Europa - didn't this sell a few weeks ago?
Discussion
It's each their own really but the handling on a standard s1 Elise is far better than a standard Europa in my opinion. I drove a 111r the other day and it felt every bit as quick as the Europa and no less comfortable, perhaps a little louder. I'm not for a second saying the Europa is bad car, it just didn't do it for me. I just think it doesn't know what it is and has tried to be all things to all men and as result it just does everything OK. Not sure what I will get to replace it, I could really do with a 2+2 but don't want a 911 so any suggestions gratefully received.
Wootan said:
It's each their own really but the handling on a standard s1 Elise is far better than a standard Europa in my opinion. I drove a 111r the other day and it felt every bit as quick as the Europa and no less comfortable, perhaps a little louder. I'm not for a second saying the Europa is bad car, it just didn't do it for me. I just think it doesn't know what it is and has tried to be all things to all men and as result it just does everything OK. Not sure what I will get to replace it, I could really do with a 2+2 but don't want a 911 so any suggestions gratefully received.
This is what you need, let's hope they build it! The picture from the back looks fantastic.. 
http://www.lotuscars.com/gb/our-cars/future-range/...
Wootan said:
It's each their own really but the handling on a standard s1 Elise is far better than a standard Europa in my opinion. I drove a 111r the other day and it felt every bit as quick as the Europa and no less comfortable, perhaps a little louder. I'm not for a second saying the Europa is bad car, it just didn't do it for me. I just think it doesn't know what it is and has tried to be all things to all men and as result it just does everything OK. Not sure what I will get to replace it, I could really do with a 2+2 but don't want a 911 so any suggestions gratefully received.
The 111R isn't as quick as a Europa, but it's not far off as the power to weight ration isn't much different between the 2. The manic second cam certainly gives it a more hectic feel. The handling on a standard S1 is better than a Standard Europa, as Lotus intentionally made it understeer much more. But even just changing the Geo makes them much closer in handling, add a change of wheels and tyres and it gets closer still. An S1 is always going to be better in certain ways due to 230(ish) kg weight difference, but in some cases this is an advantage for the Europa, making it less skittish IMO.
I've loved owning mine and it's taken me 3 Months to make my mind up about changing it for something more track biased. Not that the Europa struggles on track at all, in fact people are usually shocked at how quick it is, assuming it is more of a GT car.
Anyone who wants to have a go at ownership, mine is now up for sale in the classifieds. I'll be very sorry to see it go.
C43 said:
oh this could be a very long thread if you are arguing the toss between Europa and Elise....
I drive a Europa every day but have a S1 when my Europa is being serviced. When I get in the Elise it does may me smile, they really are amazing cars the the Elise I use has lots of upgrades on it, but really there is only one area were the Elise wins over a well sorted Europa, and that is the roof comes off. If you are not worried by that the Europa is easier to get in, quieter, quicker, slightly better handling and prettier....if you want a quicker car than a Europa then you will need a 260 cup.
C43
C43 Agree with you I loved My Europa, I am not sure they are worth over £20K though but if thats what people are prepared to pay then who am I to say they shouldn't but unless they are lowish milage why pay more than 17K? I don't know how true this is but I did hear things like headlamp pods and clams are tricky to get hold of now the car is out of production.I drive a Europa every day but have a S1 when my Europa is being serviced. When I get in the Elise it does may me smile, they really are amazing cars the the Elise I use has lots of upgrades on it, but really there is only one area were the Elise wins over a well sorted Europa, and that is the roof comes off. If you are not worried by that the Europa is easier to get in, quieter, quicker, slightly better handling and prettier....if you want a quicker car than a Europa then you will need a 260 cup.
C43
When I changed mine it was a either for an Exige or Evora, the Evora won due to it being more refined yet not loosing handeling and where the elise/exige/europa crash and skip over bumps the Evora just takes them in its stride. So if you ever go to change your Europa I can highly recommend the Evora
Hi Toaster, yes I think it will be an Evora when I come to change. I had an NA a while go for a weekend and then an S a few weekends ago. Agree the ride is miles better...however...even the S did not feel as quick as the Europa (yes I know it should be much faster) and on the S the gearchange was just too slow when braking into a roundabout and going down through the box..so for now I will stay with the Europa where the margins seem pretty solid and watch the Evora prices with interest.
