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pblake

Original Poster:

321 posts

91 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
I will start by saying I am only a fan and not involved in any way.
But here's the question. I spent yesterday at snetterton on a lovely sunny day for £10. The racing all day was close even the 3hour race changed lead on the last few laps. I was however one of the few spectators there,rom where we were it looked like the more racers than fans.
As this is cheap to watch what is going on.

Pints

14,702 posts

63 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
I've wondered this. I suspect it may have something to do with the marketing or advertising of the events.

Too often I find out about them only after they've been, and then forget about it the next year.

nice audi driver

53 posts

23 months

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Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
Pints said:
I've wondered this. I suspect it may have something to do with the marketing or advertising of the events.
This.

37chevy

531 posts

25 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
nice audi driver said:
This.
Also the support races usually suck apart from production cup, and they can't hold consistently good grids, come north of rockingham and you get 10 car races when there re 30 or so on the programme

williamp

11,270 posts

142 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
good racing yes but its not really glamarous and there arent any real "names" racing. If they had some pro drivers racing then this would increase the crowds. Or if top gear entered every race...
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s2t

261 posts

30 months

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Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
but more customer friendly with free entry to the pits/paddock during the race

TheArchitect

985 posts

48 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
I would attend more if it were easier to find out when they are. I probably haven't looked in the right places to find out about it though.

stephen300o

12,665 posts

97 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
It's seems kind of in the middle ground, not posh enough for the monied and expensive for the club racer.

hunter 66

417 posts

89 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
The cost of entry is very high for essentially club racing thus average grids leading to lower spectator appeal.
There are many costs in racing and some racers do not have the funds hence cut down on tyres or use friends to act as mechanics but the entry fees have to be met.
The circuits charge and thus entries go up about 30% on the year in Britcar hence less cars with resultant lower appeal.......... maybe the TG boys would help

Northern Munkee

4,036 posts

69 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
It's club racing, so it's never going to be well supported by spectators, look at all the club series on motor tv, now look at stands or spectator enclosures in the back of the camera shots - empty. Club motorsport is paid for by the competitors.

And UK national motorsport serves paying spectators very badly, Britcar treats them better than most by giving them access to the paddock and garages, and the grid for the 24. But once the race starts save for the p.a. its not very involving. I'd imagine kids would get bored, so you only get old men and anoraks attending.

If they (or anyone else) wants to serve spectators properly and I know they look enviously over the pond to Nascar, nationwide, etc then they need to let the spectators have similar access, and feel more involved, rather than looking through the fence, in terms of endurance racing, they should broadcast pit to car radio comms, race control, and provide one big diamond screen, in front of the main stand and live broadcast onboard, and pit lane cameras, and preferably a small OB production with audio on radio, and stream a webcast. that all costs money. And you'd need to keep ticket prices low, kids go free, and let the circuits hammer the spectators on the concession prices.

And then, maybe...

pblake

Original Poster:

321 posts

91 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
williamp said:
good racing yes but its not really glamarous and there arent any real "names" racing. If they had some pro drivers racing then this would increase the crowds. Or if top gear entered every race...
This weekend you had Michael Caine, Mike Jordan, Luke Hines plus Sarah and David Moore runing in a support race who are real future stars, to name but a few or do you expect F1 or current touring car drivers, yes it is more grass roots but that what makes it cheaper to go and watch but no less great racing.

pblake

Original Poster:

321 posts

91 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
Northern Munkee said:
It's club racing, so it's never going to be well supported by spectators, look at all the club series on motor tv, now look at stands or spectator enclosures in the back of the camera shots - empty. Club motorsport is paid for by the competitors.

And UK national motorsport serves paying spectators very badly, Britcar treats them better than most by giving them access to the paddock and garages, and the grid for the 24. But once the race starts save for the p.a. its not very involving. I'd imagine kids would get bored, so you only get old men and anoraks attending.

If they (or anyone else) wants to serve spectators properly and I know they look enviously over the pond to Nascar, nationwide, etc then they need to let the spectators have similar access, and feel more involved, rather than looking through the fence, in terms of endurance racing, they should broadcast pit to car radio comms, race control, and provide one big diamond screen, in front of the main stand and live broadcast onboard, and pit lane cameras, and preferably a small OB production with audio on radio, and stream a webcast. that all costs money. And you'd need to keep ticket prices low, kids go free, and let the circuits hammer the spectators on the concession prices.

And then, maybe...
That's sort of my point Britcar gives us the fans full access to the pits and drivers and i am sure that if the demand increased for live radio extra it could be provided but that is a chicken and egg situation.
Its just a shame that a lot of motorsport fans are missing out on great racing.

AJS-

10,016 posts

105 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
TV coverage.

Unfortunately motorsport is a one shot thing, and if a team and driver doesn't make it to F1 then they're an also ran, or even a failure. At least from a UK perspective.

I used to think the same about Champ Cars, then about FIA GT. Great racing, great cars, great spectacle, and yet fewer spectators than a Sunday League game or a minor county cricket match.

There's just not enough space on the major channels for two big motor racing series, and F1 has it all stitched up!

37chevy

531 posts

25 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
pblake said:
That's sort of my point Britcar gives us the fans full access to the pits and drivers and i am sure that if the demand increased for live radio extra it could be provided but that is a chicken and egg situation.
Its just a shame that a lot of motorsport fans are missing out on great racing.
Touring cars and British gt give you full access too, britcar is too disorganised for me, you don't get consistent grid numbers, the races are too long for most fans and the caliber of cars and drivers isn't up there with British gt. don't get me wrong the teams and drivers currently in the series are doing a great job, but it's just a club series.

