to set up and account. Talking of beurocracy, couple of things that have shown how nutty Germany is (I've been in Frankfurt for about 6 months now and I'll update the thread with anecdotes)
1. One of the work vans, rear number plate went missing. In the UK, we could go to halfords and get a new one made.
In Germany, now this might be that its a commercial vehicle registered to the company, but company HQ (in say Berlin) have to go and buy the plate. They then have to take it somewhere else to get it stamped before taking it to the Police (?) For another stamp before it can be put on the car.
2. Now this might just be the German car pound yard f
king with the foreigners but the same van got towed and impounded. People go to get it back, pound say nope you need to go to the Police to get it released.
People go to the police to get it released/pay fine etc.
Police are like nope.
Police and pound get into abit of argy bargy on the phone.
Van gets released eventually after Police threatened pound to register the van as stolen and they'll come and arrest the person at the other end.
3. Uncle has lived in Germany for 30-40 years, married, kids and then divorced. Got himself a flat etc. One cousin said they wanted to live with him (mid teen), other wanted to live with mum (younger teen). At h-hour, younger son wanted to live with dad. However, due to the younger son originally putting down mum as his choice, she received all the child welfare/maintenance money and he got none. She proceeded to piss it up the wall (I believe). Couldn't be changed either.
Fortunately I've not had to deal with this either though going through my own headache with public/private healthcare
Nunga said:
I think you’ve missed my point. I can go to a physiotherapist or doctor in Australia, show my health insurance card, and then pay the difference there and then, by almost any means possible. Here, in today’s 1974 Germany, I go to the doctor (often days or weeks after calling to see them), have to wait for a bill, receive the bill, pay the bill by direct bank transfer and, before my health insurance finally released an app, had to send my physiotherapist bill to them and wait for the claim to be deposited to my bank account.
With the case you mentioned above, couldn't agree more... mine is the same. However if you'd been insured non-private (AOK), you wouldn't have paid anything. That's one of the disadvantages of private medical cover here! Germany is certainly in the backwoods when it comes to digitalisation...Trash_panda said:
1. One of the work vans, rear number plate went missing. In the UK, we could go to halfords and get a new one made.
In Germany, now this might be that its a commercial vehicle registered to the company, but company HQ (in say Berlin) have to go and buy the plate. They then have to take it somewhere else to get it stamped before taking it to the Police (?) For another stamp before it can be put on the car.
True, this is because numberplates are considered an "amtliches Dokument" (official document), like ID cards... old system admitted, but it works. We don't have number plate cloning here as is rampant in GB!!!In Germany, now this might be that its a commercial vehicle registered to the company, but company HQ (in say Berlin) have to go and buy the plate. They then have to take it somewhere else to get it stamped before taking it to the Police (?) For another stamp before it can be put on the car.
JMGS4 said:
Nunga said:
I think you’ve missed my point. I can go to a physiotherapist or doctor in Australia, show my health insurance card, and then pay the difference there and then, by almost any means possible. Here, in today’s 1974 Germany, I go to the doctor (often days or weeks after calling to see them), have to wait for a bill, receive the bill, pay the bill by direct bank transfer and, before my health insurance finally released an app, had to send my physiotherapist bill to them and wait for the claim to be deposited to my bank account.
With the case you mentioned above, couldn't agree more... mine is the same. However if you'd been insured non-private (AOK), you wouldn't have paid anything. That's one of the disadvantages of private medical cover here! Germany is certainly in the backwoods when it comes to digitalisation...Nunga said:
German efficiency is a myth
This is certainly the case when it comes to some elements to day to day life.On the whole I’m pretty happy here, though it helps that the other half grew up here and knows how to circumvent a lot of it.
I found it difficult initially to get to grips with because I was used to the UK/US approach of aiming to make pretty much everything quick and easy. Applying for passports, changing phone contracts etc. I find lots of processes inefficient, unclear with more people and checks in the process than necessary.