C43
C43
The Europa is starting to look like a decent invest in car terms, there is a really nice SE just gone up for sale: http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3883621.htm and it is out at 25K too.
Given how rare the car is I really think it is a future appreciating classic. Most owners that post about the car love it. A few decent mods and the car goes from good to great.
Performance wise I think an Exige driver would have a tough time trying to pull away from one. One thing that is really good about the car is that it is so usable on a daily basis, you can get a decent boot full of shopping in the back with ease.
If you are looking for a Lotus you can truly be happy using on a daily basis you'll be hard pushed to beat the Europa in that respect, unless you jump up to an Evora but then you are lookin at an extra £8k - £10k for the cheapest ones.
Given how rare the car is I really think it is a future appreciating classic. Most owners that post about the car love it. A few decent mods and the car goes from good to great.
Performance wise I think an Exige driver would have a tough time trying to pull away from one. One thing that is really good about the car is that it is so usable on a daily basis, you can get a decent boot full of shopping in the back with ease.
If you are looking for a Lotus you can truly be happy using on a daily basis you'll be hard pushed to beat the Europa in that respect, unless you jump up to an Evora but then you are lookin at an extra £8k - £10k for the cheapest ones.
F0RG3DP15TON said:
The Europa is starting to look like a decent invest in car terms, there is a really nice SE just gone up for sale: http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3883621.htm and it is out at 25K too.
Given how rare the car is I really think it is a future appreciating classic. Most owners that post about the car love it. A few decent mods and the car goes from good to great.
Performance wise I think an Exige driver would have a tough time trying to pull away from one. One thing that is really good about the car is that it is so usable on a daily basis, you can get a decent boot full of shopping in the back with ease.
If you are looking for a Lotus you can truly be happy using on a daily basis you'll be hard pushed to beat the Europa in that respect, unless you jump up to an Evora but then you are lookin at an extra £8k - £10k for the cheapest ones.
You should have included these details in the advert Given how rare the car is I really think it is a future appreciating classic. Most owners that post about the car love it. A few decent mods and the car goes from good to great.
Performance wise I think an Exige driver would have a tough time trying to pull away from one. One thing that is really good about the car is that it is so usable on a daily basis, you can get a decent boot full of shopping in the back with ease.
If you are looking for a Lotus you can truly be happy using on a daily basis you'll be hard pushed to beat the Europa in that respect, unless you jump up to an Evora but then you are lookin at an extra £8k - £10k for the cheapest ones.
(as well as the overhang dimensions etc !) C43 said:
Hi Toaster, yes I think it will be an Evora when I come to change. I had an NA a while go for a weekend and then an S a few weekends ago. Agree the ride is miles better...however...even the S did not feel as quick as the Europa (yes I know it should be much faster) and on the S the gearchange was just too slow when braking into a roundabout and going down through the box..so for now I will stay with the Europa where the margins seem pretty solid and watch the Evora prices with interest.
C43
Understand what you are saying, the gear change is different and not so switch like however the brakes are better and when I was travelling in the rain last week the Evora is planted and solid I did not worry once, just a thought here (don't shoot me) but why go down 'through' the box, brake select the appropriate gear then just accelerate no time is wasted then its just a slightly longer throw, I think the same may happen to the Evora, people will start to see the car in a different light, I don't think it feels as quick in that its quitter and more refined but I suspect that it is every bit as quick and you don't get the delayed kick of the torque coming in at around 3,000 rpm. Just press that sport button......its quick.C43
The Europa prices are solid and may rise in an earlier post I said that they could be like old Fender's the price will just get better although if its a daily drive the miles will just ramp up and spoil the value.
F0RG3DP15TON said:
The Europa is starting to look like a decent invest in car terms, there is a really nice SE just gone up for sale: http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3883621.htm and it is out at 25K too.
Given how rare the car is I really think it is a future appreciating classic. Most owners that post about the car love it. A few decent mods and the car goes from good to great.
Performance wise I think an Exige driver would have a tough time trying to pull away from one. One thing that is really good about the car is that it is so usable on a daily basis, you can get a decent boot full of shopping in the back with ease.
If you are looking for a Lotus you can truly be happy using on a daily basis you'll be hard pushed to beat the Europa in that respect, unless you jump up to an Evora but then you are lookin at an extra £8k - £10k for the cheapest ones.
