Lotus Exige V6 SC (Exige (S3?) - New Elise SC
Discussion
otolith said:
Scuffers said:
Yes, I appreciate none of these are the same, and may not float your boat, but the point still stands, and on the road, I know what I would rather be driving round in 99% of the time.
Me too, and it isn't the German barge. But I guess it depends what kind of motoring you do, and whether you want a one car solution. Big power saloons and estates just don't interest me, if I had to spend 50k and come away with an estate car, I'd have a brand new Elise S and whatever used automatic diesel estate you can buy with the change.if your going to follow this route, then for £50+K there are lot's of fast(er) 'toy' cars.....
OlberJ said:
That suggests that only an engine you have to work feels good to drive quickly.
It's not a boring engine, you won't get half way through your favourite hoon and think about putting on Radio 4.
You simply re-adjust to where your brain thinks you need to be to make progress. Like it or not, road driving is not the same as track driving. You'll get more enjoyment more of the time out of this than you would a highly strung 4 pot. I'm not talking about low rev pootling and overtaking without changing gear, that's a bonus but to only use all that torque for such would be a waste.
Going through a series of corners where you have an even spread of torque is so much nicer than a peaky set up that you're chasing all the time.
You tend not to know the roads your on like you would a track so being in the right gear all the time is not as easy. Traffic, weather conditions, condition of the road etc, all mean that flexibility of the engine is something which is not to be scoffed at.
And that's all before you mention the extra that the noise will bring to the party.
Live with it for a while before you condemn this new set up as diesel-like.
you mis understand my postIt's not a boring engine, you won't get half way through your favourite hoon and think about putting on Radio 4.
You simply re-adjust to where your brain thinks you need to be to make progress. Like it or not, road driving is not the same as track driving. You'll get more enjoyment more of the time out of this than you would a highly strung 4 pot. I'm not talking about low rev pootling and overtaking without changing gear, that's a bonus but to only use all that torque for such would be a waste.
Going through a series of corners where you have an even spread of torque is so much nicer than a peaky set up that you're chasing all the time.
You tend not to know the roads your on like you would a track so being in the right gear all the time is not as easy. Traffic, weather conditions, condition of the road etc, all mean that flexibility of the engine is something which is not to be scoffed at.
And that's all before you mention the extra that the noise will bring to the party.
Live with it for a while before you condemn this new set up as diesel-like.
I think the new Exige S will be a sensational road car. If you like sportscars to be compact, light, agile, repsonsive and provide lots of feedback there really isn't anything that can touch it.
It's just that the new engine's flexibility is the least attractive part of the package for me. I'd happily sacrifice a bit low down for a bit more up top but I'll take the car as it comes as it has plenty up top too. Thankfully the flexibility hasn't come at the expense of top-end excitement. Despite what anyone else may think I'm only really enjoying driving when I can extend the car up to the end of the rev range. Crusing around at 4 tenths is necessary for modern congested roads most of the time but it's the 10% of the time when you get the chance to unleash a fast car on public roads that is the bit that I'd be buying a dedicated, purpose built sports car for. M3's and the like do the daily driver job better but don't deliver as much when I most need them to. Hence why they're not for me and also why they're so popular and yes I include the loathsome 911. Better at 90% of driving and consequently why most people prefer them. But it comes at the cost of being truly inspirational for the 10% that I'm buying the car for. Many would say the 911 GT3 series is, but it's just plain not (to me anyway). Frankly I'd rather potter about in a nice, quiet, auto hybrid for the daily grind.
Having such stunning unassisted steering in the Lotus puts it in a totally different league to a 911 or M3 for driving pleasure on its own. If driving pleasure is all that matters to you (there are very few such people about, possibly none) you are shooting yourself in the foot buying a porsche and ignoring the Lotus. But it's their loss. For most people a lardy, numb german car is most likely good enough when the road opens out in front of them.
As for what the Exige S is, it's an inspirational road car that happens to be capable of light track use. Much like many claim the GT3 to offer except the Lotus is usefully cheaper to buy and run, especially if you use it on the track. As such it's a much better proposition than the porsche for those who like track days. If you're wealthy enough to run a GT3 on track days then you have a credible alternative. For everyone else, thank goodness, the Exige continues to offer the best drive to the track and back again car out there.
otolith said:
Scuffers said:
Ok, acid test time, who actuall has placed a deposit on one?