I’ve done a little reading around the differences in business culture between Uk/US and Germany, and it’s pretty interesting (at least to me) where the differences lie and why.
My recent bugbears are
- Cash machine fees - €4.95 now for every cash withdrawal since my local bank branch closed.
- Everything is getting expensive, but this is happening everywhere I guess
- Housing market is also tough if you’re in a big city - but again same in most places nowadays, and still better than London.
Good stuff
- People are generally friendly and easy to get along with
- It’s a pretty easy place to live. Lots of cool things to do.
- It’s easy to get around. Always found it took a lot of effort to go on day trips in the uk
- And the obv. - great car culture, and a ton of great museums to visit (Stuttgart, Munich etc) - though I’ve completely failed to visit any of them so far!
True about German efficiency being a myth - it's laughably the opposite in many cases. Not even Germans themselves think that they're efficient (cue jokes about fax machines).
It's more about thoroughness - things are analysed, painfully considered, and then refined and refined until they arrive at a state of 'perfection'.
Unfortunately that perfection may or may not be efficient. But at least it will probably be perfectly logical...to a German.
It's more about thoroughness - things are analysed, painfully considered, and then refined and refined until they arrive at a state of 'perfection'.
Unfortunately that perfection may or may not be efficient. But at least it will probably be perfectly logical...to a German.
JMGS4 said:
mko9 said:
I couldn't even get a SIM card for my phone until I had set up a bank account, so they could start tapping it for the bills. Pretty much any of the other 40+ countries I have lived in or visited, I can get a SIM card at the airport on my way out of the customs hall so I am good to go. Not in Germany.
mko9.. SIM cards (pay as you go) are available at every Aldi/Lidl or phone store and no bank account necessary!!!. You pays your dues and when it runs out go to a Post Office or a bank and pay the next amount.....Trash_panda said:
You do need your passport/id though to set up and account.
Talking of beurocracy, couple of things that have shown how nutty Germany is (I've been in Frankfurt for about 6 months now and I'll update the thread with anecdotes)
1. One of the work vans, rear number plate went missing. In the UK, we could go to halfords and get a new one made.
In Germany, now this might be that its a commercial vehicle registered to the company, but company HQ (in say Berlin) have to go and buy the plate. They then have to take it somewhere else to get it stamped before taking it to the Police (?) For another stamp before it can be put on the car.
To be fair, the rear plate has the registration and inspection stickers on it. It would have been far less of an issue if the front plate had fallen off somewhere.Talking of beurocracy, couple of things that have shown how nutty Germany is (I've been in Frankfurt for about 6 months now and I'll update the thread with anecdotes)
1. One of the work vans, rear number plate went missing. In the UK, we could go to halfords and get a new one made.
In Germany, now this might be that its a commercial vehicle registered to the company, but company HQ (in say Berlin) have to go and buy the plate. They then have to take it somewhere else to get it stamped before taking it to the Police (?) For another stamp before it can be put on the car.
I have always found it odd that in the UK you could potentially make your own license plate in your shed. Everywhere else I have had a car the plate is given to you by the State.
Nunga said:
You can add being talked into private healthcare to the negative list, especially when it’s impossible to change to public unless your income drops below a certain threshold (meaning I’ll likely be privately insured for life!!! confused: )
It's only an issue if you intend to retire there and live permanently. A non EU citizen can get private for 160 euros (320 without employers contribution) vs public with aok at around 400-500.And you can't have both like you can in the UK, one or the other.
My current issue is (bit of my doing as dragged heels) is that despite paying aok money for the time I've been here. I slipped through the paper work crack and never signed a document.
Aok are now saying that there's no record of me in the system (true) but they've been happy to take my money.
However, I might be potentially getting 6 months of contributions back from them.
I also can't take out global private healthcare from the uk as apparently it doesn't cover public a&e either. I guess this could be a European thing?
