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37chevy
531 posts
25 months
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Paul Dishman said: I'll declare an interest here- James Tucker is my brother-in-law and I raced in the early days of Britcar, but not recently.
Britcar have had combined grids in the past when numbers dropped away according to the prevailing economic circumstances of the times, but there was the problem of the disparity in speeds between the quickest and slowest cars.
Originally all the races were at National B level, but only the Production class is Nat B; Britcar main races and the 24 hour race are now National A. This was a ruling from the MSA and nothing to do with Britcar, but the split will be essential to continue to allow Nat B licence holders to race.
I think your comment about "crackpot ideas" is rather rude. Britcar itself was considered a crackpot idea by many in the motor racing establishment, but it took James to drive the idea of endurance racing forward when nobody else was interested. He was also prepared to put his money where his mouth is and build the whole thing from scratch. He's always looking for ways to expand it and get more people racing. This is why he's always coming up with new ideas, but if people don't step up and support him then nothing happens. You can't blame the chap for trying Hitler and Simon gillet had brilliant ideas but we know where that went! All I'm saying is does he actually consult any teams with his ideas before releasing them to the world, if not then its just dumb, and also a lot of those ideas have come in the last few years, we are always talking about the fact there are too many series out there at the moment, introducing more series is suicidal, and clearly isn't going to work. At the end of the day if he concentrated solely on and made sure the grid numbers were consistent throughout the year then he would have a cracking series. Other than the lending issues I see no reason the grids can't be combined, Christ if the nurburgring 24hr and silverstone 24hr can run with cars from minis to moslers then any race can!
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Redlake27
1,708 posts
113 months
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You are never going to get BTCC crowds at anything other than the 24h party, but Britcar has a good package, some interesting cars and full grids. It's spectator levels are comparable with any other similar package of races.
Personally, I think James' ability to encourage new cars and try new ideas is one of the reasons he currently has bigger grids than the rival British GT and GT Cup championships.
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MMC Andy
475 posts
90 months
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Redlake27 said: Personally, I think James' ability to encourage new cars and try new ideas is one of the reasons he currently has bigger grids than the rival British GT and GT Cup championships. Don't confuse quantity with quality - I'm a fan of all three "Championships"; we run a car(s) in Britcar, we've sponsored the GT Cup for the past two seasons, and have also supported the SRO in recent months - but the quality of cars, teams, drivers and set-up in BGT this season is well in advance of Britcar. And the crowds at Oulton Park for the 1st round were testiment to this. Britcar is a fantastic brand and James has done tremendously well to get it to where it is, but thankfully now its found its niche in the market, and all three series can live side by side for the forseeable future. Like any genius, James seems to have 1 good idea to every 10 crackpot ones - but that 1 good idea often turns into a gem.
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Munter
23,701 posts
110 months
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TheArchitect said: I would attend more if it were easier to find out when they are. I probably haven't looked in the right places to find out about it though. Given their website says the next race is on the 12th May.... I have to agree. I occasionally go to Oulton to see a bit of racing, and wondered if they had a date there. But who knows. Are there any more races this year? Do they make the dates up as they go along through the year?
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Truckosaurus
3,529 posts
153 months
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Britcar is at Oulton Park on 23-24 June.
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Marc W
3,489 posts
80 months
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Munter
23,701 posts
110 months
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Marc W said:  Menu eh. If people are just going to invent random stuff like menu's how can the average web user be expected to know how to use them. Pah. (Possibly they might want to make the menu stand out a bit more...totally missed it. Thought the website was a bit restrictive....)