Not me, nor will I do - but that's nothing to do with the car, I simply wouldn't buy another brand new car of any sort, it's a mug's game.Ps. So your saying anybody that buys one is a mug then?
Edited by Scuffers on Friday 6th July 13:30
Not really. I would be a hypocrite if I were going to buy a new Porsche instead, but I'm not going to buy a new anything.
It might be a bit harsh to describe buying a brand new car (*any* brand new car) as a mug's game, after all the new and used markets are entirely co-dependent, but it's an extravagance that personally I couldn't justify. It was nice, I enjoyed it, but worth it? No. And I lost thousands more by doing that, not tens of thousands.
It might be a bit harsh to describe buying a brand new car (*any* brand new car) as a mug's game, after all the new and used markets are entirely co-dependent, but it's an extravagance that personally I couldn't justify. It was nice, I enjoyed it, but worth it? No. And I lost thousands more by doing that, not tens of thousands.
Scuffers said:
OK, so what your saying here is that it's really only valid if you have a multi-car solution?
if your going to follow this route, then for £50+K there are lot's of fast(er) 'toy' cars.....
<sigh>if your going to follow this route, then for £50+K there are lot's of fast(er) 'toy' cars.....
We seem to keep coming back to this.
If the question is "why would people not buy an XXX instead" then the answer is that there are _no_ other cars that do the same thing in the price range. None.
You can't compare it with a second hand GT3 because (a) some people will always buy new and (b) in a couple of years used ones will be cheaper still, and cheaper than a used GT3.
You can't compare it to a honda exige because lots of people don't want to be arsing about changing engines in their cars.
If the question is "who will buy this, and for what" then the answer is that there are plenty of people who either (a) are prepared to use a lotus as a daily driver or (b) have a 2 car setup.
I'm not sure which part of this you don't get.
I'm sure your honda'd car is lovely, but your constant carping about the v6 exige is beginning to smack of defensiveness. Both cars can be great, but yours is far more for the person who wants to "tinker" rather than the one who doesn't.
schrodinger said:
<sigh>
We seem to keep coming back to this.
If the question is "why would people not buy an XXX instead" then the answer is that there are _no_ other cars that do the same thing in the price range. None.
You can't compare it with a second hand GT3 because (a) some people will always buy new and (b) in a couple of years used ones will be cheaper still, and cheaper than a used GT3.
You can't compare it to a honda exige because lots of people don't want to be arsing about changing engines in their cars.
If the question is "who will buy this, and for what" then the answer is that there are plenty of people who either (a) are prepared to use a lotus as a daily driver or (b) have a 2 car setup.
I'm not sure which part of this you don't get.
I'm sure your honda'd car is lovely, but your constant carping about the v6 exige is beginning to smack of defensiveness. Both cars can be great, but yours is far more for the person who wants to "tinker" rather than the one who doesn't.
<sigh>We seem to keep coming back to this.
If the question is "why would people not buy an XXX instead" then the answer is that there are _no_ other cars that do the same thing in the price range. None.
You can't compare it with a second hand GT3 because (a) some people will always buy new and (b) in a couple of years used ones will be cheaper still, and cheaper than a used GT3.
You can't compare it to a honda exige because lots of people don't want to be arsing about changing engines in their cars.
If the question is "who will buy this, and for what" then the answer is that there are plenty of people who either (a) are prepared to use a lotus as a daily driver or (b) have a 2 car setup.
I'm not sure which part of this you don't get.
I'm sure your honda'd car is lovely, but your constant carping about the v6 exige is beginning to smack of defensiveness. Both cars can be great, but yours is far more for the person who wants to "tinker" rather than the one who doesn't.
who mentioned Honda cars? (NOT ME!)
and yes there ate plenty of faster trackday cars then this for less than £50K new, I never mentioned second hand cars.
I do wish people would read and understand before jumping to conclusions....
Scuffers said:
schrodinger said:
<sigh>
We seem to keep coming back to this.
If the question is "why would people not buy an XXX instead" then the answer is that there are _no_ other cars that do the same thing in the price range. None.
You can't compare it with a second hand GT3 because (a) some people will always buy new and (b) in a couple of years used ones will be cheaper still, and cheaper than a used GT3.
