at Are Elise that bad in the wet?
Discussion
SergSC said:
You seem to have completely misunderstood me. I am recounting my experience which happened to me when I was a totally ignorant Noob , admitted at the very start, in the hope that other ignorantsdon't repeat my mistakes. Despite being a noob at the time I was NOT driving aggressively at all, I was being careful , drivimg slower than i would be in a diesel civic, and more nervous than anything else. My mistake 5 years ago opened my eyes and inspired me to improve my skills. The incident can never happen again.
For some incomprehensible reason I seem to have touched a nerve by stating that sport versions are more likely to be spun by noobs than softer versions. You cannot argue with this, but yet persist with strawman arguments.
Thanks for that.For some incomprehensible reason I seem to have touched a nerve by stating that sport versions are more likely to be spun by noobs than softer versions. You cannot argue with this, but yet persist with strawman arguments.
You haven't touched a nerve but made a sweeping, unsupportable statement based on your (admitted) inability to properly control or drive the car.
Poor driver/throttle interface does not make a poor handling car. It just demonstrates the inability of the man/woman controlling the car to drive.
You can spin a base Elise (S1/2) with just 118bhp by being clumsy on wet roundabouts. It's also worth bearing in mind that even though you may not see diesel/oil/whatever on the surface the road surface may still have the co-efficient of friction of an ice-rink.
'Sports' Elises are no more or less than mildly modded Elises: plenty of cars have been modified for track use with far less compliant suspension than Lotus sent out of the factory. Lotus have to sell cars to a far broader church than dedicated track drivers so compromises are to be expected.
Years ago standard advice to noobs was to be careful until they'd got to grips with the balance of the car. Perhaps that should have been the jist of your first post? Instead you chose to question the behaviour of a specious variety of Elise.
And finally, when you do learn to drive the car it has prodigious grip even in the wet. A few years ago someone came on here complaining about the lack of grip his car had in the wet. In those days there were more that bothered to respond - he was told to go and learn to drive!
I'm not so sure 888,s or Yoko,s are considerably worse in wet conditions than any other tyres ...
Yes,limited tread depth will limit water displacement , decreasing speed at which aquaplaning will occur ..
Moreover it is the light weight of the car that increases skittishness in the wet..
...
Quick analogy ... light aircraft get affected by gusts more so than heavy airliners ..
Yes,limited tread depth will limit water displacement , decreasing speed at which aquaplaning will occur ..
Moreover it is the light weight of the car that increases skittishness in the wet..
...
Quick analogy ... light aircraft get affected by gusts more so than heavy airliners ..
Just to add ...
I also drive heavy 44 ton artics ,and driving through deep standing water in a truck is a non event... you just cannot feel it.
Try that in a Lotus and you're a passenger.
Hope that makes sense .. what I'm trying to say is that every vehicle is different in each condition...
Just enjoy and progress slowly ;-)
I also drive heavy 44 ton artics ,and driving through deep standing water in a truck is a non event... you just cannot feel it.
Try that in a Lotus and you're a passenger.
Hope that makes sense .. what I'm trying to say is that every vehicle is different in each condition...
Just enjoy and progress slowly ;-)
All,
Just my opinion so don't bite me please, but when I do manage to prise the Elise keys off the missus I find it balanced and pointable both wet and dry. It does understeer slightly more than I expected an Elise would do but this is the second one I have driven and they were/are both the same, not dull just friendly. Can you push on in the wet? Yes. Can you spin off? Yes of course. Does it feel safe? Yes if you understand what it is telling you.
For those that dont get it try karting in the wet and balance the throttle, it's the same in an Elise.
Cheers,
J
Just my opinion so don't bite me please, but when I do manage to prise the Elise keys off the missus I find it balanced and pointable both wet and dry. It does understeer slightly more than I expected an Elise would do but this is the second one I have driven and they were/are both the same, not dull just friendly. Can you push on in the wet? Yes. Can you spin off? Yes of course. Does it feel safe? Yes if you understand what it is telling you.
For those that dont get it try karting in the wet and balance the throttle, it's the same in an Elise.
Cheers,
J
To the informed driver, few cars are really 'bad' in the wet with the caveat that the tires being used are reasonably capable of running in standing water. Often, high-performance cars are matched to standing-water-hating tires (in part because these types of tires do not impart sufficiently high performance/dry coefficient of friction) and they may require that you mount a separate set for foul weather use. What does this mean? Look out for many R-compound tires (not because of the compound, but they are rarely designed to cope with the wet), Michelin 'Cup' tires, Hoosier tires and their brethren of barely street-legal race tires with a token groove or two to make them street legal.
