Europa - didn't this sell a few weeks ago?

[Boggy]

Boggy said:

The Europa is a future classic as is the 2 11 very limited numbers and both cracking car's driven both. I have a 2 11 which I intend to keep, may buy a Evora or an Exige s too at some point

Boggy

[F0RG3DP15TON]

That's another Europa S up for sale now: http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3893454.htm

23K, looks like they are all going to be hovering around this price point now.

[M5Fan]

Wootan said:

Good Europa's do sell for 20k + at a dealers not sure how well they sell privately. It will be very interesting to see how the values are affected when Evora's get to 25k which I reckon will happen in the next 12 months as they're already touching 30; I know where my money would go!

Will be interesting to see what happens...£32k, 15k miles from a dealer: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3859704.htm

Is this anyone on here, this is lovely: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3567631.htm

[Toaster]

F0RG3DP15TON said:

That's another Europa S up for sale now: http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3893454.htm

23K, looks like they are all going to be hovering around this price point now.

Now call me Picky, but the advert is claiming that it has an SE interior.........nope its not what it actually appears to be is a part Lux touring interior the door sills are standard no push to start and no leather on the dash which a full lux touring has, I am not saying its not a nice finish but its not SE, it has a similar interior my old car......that being a part Lux pack.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-reviews/lotus-europa-...

An SE interior all leathered up..... http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/drives/search-results...


Edited to say this one has the full S Lux touring http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3686860.htm

I know i'm being pedantic and picky but it should be described as what it actually is (will I get flamed for this?)

Edited by Toaster on Thursday 10th May 17:41

[M5Fan]

How do the Europa and Evora compare? I hadn't really considered an Evora thinking they would be too much, if they're steadily coming down though they may soon be within reach.

Is the Evora in a different league? Obviously I can see the running costs being more...there's a lot more supply though compared to the Europa, there appear to be loads to choose from.

[fatwomble]

M5Fan said:

How do the Europa and Evora compare? I hadn't really considered an Evora thinking they would be too much, if they're steadily coming down though they may soon be within reach.

Is the Evora in a different league? Obviously I can see the running costs being more...there's a lot more supply though compared to the Europa, there appear to be loads to choose from.

The Evora is a very different car. Not driven one so I can't comment fully.

[C43]

Driven both. Europa feels quicker, more focused. Evora slightly bigger, better ride and easier to drift around. Biggest difference is gearchange, Europa great, Evora rubbish. (now I will get flamed

C43

[M5Fan]

C43 said:

Driven both. Europa feels quicker, more focused. Evora slightly bigger, better ride and easier to drift around. Biggest difference is gearchange, Europa great, Evora rubbish. (now I will get flamed

C43

What's the issue with the gearchange, is it a Toyota gearbox - I would have thought it would be like a rifle-bolt action, or is it only Honda who can make them like that?

fatwomble - I'd be interested to hear how the sale of yours is going, have you had many offers? I noticed the red one (black wheels) has sold.

[C43]

The one in the Europa is the Vauxhall unit and is good IMO.

C43

[fatwomble]

M5Fan said:

What's the issue with the gearchange, is it a Toyota gearbox - I would have thought it would be like a rifle-bolt action, or is it only Honda who can make them like that?

fatwomble - I'd be interested to hear how the sale of yours is going, have you had many offers? I noticed the red one (black wheels) has sold.

I have had loads of interest with various offers of PX and people wanting to come to view. I am meeting a gentleman who wants to PX his Honda'd Elise, so if we are both happy with what we see, the deal should be done.

[Toaster]

M5Fan said:

How do the Europa and Evora compare? I hadn't really considered an Evora thinking they would be too much, if they're steadily coming down though they may soon be within reach.

Is the Evora in a different league? Obviously I can see the running costs being more...there's a lot more supply though compared to the Europa, there appear to be loads to choose from.

Just thinking how to answer this, because the driving experience is down to personal perception, they are both good cars both as they say Lotus DNA everything you read about the Evora is true and if we are not careful another missed classic by the masses.

