VX220 Turbo v Elise...
Discussion
I've been reading these threads & it appears there is a lot of snobbery over badge status & over thinking. Everything people buy is subjective, cars are special in the sense you like it or you don't e.g. I love the look of the Ford ST; would I want to own 1, no, I'm not a Ford fan. I love the look of the Lotus, I do not like Rovers generally & dislike the engine, even though they have had a good pedigree in the past. All personal opinions based on my experiences with talking, working or using the vehicles in some form. When the VX220 arrived on the scene it was an exciting peace of news, why, because I have owned Vauxhall's since 1986; 7yrs a 1.8 GTE & 2.0 GSI 4x4 Cav for another 6 or 7yrs; the best of the bunch. In the mean time, kids & 20yrs later I had the opportunity to own another car of my choice with out considering any body else. The VX220 was my choice, the shear speed to weight, reliability & the bottle of a company to produce something they're not renowned for. Taking over where Lotus may have run out of ideas! After driving the VX220 I realise it is a major achievement, the weak point to me is the styling of the front bumper, it is lacking a little character. That is not enough to stop me owning it & enjoying it for what it is, a little pocket rocket. The ideas to evolve the bumper styling, unfortunately, the price of styling is a little pricey & need to save a little more, while I'm enjoying the drive.
K5h5w4 I think it would be fair to say you're a bit of a Vauxhall fan. I'm looking at the two cars and the value of the Vauxhall definitely appeals. However, I do prefer the styling of the Lotus and I happen to like the K series engine. Having said that I will admit that I have a lot of experience of that engine and am probably as biased about them as you are about Vauxhall.
One thing no one has mentioned, which is probably a good thing, is the Top Gear Cool Wall. "What do you drive?" " A Lotus Elise." "What do you drive?" "Vauxhall VX220." Even today it is still a problem for Vauxhall despite them making some very good cars.
One thing no one has mentioned, which is probably a good thing, is the Top Gear Cool Wall. "What do you drive?" " A Lotus Elise." "What do you drive?" "Vauxhall VX220." Even today it is still a problem for Vauxhall despite them making some very good cars.
Captain Muppet said:
otolith said:
Apart from the donor engine and the badge, there isn't much GM input in the VX220. It's a Lotus in all but name.
Didn't Lotus design the engine for GM?Lotus owes a lot to GM for the S2...
the Toyota engined S2's are very heavily based on the VX work, (and to a lesser extent the Rover S2's).
Lotus raided the GM parts bin for a lot of the Elise, not just the engine and box for the VX, but the hubs/bearings, steering column, ball joints, etc. etc.
As for the VX engines, (both the Z22SE and the Turbo's Z20LET) have their origins on the dim and distant, the Z20LET is the old cast iron block with a CosCast head (Cosworth), the Z22SE is the successor to the X20XEV that had a Lotus worked head on it (this was when they first called it an EcoTech engine), most of this work was to get the engine fit for the then new emissions regs (Power wise it was a backwards step from the Cosworth head)
Scuffers said:
Lotus owes a lot to GM for the S2...
In the sense that by paying for the VX220 they funded the further development of the Elise platform, absolutely. GM paying for it doesn't make the VX anything other than a Vauxhall badged Lotus though, and having GM bits in it makes it no more a Vauxhall than the engine makes the S1 a Rover or the R a Toyota or the gearbox makes the Esprit a Renault.otolith said:
Scuffers said:
Lotus owes a lot to GM for the S2...
In the sense that by paying for the VX220 they funded the further development of the Elise platform, absolutely. GM paying for it doesn't make the VX anything other than a Vauxhall badged Lotus though, and having GM bits in it makes it no more a Vauxhall than the engine makes the S1 a Rover or the R a Toyota or the gearbox makes the Esprit a Renault.My point was that their parts input was more than just the engine, quite aside from the money.
djroadboy said:
not sure that VXT is actually 400hp, if it were, it would be faster in a straight line...However, it does illustrate the issue for the VX Turbo is weight (something the 2.2 NA one is not burdened with)
I've been lucky enough to own a NA VX220 and a couple of Elise (currently an S2 111s).
The VX is a cracking car and it certainly wont disappoint, the Elise is somehow more than the some of its parts however and I find everything about driving it far more enjoyable (steering, braking, engine noise - general tootling about).
Take both for a spin. But if you do buy the VX and aren't a fan of the looks you just might look at it on your driveway and wish you'd bought the (imo) better styled S2.
The VX is a cracking car and it certainly wont disappoint, the Elise is somehow more than the some of its parts however and I find everything about driving it far more enjoyable (steering, braking, engine noise - general tootling about).
Take both for a spin. But if you do buy the VX and aren't a fan of the looks you just might look at it on your driveway and wish you'd bought the (imo) better styled S2.
Lione1 Richie said:
I've been lucky enough to own a NA VX220 and a couple of Elise (currently an S2 111s).
The VX is a cracking car and it certainly wont disappoint, the Elise is somehow more than the some of its parts however and I find everything about driving it far more enjoyable (steering, braking, engine noise - general tootling about).