It doesn't take long to look at a tire, read the literature and decide if you should be driving them in the wet. It's a bit of an IQ test actually. But if you have a steady right foot, any car is wet-worthy so long as the tires are as well.
V
It doesn't take long to look at a tire, read the literature and decide if you should be driving them in the wet. It's a bit of an IQ test actually. But if you have a steady right foot, any car is wet-worthy so long as the tires are as well.
V
Edited by Verde on Thursday 6th December 00:28
Scuffers said:
There a pussycat in the wet...
vimeo.com/15477216
vimeo.com/33092652
Tidy driving. vimeo.com/15477216
vimeo.com/33092652
Nothing they do in the wet is unpredictable IMO.
Can you actually use any of the gears properly in the higher Honda powered cars in the wet without lots of wheelspin? Presume it'd light up the rears in 3rd, what about 4th?
Caterhamfan said:
Mr E said:
I also know of a standard S1 being written off in the wet on the way home after purchase.
A very common occurrence in 1996, the dealer I bought mine from used to advise buyers not to collect them if it was raining 
That was all about pirelli's, they might make good types for ferrari, but they where s
te on an Elise.Hi All,
well I picked up my beloved red 04 111s 16,500 miles on the 13th December, it was / is my 13th car...took my brother in law out for a spin up and down and the thing went sideways on me coming off the M3 Junction 7 roundabout... hit a crash barrier... result is a £7k insurance claim and a nervous wait while they decide if they want to pay for the repair or write it off... I'd had the car 3 days.
It had been raining quite heavily and I probably hit the accelerator way to hard going in to a bend just of the roundabout, I then got everything wrong, hit the brakes hard, the front end mounting the pavement then hitting a crash barrier before spinning round and the back taking a swipe too...
Absolutely gutted when I say the damage but I wasn't quite prepared for a 7k estimate from Specialised Paintwork...still it is an insurance quote.
Just goes to show imho, you have to be careful with these... Seriously considering signing up for car limits course... I've done various searches on line... steer to correct the skid I get, but is it feet off everything or feet on ?...
Just need to be careful in them.
8.
well I picked up my beloved red 04 111s 16,500 miles on the 13th December, it was / is my 13th car...took my brother in law out for a spin up and down and the thing went sideways on me coming off the M3 Junction 7 roundabout... hit a crash barrier... result is a £7k insurance claim and a nervous wait while they decide if they want to pay for the repair or write it off... I'd had the car 3 days.
It had been raining quite heavily and I probably hit the accelerator way to hard going in to a bend just of the roundabout, I then got everything wrong, hit the brakes hard, the front end mounting the pavement then hitting a crash barrier before spinning round and the back taking a swipe too...
Absolutely gutted when I say the damage but I wasn't quite prepared for a 7k estimate from Specialised Paintwork...still it is an insurance quote.
Just goes to show imho, you have to be careful with these... Seriously considering signing up for car limits course... I've done various searches on line... steer to correct the skid I get, but is it feet off everything or feet on ?...
Just need to be careful in them.
8.
Sorry to hear.
Hope you get it fixed or get another one. Do a Car Limits day or similar, it's a great laugh and you'll learn a lot - they're a lot more predictable than you think.
Sorry again, horrible thing to happen, but at least you're not hurt.
Edit: Oops - just noticed you already said Car Limits; definitely!! You'll be surprised at how much you pick up. And if you're anything like me, just how crap a driver you are.
The costs aren't that surprising considering the fact the car is made up of a front and rear clam. Work out the cost of two rear wings, two bumpers, and two front wings on a conventional car, plus paintwork and labour, and you'd be up above that in a heartbeat. Two wings alone on my last car was a grand....
Hope you get it fixed or get another one. Do a Car Limits day or similar, it's a great laugh and you'll learn a lot - they're a lot more predictable than you think.
Sorry again, horrible thing to happen, but at least you're not hurt.
Edit: Oops - just noticed you already said Car Limits; definitely!! You'll be surprised at how much you pick up. And if you're anything like me, just how crap a driver you are.
The costs aren't that surprising considering the fact the car is made up of a front and rear clam. Work out the cost of two rear wings, two bumpers, and two front wings on a conventional car, plus paintwork and labour, and you'd be up above that in a heartbeat. Two wings alone on my last car was a grand....