If tucker got his rear end in gear, stopped coming up with crackpot ideas about v8 utes, Daytona prototypes and ex le mans racers with stock engines in, and concentrated on what he's got, combined the grids to give a larger field and reduced the races to 2 hours then he'd have a really good series on his hands

pblake

Original Poster:

321 posts

91 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
37chevy said:
Touring cars and British gt give you full access too, britcar is too disorganised for me, you don't get consistent grid numbers, the races are too long for most fans and the caliber of cars and drivers isn't up there with British gt. don't get me wrong the teams and drivers currently in the series are doing a great job, but it's just a club series.

If tucker got his rear end in gear, stopped coming up with crackpot ideas about v8 utes, Daytona prototypes and ex le mans racers with stock engines in, and concentrated on what he's got, combined the grids to give a larger field and reduced the races to 2 hours then he'd have a really good series on his hands
The three rounds of the BTCC we went to last year only offered a pit walk not full access to the pits. Gt is much better.

bravonovember

773 posts

45 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
You would think for club racing their would be no charge to get in, as the drivers cover the costs with the entry fee. Might help with attendance numbers.

thunderbelmont

2,896 posts

93 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
bravonovember said:
You would think for club racing their would be no charge to get in, as the drivers cover the costs with the entry fee. Might help with attendance numbers.
The circuits see spectators on "non-major events" as a hinderence. You (the viewing public) are not really wanted by them, because they have to provide security, concessions, etc.... just to feed the twenty six of you die-hards that go along an watch club motorsport.

If they changed their marketing ethos to fill the grandstands, put on racing that people wanted to see, then drivers wouldn't (shouldn't) be burdened with the circuit operating costs, but should have a share of the gate for their part in entertaining the paying public.

Only then will the sport command it's place in the media just the same way that a bunch of over paid jessies that kick a ball about once now then do.

Some of Mr Tuckers ideas may often sounds hair brained, but in many cases they are great ideas, just that they come at the wrong time. The V8Utes would be good, and the stock-block powered LMP type cars would also be good - IF they could get people to commit to them. The trouble is - people don't want to commit to it at this time.
He ran "V8 Supercars" - which had the support of the likes of Andy Rouse as an outlet for the stillborn SCV8 cars, among others - though Andy didn't turn up to any race meetings with cars....

I also agree that the Britcar open paddock/pits is very welcome. If you have sponsors, you have to meet your public!!


designndrive62

273 posts

26 months

[news] 
Sunday 13th May 2012 quote quote all
Organisers should look at BRISCA oval racing here in the uk for an idea of how to do it (please, no going round in circles jokes). I go regularly to coventry for the F1 stockcars and with great atmosphere and attendance from spectators. I think.im also right i saying there are no entry fees and they get paid to race depending in the number of entrants

Paul Dishman

2,058 posts

106 months

[news] 
Monday 14th May 2012 quote quote all
37chevy said:
Touring cars and British gt give you full access too, britcar is too disorganised for me, you don't get consistent grid numbers, the races are too long for most fans and the caliber of cars and drivers isn't up there with British gt. don't get me wrong the teams and drivers currently in the series are doing a great job, but it's just a club series.

If tucker got his rear end in gear, stopped coming up with crackpot ideas about v8 utes, Daytona prototypes and ex le mans racers with stock engines in, and concentrated on what he's got, combined the grids to give a larger field and reduced the races to 2 hours then he'd have a really good series on his hands
I'll declare an interest here- James Tucker is my brother-in-law and I raced in the early days of Britcar, but not recently.

Britcar have had combined grids in the past when numbers dropped away according to the prevailing economic circumstances of the times, but there was the problem of the disparity in speeds between the quickest and slowest cars.
Originally all the races were at National B level, but only the Production class is Nat B; Britcar main races and the 24 hour race are now National A. This was a ruling from the MSA and nothing to do with Britcar, but the split will be essential to continue to allow Nat B licence holders to race.

I think your comment about "crackpot ideas" is rather rude. Britcar itself was considered a crackpot idea by many in the motor racing establishment, but it took James to drive the idea of endurance racing forward when nobody else was interested. He was also prepared to put his money where his mouth is and build the whole thing from scratch. He's always looking for ways to expand it and get more people racing. This is why he's always coming up with new ideas, but if people don't step up and support him then nothing happens. You can't blame the chap for trying



Rude-boy

15,544 posts

102 months

[news] 
Monday 14th May 2012 quote quote all
Paul Dishman said:
This is why he's always coming up with new ideas, but if people don't step up and support him then nothing happens. You can't blame the chap for trying
Paul,

BiL comes up with lots of new ideas and all credit to him for that but some of them just don't have legs beyond the "Wouldn't it be great if..."

Britcar itself filled a void that was there for 3+ hour races for the well healed but not super rich racer and Muke and Derek with an old Mantis in the garage. James has managed to build on that but instead of focusing on what works and making it rock solid he has tried to put too many irons into too many fires. I don't blame the chap for trying but do feel that he could be a little more focused on what works, make that work day in day out and work on his other plans in the background.

A number of his ideas could well have legs but need to be nurtured a bit more before being unleashed on the World. V8Utes is a good one as you will note how successful the last trucks series in the UK was(n't) and how they were on a £4.50 and a bag of chips budget where as these are most certainly not.
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