The Europa is/was not everyones idea of a modern tourer, we know the interior is the same dimensions as the elise/exige it is a little softer certainly than the exige and has additional sound proofing and some extra trim. Originally the car had a lot of criticism it was not the car the press wanted and some on here made harsh comments and clearly the masses did not warm to it with only 450 ish sold.

Having said that I loved the Europa as an everyday car, some asked how i put up with it e.g. noise and getting in/out well I am supple enough and enjoyed the feedback / engine noise and drive ability of the car the boot can take a flight bag and a PC rucksack and with the 'hamster' cheeks a bit more could also be added. The down side was the crashing and skipping over bumps and you have to be mindful in the wet of what you are driving. If you have a female passanger and they are dressed up for an evening out you had better make sure the door sill is clean, don't get me wrong the driving experience is good for the driver.

The Evora has a grown up interior modern styling and a nice leather dash, has instruments that you would expect on a modern car is it slower than a Europa? no I would not say it is, in fact its smooth V6 power all the way through no sudden acceleration or flatspot that has been mentioned, it this smooth acceleration I think that is mistaken for the Evora being 'slower' along with how refined the cabin is, don't get me wrong the howl of the V6 is fantastic particuarly with the later exhausts but its not as manic as the Europa 4 pot its just refined. The Brakes are 100 x better solid firm and secure you know you will stop and out brake a Europa! The steering I reckon is on par with my Caterham and that is saying a lot, the press have raved over it I would say you get almost as much feedback and its telepathic it really is that good. Another criticism of the Europa is the engine vibration at certain speeds when slowing no such issue with the Evora.

I had a 130 mile journey last week in appalling rain the car felt solid and planted compared to the Europa, Lotus have spent a lot of money developing this car it shows, it shows in the handling the refinement and performance and as an every day car it is liked by the passenger my Wife liked the Europa but loves the Evora. If anyone is going to upgrade from an Elise/Europa/Exige you won't be disappointed.

Just thought the comments about the gear change Lotus have done an upgrade on the linkage so don't be too harsh untill you know you have tried one, the gear throw is still longer than the Europa but what the heck I don't think its any longer than a Golf!


Oh and the price......worth every penny, the maintenance costs do not seem that high except the rear tyres and they can be brought for 1/2 the price quoted if you shop around and they last a little longer if your not hooning around :-)

Edited by Toaster on Friday 11th May 20:23

Edited by Toaster on Friday 11th May 20:28

[M5Fan]

Toaster said:

Just thinking how to answer this, because the driving experience is down to personal perception, they are both good cars both as they say Lotus DNA everything you read about the Evora is true and if we are not careful another missed classic by the masses.

The Europa is/was not everyones idea of a modern tourer, we know the interior is the same dimensions as the elise/exige it is a little softer certainly than the exige and has additional sound proofing and some extra trim. Originally the car had a lot of criticism it was not the car the press wanted and some on here made harsh comments and clearly the masses did not warm to it with only 450 ish sold.

Having said that I loved the Europa as an everyday car, some asked how i put up with it e.g. noise and getting in/out well I am supple enough and enjoyed the feedback / engine noise and drive ability of the car the boot can take a flight bag and a PC rucksack and with the 'hamster' cheeks a bit more could also be added. The down side was the crashing and skipping over bumps and you have to be mindful in the wet of what you are driving. If you have a female passanger and they are dressed up for an evening out you had better make sure the door sill is clean, don't get me wrong the driving experience is good for the driver.

The Evora has a grown up interior modern styling and a nice leather dash, has instruments that you would expect on a modern car is it slower than a Europa? no I would not say it is, in fact its smooth V6 power all the way through no sudden acceleration or flatspot that has been mentioned, it this smooth acceleration I think that is mistaken for the Evora being 'slower' along with how refined the cabin is, don't get me wrong the howl of the V6 is fantastic particuarly with the later exhausts but its not as manic as the Europa 4 pot its just refined. The Brakes are 100 x better solid firm and secure you know you will stop and out brake a Europa! The steering I reckon is on par with my Caterham and that is saying a lot, the press have raved over it I would say you get almost as much feedback and its telepathic it really is that good. Another criticism of the Europa is the engine vibration at certain speeds when slowing no such issue with the Evora.