Edited by pthelazyjourno on Saturday 29th December 03:39
cre8toruk said:
Hi All,
well I picked up my beloved red 04 111s 16,500 miles on the 13th December, it was / is my 13th car...took my brother in law out for a spin up and down and the thing went sideways on me coming off the M3 Junction 7 roundabout... hit a crash barrier... result is a £7k insurance claim and a nervous wait while they decide if they want to pay for the repair or write it off... I'd had the car 3 days.
It had been raining quite heavily and I probably hit the accelerator way to hard going in to a bend just of the roundabout, I then got everything wrong, hit the brakes hard, the front end mounting the pavement then hitting a crash barrier before spinning round and the back taking a swipe too...
8.
I am assuming that previous to the Elise, all you cars had been FWD stuff?well I picked up my beloved red 04 111s 16,500 miles on the 13th December, it was / is my 13th car...took my brother in law out for a spin up and down and the thing went sideways on me coming off the M3 Junction 7 roundabout... hit a crash barrier... result is a £7k insurance claim and a nervous wait while they decide if they want to pay for the repair or write it off... I'd had the car 3 days.
It had been raining quite heavily and I probably hit the accelerator way to hard going in to a bend just of the roundabout, I then got everything wrong, hit the brakes hard, the front end mounting the pavement then hitting a crash barrier before spinning round and the back taking a swipe too...
8.
I always found my VX220 from stock to modified really grippy in the wet and I'd drive it faster in the wet than my old accord (last fwd I had), infact all mid engines cars I've had have been great in the wet and snow. Far more likely to have accidental tail out incidents in an MX5. Being honest you only accidentally have a grippy mid engined car sliding on the road if you are clueless or at warp speed.
There are a lot of clueless drivers out there mind. The number of people on MR2 forums who think you have to put bags of sand in the front to stop under steer is shocking, the reality being they are morons who wind too much lock on and don't use weight transfer / trail braking.. go into a round about with out braking at slow speed wind too much lock on, try to accelerate round the round about to then be suprised it goes straight on.
There are a lot of clueless drivers out there mind. The number of people on MR2 forums who think you have to put bags of sand in the front to stop under steer is shocking, the reality being they are morons who wind too much lock on and don't use weight transfer / trail braking.. go into a round about with out braking at slow speed wind too much lock on, try to accelerate round the round about to then be suprised it goes straight on.
Scuffers said:
I am assuming that previous to the Elise, all you cars had been FWD stuff?
well embarassingly (bad spelling I know) enough know... my first ever car was a 1.3 Ford Capri !...oh sideways driving them were the days and the car before this one was an rx8 again rear wheel and very twitchy in the wet... it could have been a combination of road surface (it was wet) and stupid driver who then panicked and got even more stupid !Got a pregnant father wait for the insurance co....and Xmas just got right in the way...still you live and learn (well you live anyway ! :-))
cre8toruk said:
well embarassingly (bad spelling I know) enough know... my first ever car was a 1.3 Ford Capri !...oh sideways driving them were the days
There's a bit here on polar momenthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_handling#Y...
If the mass is nearer the middle it's both quicker to turn and easier to spin.
Front engine, rear wheel drive less easy to spin, slower to turn
wikipedia said:
In steady-state cornering, front-heavy cars tend to understeer and rear-heavy cars to oversteer, all other things being equal. The mid-engine design seeks to achieve the ideal center of mass, though front-engine design has the advantage of permitting a more practical engine-passenger-baggage layout. All other parameters being equal, at the hands of an expert driver a neutrally balanced mid-engine car can corner faster, but a FR [Front engine Rear drive] layout car is easier to drive at the limit.
wikipedia said:
The rearward weight bias preferred by sports and racing cars results from handling effects during the transition from straight-ahead to cornering. During corner entry the front tires, in addition to generating part of the lateral force required to accelerate the car's center of mass into the turn, also generate a torque about the car's vertical axis that starts the car rotating into the turn. However, the lateral force being generated by the rear tires is acting in the opposite torsional sense, trying to rotate the car out of the turn. For this reason, a car with "50/50" weight distribution will understeer on initial corner entry. To avoid this problem, sports and racing cars often have a more rearward weight distribution. In the case of pure racing cars, this is typically between "40/60" and "35/65".
Edited by saaby93 on Saturday 29th December 21:37
saaby93 said:
Edited by saaby93 on Saturday 29th December 21:37
Anyone else have experience of this type of thing ? Any ideas if I bought the car for 15k will the insurance company write it off or not ?? The estimate is £6932
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