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Mark Benson
2,539 posts
138 months
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thunderbelmont said: bravonovember said: You would think for club racing their would be no charge to get in, as the drivers cover the costs with the entry fee. Might help with attendance numbers. The circuits see spectators on "non-major events" as a hinderence. You (the viewing public) are not really wanted by them, because they have to provide security, concessions, etc.... just to feed the twenty six of you die-hards that go along an watch club motorsport. If they changed their marketing ethos to fill the grandstands, put on racing that people wanted to see, then drivers wouldn't (shouldn't) be burdened with the circuit operating costs, but should have a share of the gate for their part in entertaining the paying public. Only then will the sport command it's place in the media just the same way that a bunch of over paid jessies that kick a ball about once now then do. I agree with this 100% - it's in no-one's interests to promote club racing. Circuit covers costs and makes a bit of profit from the hire and sees so few spectators at club events they decide it's not worth promoting their smaller events. Clubs don't see a share of the gate or a slice of the concession money so why spend money promoting their own events. Competitors stump up the cash as they're at the bottom of the pile. We have a lot to learn from our friends across the pond - but it would take an enterprising circuit owner to make their clubbie events more of a 'destination' for family entertainment in the same way that, for instance county shows or festivals have become. At the moment spectators get nothing but a windy bank and a portakabin to pee in at a lot of circuits, that's hardly going to encourage people to go along and watch, even if they follow F1 religiously on the TV (imagine if club events could see even a small percentage of those who took out Sky subscriptions this year to watch F1).
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Daston
3,451 posts
72 months
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We went to the 24hr race a couple of years back ok the weather was crap I mean really crap and there must have been 100 people there in total. On the plus side the access you got to the pits was amazing, just walk up to the back of the garage mid race be let in shown around etc! Got to see one of the Mosler teams pit stop from the front of their garage! Sadly I couldn't get the camera out and powered on in time 
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nsa
878 posts
97 months
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Northern Munkee said: It's club racing, so it's never going to be well supported by spectators, look at all the club series on motor tv, now look at stands or spectator enclosures in the back of the camera shots - empty. Club motorsport is paid for by the competitors.
And UK national motorsport serves paying spectators very badly, Britcar treats them better than most by giving them access to the paddock and garages, and the grid for the 24. But once the race starts save for the p.a. its not very involving. I'd imagine kids would get bored, so you only get old men and anoraks attending.
If they (or anyone else) wants to serve spectators properly and I know they look enviously over the pond to Nascar, nationwide, etc then they need to let the spectators have similar access, and feel more involved, rather than looking through the fence, in terms of endurance racing, they should broadcast pit to car radio comms, race control, and provide one big diamond screen, in front of the main stand and live broadcast onboard, and pit lane cameras, and preferably a small OB production with audio on radio, and stream a webcast. that all costs money. And you'd need to keep ticket prices low, kids go free, and let the circuits hammer the spectators on the concession prices.
And then, maybe... I agree with most of this. I went to the Silverstone 24hr last year and it suffers for lack of timing screens and TV coverage. Pit/car radio is a great idea.
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thechosenfamily
230 posts
24 months
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A perfect example of the up and down numbers on the grid was the "into the night" race at Brands Hatch at the tale end of last season.
I had really been looking forward to it especially the "faster" classes but as it got to a week before the race I took a look at the grids and I think there were only three cars in the top two classes racing and the rest of the field was very depleted with mostly adapted "road" cars. Hence I gave it a miss especially with indifferent weather conditions.
Endurance racing is an acquired taste for spectating and photography and if the field is thin then the spectacle is diminished considerably IMHO.
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With these feet
3,709 posts
84 months
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The Britcar 24 is normally oversubscribed. Why? Because the race is what most endurance drivers want.
The series itself seems difficult to police due to the broad spread of cars and their performance. Many drivers look at the other cars in their class and think "I dont stand a chance against that"
Still, I give it to Mr Tucker, he has tried to get more interest, though the thought of an old LMP car coming up behind a smart car does concern me a little....
The speed differentials are pretty big, especially with the likes of Shorty's Moslers and BB's Aquilla. All adds to the excitement I guess!
We did a full season and 2 24hr's with Britcar, there are quite a few other series out there GTcup, AMR GT4 etc that have taken potential customers away. Maybe they need to incorporate these and cut costs.
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General Bilko
263 posts
55 months
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pblake said: The racing all day was close even the 3hour race changed lead on the last few laps. How did you know this? I've watched Britcar at Snetterton a couple of years ago and have to say after 30 mins (max) I was bored. Largely because I couldn't see who was leading or who was lapped. Great cars but dull racing for a trackside spectator IMHO.