Some more weird and wonderful 'cultural' differences;
Food shopping or choice, might just be me going to rewe and I know hit are bigger and have more choice (sometimes) but the types and choice of food available to the German is alot less than the average UK supermarket. Took my girlfriend (austrian) food shopping in sainsburys (romantic I know) and it was kinda like the scene from hurt locker as she looked at the double aisle of cereal
Food is fking expensive here. Unless you buy bio (free range), the meats meant to be poor quality (going by rumour) from the supermarket. However this is frankfurt so for those not in the know, think canary wharf and it being the financial city.
There's no tesco meal deals or we've not found them. A star bucks hit chocolate in the city centre is about 9 euros so not sure what it's like in Central London for comparison as I tend to stay away from these types.
You can't buy pain killers at a supermarket either, gotta go to the chemist to get them. You might be able to get them at the pop up type off licenses but I don't know.
Another oddity, Britain has fully embraced the self scan check out, here it's no such thing with only dm (think superdrug or boots equivalent but without the perfume) having them.
It seems its a competition for the check out staff to whizz your shut through as quickly as possible without giving you a chance to pack. Then once they are finished, everyone behind you glares as you struggle to pack and pay. If you pay before packing, the next person's shopping joining yours unless they've got a splitter. So you end up queing sometimes for fking ages whilst people at the front struggle all because they don't want to embrace technology
Food shopping or choice, might just be me going to rewe and I know hit are bigger and have more choice (sometimes) but the types and choice of food available to the German is alot less than the average UK supermarket. Took my girlfriend (austrian) food shopping in sainsburys (romantic I know) and it was kinda like the scene from hurt locker as she looked at the double aisle of cereal
Food is f
king expensive here. Unless you buy bio (free range), the meats meant to be poor quality (going by rumour) from the supermarket. However this is frankfurt so for those not in the know, think canary wharf and it being the financial city. There's no tesco meal deals or we've not found them. A star bucks hit chocolate in the city centre is about 9 euros so not sure what it's like in Central London for comparison as I tend to stay away from these types.
You can't buy pain killers at a supermarket either, gotta go to the chemist to get them. You might be able to get them at the pop up type off licenses but I don't know.
Another oddity, Britain has fully embraced the self scan check out, here it's no such thing with only dm (think superdrug or boots equivalent but without the perfume) having them.
It seems its a competition for the check out staff to whizz your shut through as quickly as possible without giving you a chance to pack. Then once they are finished, everyone behind you glares as you struggle to pack and pay. If you pay before packing, the next person's shopping joining yours unless they've got a splitter. So you end up queing sometimes for f
king ages whilst people at the front struggle all because they don't want to embrace technology Aldi is starting to integrate self-scanning (Decathlon has had them for some time too). I hate them, but since most supermarkets have only one register open, I’ll gladly use the self-scan options.
Both licence plates should carry a city or Landkreis stamp, but only the rear will display the HU with its expiry month and year. Registering cars is a bit of a pain here, but since I’ve now done it 5 or 6 times I’m building a reputation at my local department of transport/DMV/Zulassungstelle they seem to let me indulge in being the idiot Australian by helping me.
Both licence plates should carry a city or Landkreis stamp, but only the rear will display the HU with its expiry month and year. Registering cars is a bit of a pain here, but since I’ve now done it 5 or 6 times I’m building a reputation at my local department of transport/DMV/Zulassungstelle they seem to let me indulge in being the idiot Australian by helping me.
Ok nothing is perfect but I haven't had many of the problems mentioned here. Maybe I've been lucky and have naively surfed through life here.
I learnt the language (badly haha), had a house built, did well in my job, joined clubs and am active in running some of them, lots of interesting friends from a very wide range of professions, politicians, police, doctors, nurses, musicians, artists, builders, gas fitters, truck drivers. You get out of life what you put in where ever you live.
I learnt the language (badly haha), had a house built, did well in my job, joined clubs and am active in running some of them, lots of interesting friends from a very wide range of professions, politicians, police, doctors, nurses, musicians, artists, builders, gas fitters, truck drivers. You get out of life what you put in where ever you live.