Sounds like a sensible price for a car that is around 3 years old and 21,000 miles its an SE so had the best interior, Turbo, wheels that car does not need any mods its had all the refinement done at the factory and if its going to be a classic needs to be kept in standard trim Given how rare the car is I really think it is a future appreciating classic. Most owners that post about the car love it. A few decent mods and the car goes from good to great.
Performance wise I think an Exige driver would have a tough time trying to pull away from one. One thing that is really good about the car is that it is so usable on a daily basis, you can get a decent boot full of shopping in the back with ease.
If you are looking for a Lotus you can truly be happy using on a daily basis you'll be hard pushed to beat the Europa in that respect, unless you jump up to an Evora but then you are lookin at an extra £8k - £10k for the cheapest ones.
M5Fan said:
You should have included these details in the advert (as well as the overhang dimensions etc !)
LOL, it's not my car. (no idea what made you think that) just so you know I also laughed at the dimensions stuff in the advert. (as well as the overhang dimensions etc !) 
I just happen to be in the market for a new Lotus, I'm actually looking at the Evora, but this thread has been interesting to follow as I remember 4 years ago the Europa was changing hands for only £16k.
From all the ones on sale the orange looks quality and is the best looking one but the other one is an SE.
Just wanted to add my 2 pence.
F0RG3DP15TON said:
LOL, it's not my car. (no idea what made you think that) just so you know I also laughed at the dimensions stuff in the advert.
I just happen to be in the market for a new Lotus, I'm actually looking at the Evora, but this thread has been interesting to follow as I remember 4 years ago the Europa was changing hands for only £16k.
From all the ones on sale the orange looks quality and is the best looking one but the other one is an SE.
Just wanted to add my 2 pence.
Ok...it was just that your first post was about what many would agree is quite a rare sports car (100~ in the UK, about a dozen or so for the SE advert you linked to). If you'd said , "A Honda Civic is a good second-hand buy" I wouldn't have commented I just happen to be in the market for a new Lotus, I'm actually looking at the Evora, but this thread has been interesting to follow as I remember 4 years ago the Europa was changing hands for only £16k.
From all the ones on sale the orange looks quality and is the best looking one but the other one is an SE.
Just wanted to add my 2 pence.
If you are linked in some way to the seller though, advise them to have a reality check, if the SE price is based on the orange one (who is equally deluded imo) they need to come down by 7-8k.
This thread started about a black Europa at ~20k which an existing Europa owner thought was pricey - there has since been another Europa owner comment that £17k is achievable, which I think is about right. The SE interior does look nice, but performance-wise an upgraded S is equivalent without the higher VED.
I'm watching this thread with great interest. I have a mint, totally stock/unmodded Europa S 225 lux touring with low miles and every factory extra, even fully Venturshield at Lotus Sport so its stone chip free.
I love my car but have owned it 3 years, don't get it out the garage much and have no reason to sell it other than for the sake of change. Its currently hard to value these cars. At £17K I would rather keep it for occasional use and enjoy its likely appreciation in value, however at £20K+ I would maybe let it go and try something different and live with whatever replacement I choose depreciating a little. Lets face it you only get the chance to own so many different cars in a lifetime and as much as I love my Europa, although I don't drive it much we have been togeather a good while now. I'm interested to see what sells and at what price to decide if I'm going to keep mine another year or two or offer it up for sale and move on to something different.
I love my car but have owned it 3 years, don't get it out the garage much and have no reason to sell it other than for the sake of change. Its currently hard to value these cars. At £17K I would rather keep it for occasional use and enjoy its likely appreciation in value, however at £20K+ I would maybe let it go and try something different and live with whatever replacement I choose depreciating a little. Lets face it you only get the chance to own so many different cars in a lifetime and as much as I love my Europa, although I don't drive it much we have been togeather a good while now. I'm interested to see what sells and at what price to decide if I'm going to keep mine another year or two or offer it up for sale and move on to something different.
M5Fan said:
Ok...it was just that your first post was about what many would agree is quite a rare sports car (100~ in the UK, about a dozen or so for the SE advert you linked to). If you'd said , "A Honda Civic is a good second-hand buy" I wouldn't have commented
If you are linked in some way to the seller though, advise them to have a reality check, if the SE price is based on the orange one (who is equally deluded imo) they need to come down by 7-8k.