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teamHOLDENracing
4,819 posts
136 months
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General Bilko said: pblake said: The racing all day was close even the 3hour race changed lead on the last few laps. How did you know this? I've watched Britcar at Snetterton a couple of years ago and have to say after 30 mins (max) I was bored. Largely because I couldn't see who was leading or who was lapped. Great cars but dull racing for a trackside spectator IMHO. Endurance racing can be entralling to watch....but does require access to a timing screen to keep track of things. Advances in smartphone technology and live timing should really help in this regard (assuming you can get 3G at the circuit). If no 3G then wi-fi round the circuit would be a Godsend.
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freedman
4,075 posts
76 months
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AJS- said: TV coverage.
Britcar has coverage on Motors, trouble is its close to unwatchable Ther is nothing wrong with the racing but if you want anyone to watch it and then maybe come to a live race youve got no chance. I started watching the Donington highlights last night, but gave up after about 5 minutes Studio stuff was poor but tolerable, however the commentator was as bad as Ive ever listed too and the actual coverage so poor you'd be better off without any Of course some will say any publicity is good publicity, and I'm sure some of teh sponsors are pleased there is at least some exposure. However The presentation and execution were all 4th rate
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macgtech
607 posts
28 months
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In my mind it comes down to two things - marketing and the ability of the crowds to understand the race.
There are such a huge selection of cars over the production and the GT categories that there really is something for everyone. If there was a big push to get, for example, advertising for the events on all the online forums (think Lotus, Seat, VW, BMW etc etc..) imagine how many people you could easily drum up at these events - and this is just one simple idea. With regards to the caliber of drivers and cars, it would be fairly straightforward to have more information on both the Teams and the Drivers on the Website, which would give a bit more prestige and understanding of the whole thing.
Understanding the race is surely(!) a case of having a timescreen(s) available for spectators - although I am sure this isn't cheap!
On the subject of TV coverage, I think its a huge improvement this year - the one thing it is lacking is the standings at any one time, which makes it really hard to follow.
I think the Britcar team have done a great job in the two seasons we have been involved - its a great atmosphere at events and everyone is especially friendly and helpful, which is a huge plus point for everyone involved.
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courageous
131 posts
33 months
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Mark Benson said: I agree with this 100% - it's in no-one's interests to promote club racing.
Circuit covers costs and makes a bit of profit from the hire and sees so few spectators at club events they decide it's not worth promoting their smaller events. To give a concrete example - Last year at Donington the 4 hour joint race was supported by BOSS GP, the 70 odd strong Dutch supercars & near 100 MX5s Britcar rolled in on Friday morning to learn that the circuit had not sent out a single bit of press. If a circuit with the potential capture of Donington (close to several large towns) doesn't see fit to publisice Formula 1 cars then I think that speaks volumes
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Morcilman
75 posts
96 months
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Ill give my personal oppinion.
Britcar is a very entretaining racing, with 3 classes, there is allways a good battle somewere, but its mandatory a good info for the expectator.
Good info is by good commentary (we have the best) goot timing, as we have live timing available is ok, but fundamental that people can access easyly. Putting a link at the webpage of britcar and at the programe is a must.
Webpage. We are lakking one masivelly, its difficult even for us to find the info there, and i cant think of anybody thats going to follow a championship that do not use the official web. The immage for the championship is the web, and it can be used very well for promoting it.
Viral videos. We just to have Darrens fantastic videos, something to show and link in any web for any driver or fan. An easy way to do it is using the in car cameras of the racers. Youtube is a massive communicatin tool.
Radio comunications. Maybe interviews to drivers on the circuit commentary doring safetycars, or during the race. Not difficult technically.
Teaching the non expert what long distance is. Maybe duing a tutorial on race strategy n the proggram... Something that tells people what they have to look for.
Entertaining. Its maybe possible to sell taxi rides with roadcars before the race? Can be the Britcar drivers or any known driver. Simulators... Something to do between races.
Britcar is very good product, but need a better packaging. For the trained eye is very exiting, so we need to give people image of the championship and information!!!
Javier
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teamHOLDENracing
4,819 posts
136 months
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I think the main reason is that Mr Rodney Barrett has been absent and with such a giant of the sport missing there has been no focal point* for the general public. * When I say focal point, I mean something large enough to block out the sun, surrounded by a haze of cigar smoke  ....
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Racing Rod
1,333 posts
136 months
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Here we go, Holden is off again with the banter and the like, normally I would reply but I'm busy at present arranging a lunar eclipse 
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