S1 Project Build: Elise GT Widebody
Discussion
not remotely interested in whether or not I like the final look or effect on an elise to be honest....its the craftmanship that's exciting.
frank have you built the body for your lunatic machine? did you use a similar process? would love to see some pics....building a shell out of foam etc just strikes me as really really hard to get perfect and yours looks like its finished beautifully as well.
frank have you built the body for your lunatic machine? did you use a similar process? would love to see some pics....building a shell out of foam etc just strikes me as really really hard to get perfect and yours looks like its finished beautifully as well.
Scrambled said:
AyBee said:
Don't worry, everyone who's seen both threads can see that Scrambled is only trying to get a reaction out of you! Unfortunately, for him, you appear to be over the age of 12. Looking forward to the end result 
At the age of 12, I had a poster of an Esprit on my wall. Since then, I have always liked the purity of the Lotus aesthetics and bought an S1 a good few years back that I still own and cherish.. There is a place for pumped up Lotus aesthetics though, which I thought were well considered in the Reverie Exige S2.
That car took a pasting on here, to the point where the OP stopped posting. Hwever, in this case Reverie had only altered the form of the exige in certain areas, predominantly arches and wing.
Ronin's Exige also worked as a pumped up look, albeit there were parts I did not like; the rear wing and some of the mesh parts. However, it was still predominantly Lotus.
This S1 in my opinion and it is only my opinion, does look like it's had a chav body kit added and not been carefully considered. The sills I have already mentioned and the proportions on the rear clam are 'clunky' at best.
Instead of sugfesting i am 12, try responding to my comments and we'll have a discussion about this.
AyBee said:
If you provided comments as above, I don't think anyone would mind, the OP is doing it because he wants to, he's not looking for acceptance before he does it. Instead, you're jumping on every comment that likes it, and putting it down. In the space of 5 different posters, you'd stated you didn't like it 3 times which says it all.
I posted again and then again because my post were taken as invalid without even a reasonable response. For the record, at my age, I generally don't troll and therefore don't expect the FRO response.
MacLotus said:
I agree. The craftsmanship is phenomenal. Please share more 'bodywork' magic Frank. I don't mind your work as it provides great teaching material. Just kidding Frank... Who loves ya buddy?
The process is referred to as moldless composite (fiberglass or CF). Create your mold with foam, glass over it, and then remove the foam (if you can). In this case, easy to remove from the back side. That particular photo is pink Polystyrene foam (typically used as home insulation). Carves very easily with a hot wire. A little bit of acetone and it will melt from the backside pretty easily.
The liquid foam there is two-part polyurethane foam. Mix part a & b together, wait a few seconds, and it expands to about 30x it's size. Won't carve with a hot wire or melt with acetone, but is easily reduced to crumbs with a wire brush wheel on your drill.
Once shaped, fiberglass is layed up, smoothed by sanding and epoxy filler, and finaled by thick primer and finish. You can take the process one step further and create a mold from this new part, which will allow fast production of duplicate parts. Moldless composite is time consuming and expensive, but for the guy who wants to create one-off parts in his garage... A great way to go.
The toughest part is that the first fender is artistic expression and creativity. Duplicating an exact opposite reflection of the fender on the other side involves measuring, math and contour gauges. Bottom line not as much fun as the first side.
Sculpting foam is actually quite easy and fun. However, different foams have different sanding rates. So as you smooth down a fender with sandpaper, lighter 2lb foam disappears faster than denser polystyrene foam, making the seam were they match up challenging to smooth. Not the end of the world, but easier to make a nice smooth fender if you use similar density foam (or the exact same).
Never use a power sander (except to remove material quickly). Even then, a serrated blade knife works much better on polyethylene foam and a hot knife or wire works best for polystyrene (or styrofoam).
thanks for taking the time to write all that up! Id like to claim in not a complete slouch when it comes to fibreglassing myself - and have made forms out of all sorts of things....but not expanding foam. The only times I've tried to use it for anything its been about as cooperative as a sackful of wet squirrels. I am now tempted to go and make a mess......The process is referred to as moldless composite (fiberglass or CF). Create your mold with foam, glass over it, and then remove the foam (if you can). In this case, easy to remove from the back side. That particular photo is pink Polystyrene foam (typically used as home insulation). Carves very easily with a hot wire. A little bit of acetone and it will melt from the backside pretty easily.
The liquid foam there is two-part polyurethane foam. Mix part a & b together, wait a few seconds, and it expands to about 30x it's size. Won't carve with a hot wire or melt with acetone, but is easily reduced to crumbs with a wire brush wheel on your drill.