Take both for a spin. But if you do buy the VX and aren't a fan of the looks you just might look at it on your driveway and wish you'd bought the (imo) better styled S2.
You have somehow contradicted yourself with the 'won't disappoint' cliche, then saying it somehow did. And yes it can. The VX is a cracking car and it certainly wont disappoint, the Elise is somehow more than the some of its parts however and I find everything about driving it far more enjoyable (steering, braking, engine noise - general tootling about).
Take both for a spin. But if you do buy the VX and aren't a fan of the looks you just might look at it on your driveway and wish you'd bought the (imo) better styled S2.
I only drove the NA and primarily didn't like the character of the engine as opposed to the K-series which felt so keen and lively. Mind you, the turbo has the obvious power advantage and tunability at a very attractive price.
(Btw, nice car history)
Edited by chris7676 on Wednesday 22 May 16:31
Scuffers said:
djroadboy said:
not sure that VXT is actually 400hp, if it were, it would be faster in a straight line...However, it does illustrate the issue for the VX Turbo is weight (something the 2.2 NA one is not burdened with)
Are NA 2.2 VXs really much lighter? They don't feel much lighter having driven a few. The 2.2 lump is still pretty heavy isn't it?
Dan
MagicalTrevor said:
Whilst I appreciate how good the VX is, the simple fact of the matter is:
That just about sums it up to me too.- I wanted a 'Lotus' not a 'Vauxhall' - that's badge snobbery and I don't care who knows about it
- I prefer the look of the Elise
- I couldn't give two hoots which car was 'better' (see above)
MagicalTrevor said:
Whilst I appreciate how good the VX is, the simple fact of the matter is:
Sums it up for me as well.- I wanted a 'Lotus' not a 'Vauxhall' - that's badge snobbery and I don't care who knows about it
- I prefer the look of the Elise
- I couldn't give two hoots which car was 'better' (see above)
I have a S2 111s (in yellow) and my mate has a VX220 NA (in red). We do quite a few runs together and there's nothing to choose between the cars in the real word as far as performance goes.
I just don't like the look of the VX, end of. It looks sort of "un-finished" in a strange way, a bit kit-car-ish.
The Lotus seems to get all the attention when we are parked up as well, especially in France and Spain where they seem to love it. It's strange to see people posing for photos with the Elise and
ignoring the VX.
Anyway that's what I think, I also like 103E Ford Populars as well, so what do I know.
I'm in a slightly odd situation of owning both an Elise and a vx at the moment (profile link should explain) I have a rover Elise and it's great fun probably a tad more playful than the VX but the vx rides a lot better and has more refined suspension for road driving.
Oddly enough I find the reverse true of the attention factor. Everyone knows what an Elise is but the vx always attracts more interest from people being a rarer sight. However people I know always say the Elise is prettier. I believe the reduced weight and 16 inch front wheels on the Elise account for a slightly dartier drive.
Oddly enough I find the reverse true of the attention factor. Everyone knows what an Elise is but the vx always attracts more interest from people being a rarer sight. However people I know always say the Elise is prettier. I believe the reduced weight and 16 inch front wheels on the Elise account for a slightly dartier drive.
chris7676 said:
You have somehow contradicted yourself with the 'won't disappoint' cliche, then saying it somehow did. And yes it can.
I only drove the NA and primarily didn't like the character of the engine as opposed to the K-series which felt so keen and lively. Mind you, the turbo has the obvious power advantage and tunability at a very attractive price.
(Btw, nice car history)
You are right Chris, I did somewhat contradict myself! I only drove the NA and primarily didn't like the character of the engine as opposed to the K-series which felt so keen and lively. Mind you, the turbo has the obvious power advantage and tunability at a very attractive price.
(Btw, nice car history)
Edited by chris7676 on Wednesday 22 May 16:31
I think what occurred with me was that the VX220 eventually disappointed over time, where as the Elise has failed to loose it's shine.
Again, you are quite right however; with the VX there are options to choose from to address the disappointment (such as a supercharger).
I'd still recommend driving both and making your choice on the core aspects that are important to the OP.
djroadboy said:
Even if its only 300bhp (its chargecooled with water/meth injection isn't it) it just shows that straight line speed isn't everything. I followed it for a few laps before this video started (when he let me past) and it was massively quick in a straight line. Coming out of corners at the same speed it would pull 8-10 car lengths on me on the straights. Once I was in front the difference in corner exit speeds meant it took the full length of the straights for him to catch me back up.
Are NA 2.2 VXs really much lighter? They don't feel much lighter having driven a few. The 2.2 lump is still pretty heavy isn't it?
Dan
Couple of weeks back at Brands GP I was roughly 8 secs a lap faster in my 400bhp Europa vs Richard Chamberlain in his 220(ish)bhp Honda Elise. Power counts!Are NA 2.2 VXs really much lighter? They don't feel much lighter having driven a few. The 2.2 lump is still pretty heavy isn't it?
Dan
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