It's all good fun, I know if I was buying I would be doing all I can to justify why a car should be cheaper. Likewise as the potential seller of something with rarity value that I don't need to sell I'm obviously offering reasons to justify higher prices.

It's all sport and we all want the best deal for ourselves. It's the same as how we deal with stuff in business. Nobody takes any offense there, its just best practice to drive the best deal.

I like a lively debate and understand both sides of the argument. I take no offence at people trying to bid the value of my car or any other Europa down. Any offer is better than none, even the ridiculous. I just won't accept it. Its good to hear everyone's opinions and ultimately I only have to sell for a price I'm happy with.

Didn't mention practical in my last post, I said well equipped. I don't think anyone who's either been on a run or on track with me would be in any doubt about how much of a drivers car the Europa is.

I find it weird when people who don't particularly fancy a car seem to spend so much time trying to convince others that their opinion is right. However if you'd prefer to pay more for a lower powered Exige that is three years older, that's your choice, I know which would be more comfortable on the road and quicker on track.

Nitron fast road shocks, TD 1.2 wheels and an Exige road geo

Yes, faster than a n/a and quicker than many Exige S, although some of that could be down to track experience of the driver.

Most people have been shocked at how quick it goes round track, I have heard the comment about how they expected it to be much slower as it was supposed to be a GT wasn't it. This is partly why it failed, Lotus trying to sell it as a GT when it wasn't. But this is why it makes a lot of sense at £18K for something like a 2007 S or more if it's newer, higher speced or an SE. It is more refined on road and still great on track. A GT it isn't though, an Evora would be the best bet for anyone who wants something much more refined, but still wants a Lotus.

The way I see it is:

If you are a Europa owner and not in a hurry to sell your motor on then stick it up for sale at £20k+ it is clear from the amount of attention this thread is getting that there are plenty of people looking for one. Sooner or later they are either going to have to stump up the cash or buy something else. It just a matter of who can hold out longest, the seller or the buyer, in the case of the Europa I would say it isn't really loosing money now so buyers can afford to hold on for as long as a year and have nothing to worry about.

If you are looking to buy a Europa just go out and buy the one you can afford now, if you can't quite afford it, then just wait a bit longer and save a bit more cash and then buy one. They are really good cars and you could drive it for a couple of years and potentially loose nothing in depreciation.

I also don't know why people are comparing its current price to potentially buying an Evora when its price drops a bit more. The two cars are completely different. If you want a Europa why would you want an Evora and vice versa. I personally can't see the Evora dropping down very quickly now, it's been hanging about the £30k+ mark now for nearly a year. An Evora will probably have to be about 5 years old before it gets close to £25k.

Also given the fact that the cars sell for way more in the rest of Europe, if no one buys them here then people from across the continent will and they will just become even more rare in this country. I believe there are currently under 100 Europas in the UK now, so very rare indeed.

People are comparing it to an Evora because the Evora is the car the Europa was marketed as.

Those who've tried the Europa expecting it to take on and beat the Cayman as a tourer, and come away disappointed because it's cramped, noisy and relatively impractical, are a lot more likely to find something appealing in the Evora.

Europa is a good car - a less lairy looking Exige that's every bit as quick and just as much fun. It's also a lot easier to get in and out, for those of us with bad backs!!

Looks are a bit iffy, but they look nice in the right colours. As for the comparisons with the VX (not particularly on this thread, but it often comes up when prices are mentioned), and the price difference, it's a far newer car, the interior is a helluva lot nicer, and I know which one I'd rather be driving.

The orange one is lovely, and easily looks as good, if not better, than most other Elise variants (it's still not as well resolved as the S1 though!). Wonder how much it went for in the end:

http://pistonheads.com/sales/3858480.htm

Same here. I like the Europa. I like the Evora. (..but which one is better..?)

Ask me in a few years time and hopefully I can tell you .

Actually if Europas do drift up in price over the next few of months I'm going to start considering S2 Exiges instead I think (NA rather than S).

So I don't discount non-225 cars when looking at europas to buy, I'm wondering about the cost of getting the 225 upgrade (or similar) applied. I presume the lotus ecu upgrade is the recommended route - bell & colville recently quoted me just over £1k inc vat for spark plugs plus ECU including fitting (and another £1k inc vat for the cross-drilled discs including fitting) - are their prices typical, or are there places which can do the lotus ECU/plugs cheaper?

I presume also that there's not much in the way of alternatives to the lotus ECU upgrade? I see there is a superchips upgrade, but guess that might be a bit riskier or results not as good? I've also read threads saying thorney doesn't offer their base ecu remap any more. Any other options?

More power and a far better map (well a choice of maps I imagine), but totting up the numbers that's looking like getting on for near £3k inc VAT so a little bit more of an expensive route

To say the Europa is much easier to live than an Exige is stretching things in my opinion. Ive spent time in both cars and owned a Europa for a year; its better no doubt, but still pretty harsh. Spend 3k on ECU upgrade 1k on suspension 1k on wheels and tyres thats Exige S money and nearly Evora money. My point still remains its a good compromise between the track and road but the other two cars are better suited to the track and road respectively.