I had a 130 mile journey last week in appalling rain the car felt solid and planted compared to the Europa, Lotus have spent a lot of money developing this car it shows, it shows in the handling the refinement and performance and as an every day car it is liked by the passenger my Wife liked the Europa but loves the Evora. If anyone is going to upgrade from an Elise/Europa/Exige you won't be disappointed.

Just thought the comments about the gear change Lotus have done an upgrade on the linkage so don't be too harsh untill you know you have tried one, the gear throw is still longer than the Europa but what the heck I don't think its any longer than a Golf!


Oh and the price......worth every penny, the maintenance costs do not seem that high except the rear tyres and they can be brought for 1/2 the price quoted if you shop around and they last a little longer if your not hooning around :-)

Edited by Toaster on Friday 11th May 20:23

Edited by Toaster on Friday 11th May 20:28

thanks, interesting to read about the Evora...they need to come down a bit more for me yet! What do you think of this Europa, roughly what does the 225 upgrade cost?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3902354.htm

Edited by M5Fan on Monday 14th May 18:45

Edited by M5Fan on Monday 14th May 18:46

[C43]

I am not sure about the brakes. I drove a new Evora and thought the (new) brakes magic. Then put a new set of discs and pads on my Europa, rather than the set that had done 4 trackdays and hey presto, great brakes again. Either will pull enough g to make you feel sick..

C43

[randy]

Evora and Europa are very different animals, weight being the biggest factor. I really like both cars and if I had the dough I would run an Evora as my day to day car (to many years of driving Elise variants to get fed up clambering in and out). The Europa is light and agile in a way the the Evora will never be but then the Evora has a beautiful steering feel and friendly handling (read, great at copious amounts of controllable oversteer) and a more modern feel to it inside.

[F0RG3DP15TON]

Well that looks like the orange one has been sold now.

Lovely motor

[Toaster]

[quote=M5Fan]


thanks, interesting to read about the Evora...they need to come down a bit more for me yet! What do you think of this Europa, roughly what does the 225 upgrade cost?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3902354.htm


Looking at the advert, it is a standard Europa S, so from the pictures it has clear rear glass and rear 1/4 glass rather than smoked, in addition to the upgrade (unsure of the cost but a dealer could advise) would be the cross drilled brake discs. Having said that the car is up for 'offer' so maybe find out the cost of an upgrade and make an offer.

[vxah]

I would not bother with the 225 upgrade as it does not really cure the mid range flat spot these cars suffer from. With a Milltek I did show 237 bhp on the rollers at Castle sports cars but, the big dip around 3400 rpm was clear to see and feel. It seems the only way to improve the power is with a new management system.... That said MMG are working on some new software and i think Courtenay sport may have software by now?

[M5Fan]

vxah said:

I would not bother with the 225 upgrade as it does not really cure the mid range flat spot these cars suffer from. With a Milltek I did show 237 bhp on the rollers at Castle sports cars but, the big dip around 3400 rpm was clear to see and feel. It seems the only way to improve the power is with a new management system.... That said MMG are working on some new software and i think Courtenay sport may have software by now?

I've read about the flat-spot on the original cars...I thought the 225 upgrade fixed this though, is that not the case then?

[vxah]

Unfortunately it's not the case at all. I drove a 225 at the Cardiff dealer and it was really bad so i left it... Drove another one at Norwich and it was not as bad but i could feel it... Bought that one even though on a bad day a passenger might ask why you lifted just then? Not me, just the car! Seen a few dyno plots and it sticks out like a sore thumb, even on a stock 197hp.

Have binned the Lotus ecu now and all is smooth...

[pac1uk]

Hi,
What ECU have you replaced the Lotus one with?

How tunable and any issues getting immobiliser to work with new ECU?

Thanks.
Paul.