Once shaped, fiberglass is layed up, smoothed by sanding and epoxy filler, and finaled by thick primer and finish. You can take the process one step further and create a mold from this new part, which will allow fast production of duplicate parts. Moldless composite is time consuming and expensive, but for the guy who wants to create one-off parts in his garage... A great way to go.
The toughest part is that the first fender is artistic expression and creativity. Duplicating an exact opposite reflection of the fender on the other side involves measuring, math and contour gauges. Bottom line not as much fun as the first side.
Sculpting foam is actually quite easy and fun. However, different foams have different sanding rates. So as you smooth down a fender with sandpaper, lighter 2lb foam disappears faster than denser polystyrene foam, making the seam were they match up challenging to smooth. Not the end of the world, but easier to make a nice smooth fender if you use similar density foam (or the exact same).
Never use a power sander (except to remove material quickly). Even then, a serrated blade knife works much better on polyethylene foam and a hot knife or wire works best for polystyrene (or styrofoam).
Edited by MacLotus on Monday 9th July 13:47
Scrambled said:
AyBee said:
If you provided comments as above, I don't think anyone would mind, the OP is doing it because he wants to, he's not looking for acceptance before he does it. Instead, you're jumping on every comment that likes it, and putting it down. In the space of 5 different posters, you'd stated you didn't like it 3 times which says it all.
I posted again and then again because my post were taken as invalid without even a reasonable response. For the record, at my age, I generally don't troll and therefore don't expect the FRO response.
e then and needed a response to your posts? Not everyone who posts gets a response. Look again at what you wrote...I don't blame MacLotus et al from ignoring them. Do they strike you as posts deserving of a constructive response?Scrambled said:
Looks completely chav and a horrible way to treat a beautiful S1. Shame.
Scrambled said:
Surely you're kidding. the proportions are horrible. the scale of the sills in particular offends, let alone when the have been painted in.
Scrambled said:
It's not really wide body though is it, it looks like a poor body kit.
In my opinion this not an improvement or an advancement but hey, each to their own.
Anyway, this is MacLotus' thread so I'll stop there and look forward to further updates In my opinion this not an improvement or an advancement but hey, each to their own.
AyBee said:
Scrambled said:
AyBee said:
If you provided comments as above, I don't think anyone would mind, the OP is doing it because he wants to, he's not looking for acceptance before he does it. Instead, you're jumping on every comment that likes it, and putting it down. In the space of 5 different posters, you'd stated you didn't like it 3 times which says it all.
I posted again and then again because my post were taken as invalid without even a reasonable response. For the record, at my age, I generally don't troll and therefore don't expect the FRO response.
e then and needed a response to your posts? Not everyone who posts gets a response. Look again at what you wrote...I don't blame MacLotus et al from ignoring them. Do they strike you as posts deserving of a constructive response?Scrambled said:
Looks completely chav and a horrible way to treat a beautiful S1. Shame.
Clearly you are not understanding my thought process; this may be because we are on different wave lengths or you are immature as once again you resort to insults. I too will wait to see how this develops. I am happy to be proved wrong as when this project is finished.
Scrambled said:
Surely you're kidding. the proportions are horrible. the scale of the sills in particular offends, let alone when the have been painted in.
Scrambled said:
It's not really wide body though is it, it looks like a poor body kit.
In my opinion this not an improvement or an advancement but hey, each to their own.
Anyway, this is MacLotus' thread so I'll stop there and look forward to further updates In my opinion this not an improvement or an advancement but hey, each to their own.
very nice indeed, its going to look great...and wide
I always loved that German Elise V6 bi-turbo car, that euhm...ah, Lotus Esthi
which also had the handy flip rear for easy engine access>>
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/thecar/serie...
are you also going to add such rear?
I still have this original brochure at home from that time
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/thecar/serie...
I always loved that German Elise V6 bi-turbo car, that euhm...ah, Lotus Esthi
which also had the handy flip rear for easy engine access>>
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/thecar/serie...
are you also going to add such rear?
I still have this original brochure at home from that time
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/thecar/serie...