You can't compare it to a honda exige because lots of people don't want to be arsing about changing engines in their cars.
If the question is "who will buy this, and for what" then the answer is that there are plenty of people who either (a) are prepared to use a lotus as a daily driver or (b) have a 2 car setup.
I'm not sure which part of this you don't get.
I'm sure your honda'd car is lovely, but your constant carping about the v6 exige is beginning to smack of defensiveness. Both cars can be great, but yours is far more for the person who wants to "tinker" rather than the one who doesn't.
<sigh>We seem to keep coming back to this.
If the question is "why would people not buy an XXX instead" then the answer is that there are _no_ other cars that do the same thing in the price range. None.
You can't compare it with a second hand GT3 because (a) some people will always buy new and (b) in a couple of years used ones will be cheaper still, and cheaper than a used GT3.
You can't compare it to a honda exige because lots of people don't want to be arsing about changing engines in their cars.
If the question is "who will buy this, and for what" then the answer is that there are plenty of people who either (a) are prepared to use a lotus as a daily driver or (b) have a 2 car setup.
I'm not sure which part of this you don't get.
I'm sure your honda'd car is lovely, but your constant carping about the v6 exige is beginning to smack of defensiveness. Both cars can be great, but yours is far more for the person who wants to "tinker" rather than the one who doesn't.
who mentioned Honda cars? (NOT ME!)
and yes there ate plenty of faster trackday cars then this for less than £50K new, I never mentioned second hand cars.
I do wish people would read and understand before jumping to conclusions....
Caterham? Atom? KTM?
And none of these could be a daily driver too.
schrodinger said:
There are plenty of faster trackday cars for less money. But none that you can drive to spa in, do a day, and drive back. Regularly.
Caterham? Atom? KTM?
And none of these could be a daily driver too.
stop being so blinkered, there are more than that.Caterham? Atom? KTM?
And none of these could be a daily driver too.
I am sure Ginetta etc will love you for that!
Scuffers said:
schrodinger said:
There are plenty of faster trackday cars for less money. But none that you can drive to spa in, do a day, and drive back. Regularly.
Caterham? Atom? KTM?
And none of these could be a daily driver too.
stop being so blinkered, there are more than that.Caterham? Atom? KTM?
And none of these could be a daily driver too.
I am sure Ginetta etc will love you for that!
Ginetta g40: cheaper but much, much slower
Ginetta g60: more expensive and still slower (according to Autocar). And not thoroughly engineered yet.
I genuinely can't think of any other car - but happy if you can come up with one?
Scuffers said:
stop being so blinkered, there are more than that.
I am sure Ginetta etc will love you for that!
Scuffers, I am usually firmly on your side on so many subjects, but in this case I do question your stance. Not saying it is right or wrong, just that you say "stop being so blinkered, there are more than that" and then quote Ginetta as an option.I am sure Ginetta etc will love you for that!
Being someone who can only think of Atom, KTM, Ginetta, what else is there ?
Rather than ecking out the discussion, put all the info out there. I for one, would love to know of another car similar to the V6, that does all of the same things as well or better, for less.
Scuffers said:
so caterham etc. do not exist then?
I listed Caterham as one of the options. Along with KTM and Atom.None of those cars can you drive to spa, track, and drive home. (well, ok, you _can_ but you'd have to be seriously deranged. And deaf. And have hair like prof brown from back to the future. And not have to work the next day).
Scuffers said:
yes, but this gets back to the point I made earlier, how many of you have ordered one?
even if it is THE only car like it (which I would argue), is there a (big enough) market for that (and the proof of this is who has ordered one)
So, to be clear, you're now moving the argument because you can't think of any cars that do the same or better for less money?even if it is THE only car like it (which I would argue), is there a (big enough) market for that (and the proof of this is who has ordered one)
I've ordered one. Because I can't think of any cars that do the same or better for less money.
schrodinger said:
So, to be clear, you're now moving the argument because you can't think of any cars that do the same or better for less money?
I've ordered one. Because I can't think of any cars that do the same or better for less money.
Nope, just every one I mention you rule out....I've ordered one. Because I can't think of any cars that do the same or better for less money.
If you have actually put money down on one then I salute you as the first person (on here) to put their money where their mouth is.
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