My 6 month review of roads/driving
Roads, seems to be generally smooth and pot hole free but I've not really ventured far from a - work - a though so deepest darkest countryside might be different
They or the Americans seem to have embraced the ability to turn right (for us it'd be turn left) under a red (ok it's more complicated than that) which is great however in cities, if you get the green for turning right pedestrians also have green man on the same junction which creates a few things;
1. Ends up causing congestion as the car at the front can't proceed due to people on the crossing. Lights change and repeat the process. Then they wonder why air pollution is high in the cities
2. I almost, bout 5 minutes ago, got knocked off the lime scooter (great things for nipping about and they've learnt from America and retards just dumping them wherever - its not allowed as you've got to picture it now parked up)
3. I've almost knocked some old boy off his bike as he cycled up the inside of me as I went to turn right but more on German impatience later.
Generally you can tell who the non natives are as a pedestrian at the red man. If the roads are clear, in the UK people will cross the road under a red man. Germany this is forbidden and they must wait for the green man, even if the roads are empty.
As for the autobahn, lane discipline is in general so much better than the uk.
Yes some parts are unrestricted and it's not uncommon to see people tailgating each other at 100+ all wanting to be at the front of the queue. However, alot of these drivers seem to lack awareness as well and its not uncommon to see someone dive last second for an exit ramp. Exit ramp sign posts start about 1km from the actual junction. At the same time there's some proper thick fkers on the roads as they'll leave it to the last minute to get out of the exit lane.
There's lots of impatient drivers here and lots would rather cause a traffic jam than just wait and let traffic move freely. Ie they'd be stuck in the jam on the exit slip road and pull put just to leap frog 3 cars and tuck back in.
Or saw the aftermath of a t-junction slow speed bumper bender, rather than let the 2 cars unfk themselves and allow them to park up, people would drive between, preventing said cars from moving and in turn blocking junctions causing more congestion as they didn't want to wait 5 minutes.
Use of (or should I say lack of) is not just a BMW thing
Roads, seems to be generally smooth and pot hole free but I've not really ventured far from a - work - a though so deepest darkest countryside might be different
They or the Americans seem to have embraced the ability to turn right (for us it'd be turn left) under a red (ok it's more complicated than that) which is great however in cities, if you get the green for turning right pedestrians also have green man on the same junction which creates a few things;
1. Ends up causing congestion as the car at the front can't proceed due to people on the crossing. Lights change and repeat the process. Then they wonder why air pollution is high in the cities
2. I almost, bout 5 minutes ago, got knocked off the lime scooter (great things for nipping about and they've learnt from America and retards just dumping them wherever - its not allowed as you've got to picture it now parked up)
3. I've almost knocked some old boy off his bike as he cycled up the inside of me as I went to turn right but more on German impatience later.
Generally you can tell who the non natives are as a pedestrian at the red man. If the roads are clear, in the UK people will cross the road under a red man. Germany this is forbidden and they must wait for the green man, even if the roads are empty.
As for the autobahn, lane discipline is in general so much better than the uk.
Yes some parts are unrestricted and it's not uncommon to see people tailgating each other at 100+ all wanting to be at the front of the queue. However, alot of these drivers seem to lack awareness as well and its not uncommon to see someone dive last second for an exit ramp. Exit ramp sign posts start about 1km from the actual junction. At the same time there's some proper thick f
kers on the roads as they'll leave it to the last minute to get out of the exit lane. There's lots of impatient drivers here and lots would rather cause a traffic jam than just wait and let traffic move freely. Ie they'd be stuck in the jam on the exit slip road and pull put just to leap frog 3 cars and tuck back in.
Or saw the aftermath of a t-junction slow speed bumper bender, rather than let the 2 cars unf
k themselves and allow them to park up, people would drive between, preventing said cars from moving and in turn blocking junctions causing more congestion as they didn't want to wait 5 minutes. Use of (or should I say lack of) is not just a BMW thing
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