MacLotus said:
I've had a few racers tell me that if the tires get wider, a little extra weight on a light car can help traction.
certainly my S2 performs much 'better' from that standpoint with passenger in the front as well.love the look of the Esthi - though was never totally sure about the double front intake.
so its difficult with the S1 I hear...sad.
this website always have some nice S1 Motorsport versions, the cost a lot though...
about 5 S1's for sale here and some race S2, also many other lovely cars, they also sell sometimes classic TVR with V8...mmm jummie
maybe you know them? >>
http://www.wirewheel.com/LOTUS.html
this website always have some nice S1 Motorsport versions, the cost a lot though...
about 5 S1's for sale here and some race S2, also many other lovely cars, they also sell sometimes classic TVR with V8...mmm jummie
maybe you know them? >>
http://www.wirewheel.com/LOTUS.html
MacLotus said:
I'm in the USA. Any S1 over here with a left hand drive is RARE... very rare (maybe 10-12 in the entire country). They're rare here because the S1 is not street legal, so no one really wants one (except for track dedicated use). The few that were imported were set up for SCCA racing, but no SCCA class for the S1 ever became popular... so it's not useable except for track days. Now the belts, seats, fire suppression, etc. are outdated and cause problems during tech inspections for track days. In short, if it can't be driven on the street, and its getting tougher to drive it on tracks, waiting for it to be worth something someday is not in the cards.
Might as well make it a head-turner at car shows and track days (with newer equipment). I might also have a shot at getting it street legal in its new form?
I would add that I drive this car MUCH slower than my other toys. There are no repair parts over here and picking up another S1 to cannibalize would require a trip to the UK, importing the car, etc. Owning an S1 outside the UK is much different than owning one locally (UK).
Are track days really that strict in the US? Might as well make it a head-turner at car shows and track days (with newer equipment). I might also have a shot at getting it street legal in its new form?
I would add that I drive this car MUCH slower than my other toys. There are no repair parts over here and picking up another S1 to cannibalize would require a trip to the UK, importing the car, etc. Owning an S1 outside the UK is much different than owning one locally (UK).
Edited by MacLotus on Thursday 12th July 22:29
We have nothing here for regular trackdays RE regs - just turn up and run whatever.
Certainly no regs on seats etc.
MacLotus said:
Ah yes... Wirewheel. I know Hayes Harris as my car is from there. Many of the MotorSports are RHD vs LHD, but he certainly always has the largest collection over here. And yes, many S1's here are very expensive because there are so very few.
And yes, most tracks are very strict. For seats, they don't accept shoulder straps that go over the seat vs. through the seat. It seems the rule is if you use aftermarket safety equipment, that safety equipment must not be expired (i.e. belts, suppression). In many cases, you're better off not having a race harness (with a exp. date) and only have OE seat belts. Then there's no issue. Porsche clubs are the worst! I saw them drill into a guy's roll bar to ensure the pipe was the proper spec/thickness (on a Cabriolet).
Most clubs take it to extremes, but since I work as an instructor for the local track, I don't get hassled. But if I go to other tracks to run with clubs... my Lotus get's scrutinized. I actually had to remove my roll bar cross-brace (Petty Bar) because there was concern it posed a safety hazzard.
I'm also required to wear Arm Restraints due to the open roof configuration of the Elise. But that's probably what I love most about this car... it's open air cockpit. Had the roof on one day... hated it. Doesn't feel like the same car. Me likes'm topless and floppin' in the wind!
Cheers for that. And yes, most tracks are very strict. For seats, they don't accept shoulder straps that go over the seat vs. through the seat. It seems the rule is if you use aftermarket safety equipment, that safety equipment must not be expired (i.e. belts, suppression). In many cases, you're better off not having a race harness (with a exp. date) and only have OE seat belts. Then there's no issue. Porsche clubs are the worst! I saw them drill into a guy's roll bar to ensure the pipe was the proper spec/thickness (on a Cabriolet).
Most clubs take it to extremes, but since I work as an instructor for the local track, I don't get hassled. But if I go to other tracks to run with clubs... my Lotus get's scrutinized. I actually had to remove my roll bar cross-brace (Petty Bar) because there was concern it posed a safety hazzard.
I'm also required to wear Arm Restraints due to the open roof configuration of the Elise. But that's probably what I love most about this car... it's open air cockpit. Had the roof on one day... hated it. Doesn't feel like the same car. Me likes'm topless and floppin' in the wind!
Edited by MacLotus on Friday 13th July 14:37
Bit I personally don't like about your design is the side air intakes. I don't think they really go with the wider bodywork. Not just your car either - I thought they looked out of place on the S1 GT1 when Lotus raced that - they just look incredibly small/thin and out of proportion with the wider design.
Obviously it would be a lot of work, but would you consider changing those / have you had any similar thoughts? Somewhere in the middle, between S1 and S2 style vents, would look better to my eyes.
Just casual feedback there - obviously I don't expect you to act upon it!!
Looks like a helluva lot of work. Dunno where you find the time.
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