This thread started about a black Europa at ~20k which an existing Europa owner thought was pricey - there has since been another Europa owner comment that £17k is achievable, which I think is about right. The SE interior does look nice, but performance-wise an upgraded S is equivalent without the higher VED.
Nah mate, not linked to the seller in anyway. If I was I'd recommend he updated his add and take the dimensions out If you are linked in some way to the seller though, advise them to have a reality check, if the SE price is based on the orange one (who is equally deluded imo) they need to come down by 7-8k.
This thread started about a black Europa at ~20k which an existing Europa owner thought was pricey - there has since been another Europa owner comment that £17k is achievable, which I think is about right. The SE interior does look nice, but performance-wise an upgraded S is equivalent without the higher VED.
I guess prices are always going to come down to supply and demand. If people want the car and that's the price then what real choice do they have? I'm betting the 25k ones can be haggled down as you don't get if you don't try.
Ever since Chris Randell started racing one and created a whole load of mods for the car it has just become very popular again.
Tucker1 said:
I'm watching this thread with great interest. I have a mint, totally stock/unmodded Europa S 225 lux touring with low miles and every factory extra, even fully Venturshield at Lotus Sport so its stone chip free.
I love my car but have owned it 3 years, don't get it out the garage much and have no reason to sell it other than for the sake of change. Its currently hard to value these cars. At £17K I would rather keep it for occasional use and enjoy its likely appreciation in value, however at £20K+ I would maybe let it go and try something different and live with whatever replacement I choose depreciating a little. Lets face it you only get the chance to own so many different cars in a lifetime and as much as I love my Europa, although I don't drive it much we have been togeather a good while now. I'm interested to see what sells and at what price to decide if I'm going to keep mine another year or two or offer it up for sale and move on to something different.
If it were my car I'd stick it up for sale when I didn't really need to sell it, that way I could get to see what the market reaction was like and I might be lucky enough to sell it for a few bob more.I love my car but have owned it 3 years, don't get it out the garage much and have no reason to sell it other than for the sake of change. Its currently hard to value these cars. At £17K I would rather keep it for occasional use and enjoy its likely appreciation in value, however at £20K+ I would maybe let it go and try something different and live with whatever replacement I choose depreciating a little. Lets face it you only get the chance to own so many different cars in a lifetime and as much as I love my Europa, although I don't drive it much we have been togeather a good while now. I'm interested to see what sells and at what price to decide if I'm going to keep mine another year or two or offer it up for sale and move on to something different.
People tend to sell cheap when they need to move a car fast, I'm betting the 25k boys aren't in any hurry to sell. Mind you the dealer one is up for 21k and they usually don't like to keep cars long.
F0RG3DP15TON said:
Nah mate, not linked to the seller in anyway. If I was I'd recommend he updated his add and take the dimensions out
I guess prices are always going to come down to supply and demand. If people want the car and that's the price then what real choice do they have? I'm betting the 25k ones can be haggled down as you don't get if you don't try.
Ever since Chris Randell started racing one and created a whole load of mods for the car it has just become very popular again.
You're right, it's about what people are willing to pay. I believe there's an export market to Europe as well, so exchange rates could also be a factor. I guess prices are always going to come down to supply and demand. If people want the car and that's the price then what real choice do they have? I'm betting the 25k ones can be haggled down as you don't get if you don't try.
Ever since Chris Randell started racing one and created a whole load of mods for the car it has just become very popular again.
I mentioned on this thread previously an analogy to people putting houses up at silly prices during the housing boom - it's can be an eye-opener to see what a house has been advertised for compared to what it actually sells for.
Personally, I think if you're in the market for a rare car such as a Europa you will do your homework - I don't think someone will rock up, look at an advert and say "25k, that must be what they're worth, where do I sign?"
Here are a few more:
http://www.ooyyo.com/used-lotus-Europa+S-italy-ven...
http://www.ooyyo.com/used-lotus-Europa+S-italy-pad...
http://www.ooyyo.com/used-lotus-Europa+S-italy-san...
Any wonder the UK cars are selling outside the mainland, the above make the cars here look like a bargin.
http://www.ooyyo.com/used-lotus-Europa+S-italy-ven...
http://www.ooyyo.com/used-lotus-Europa+S-italy-pad...
http://www.ooyyo.com/used-lotus-Europa+S-italy-san...
Any wonder the UK cars are selling outside the mainland, the above make the cars here look like a bargin.
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